Back to RPL ! (HP50G)

[Marco Polo]

(07-07-2020 01:01 PM)pinkman Wrote:  

(07-07-2020 11:08 AM)Marco Polo Wrote:  I am heavily using USR mode, with the help of the awesome "KEYMAN", from prof. Rautemberg.
IMHO using USR mode is a good way to get a better keyboard on 50g.
I completely reconfigured mine, keeping all the original key assignment and taking advantage of "long press" and "keep shift pressed" features

I suggest, for heavy unit of measure users, to try "UNITMAN", again from prof. Rautenberg

Could you share your user keyboard layout?

Enjoy :-)

[ttw]

(07-07-2020 07:01 AM)franz.b Wrote:  despite the power, ergonomics are not the best in this series of calculators: the useless "HIST", "TOOL" and "SYMB" keys that could easily be menus, the 4 directional keys that occupy six places, the symbols for the inequalities that occupy a place that could be assigned to menus ...
I spend a lot of time browsing the menus and submenus looking for commands. the 48s / x series was significantly better from this point of view.

Much depends on one's usage. I find the SYMB and HIST key quite useful as I do lots of symbolic stuff (and the HIST key allows me to repeat earlier user programs without going to a menu); the TOOL is useful but could be shifted (I mostly use PURGE to remove temporaries and HELP for the few things it has.)

I do wish the STACK stuff (and LIST) was easier to get to though.

[franz.b]

(07-07-2020 04:04 PM)ttw Wrote:  

(07-07-2020 07:01 AM)franz.b Wrote:  despite the power, ergonomics are not the best in this series of calculators: the useless "HIST", "TOOL" and "SYMB" keys that could easily be menus, the 4 directional keys that occupy six places, the symbols for the inequalities that occupy a place that could be assigned to menus ...
I spend a lot of time browsing the menus and submenus looking for commands. the 48s / x series was significantly better from this point of view.

Much depends on one's usage. I find the SYMB and HIST key quite useful as I do lots of symbolic stuff (and the HIST key allows me to repeat earlier user programs without going to a menu); the TOOL is useful but could be shifted (I mostly use PURGE to remove temporaries and HELP for the few things it has.)

I do wish the STACK stuff (and LIST) was easier to get to though.

Of course, each of us has his preferences and habits. But the HIST key is exactly the same as the up arrow key. it's an absolutely useless duplicate, Of course, each of us has his preferences and habits. But the HIST key is exactly the same as the up arrow key. it is an absolutely useless duplication, if it has no other uses unknown to me.

[Carsen]

(07-07-2020 04:32 PM)franz.b Wrote:  Of course, each of us has his preferences and habits. But the HIST key is exactly the same as the up arrow key. it's an absolutely useless duplicate, Of course, each of us has his preferences and habits. But the HIST key is exactly the same as the up arrow key. it is an absolutely useless duplication, if it has no other uses unknown to me.

Not quite. The HIST key activates the interactive stack while in Input forms like TVM or numerical solver.

Also, it is useful in Algebraic mode as you need the HIST key to access entries in the stack while the command line is active.

[ttw]

The Up Arrow does allow one to move up the stack, but the HIST key (at lease as I use it) recalls some stuff even with an empty stack. I'll have to check these out a bit more. I found most of this stuff by experimentation.

[franz.b]

(07-08-2020 01:50 AM)Carsen Wrote:  

(07-07-2020 04:32 PM)franz.b Wrote:  Of course, each of us has his preferences and habits. But the HIST key is exactly the same as the up arrow key. it's an absolutely useless duplicate, Of course, each of us has his preferences and habits. But the HIST key is exactly the same as the up arrow key. it is an absolutely useless duplication, if it has no other uses unknown to me.

Not quite. The HIST key activates the interactive stack while in Input forms like TVM or numerical solver.

Also, it is useful in Algebraic mode as you need the HIST key to access entries in the stack while the command line is active.

interesting features that I did not know, but I still have the doubt that you could put a "HIST" in the function keys at the time of editing, or apply the same functionality to the up arrow key as it is in the 48 series (!)

Quote:The Up Arrow does allow one to move up the stack, but the HIST key (at lease as I use it) recalls some stuff even with an empty stack. I'll have to check these out a bit more. I found most of this stuff by experimentation.

with the empty stack HIST always gives me an error ...

[Marco Polo]

(07-08-2020 01:50 AM)Carsen Wrote:  Not quite. The HIST key activates the interactive stack while in Input forms like TVM or numerical solver.

Also, it is useful in Algebraic mode as you need the HIST key to access entries in the stack while the command line is active.

You are right.
I just checked.
When in input form pressing up arrow just moves to the upper input field, while pressing HIST gives access to interactive stack and makes possible to pick objects from stack to input form.
I never discovered this in 13 year of use....

Thank you for the hint!

[pinkman]

(07-07-2020 02:25 PM)Marco Polo Wrote:  

(07-07-2020 01:01 PM)pinkman Wrote:  Could you share your user keyboard layout?

Enjoy :-)

Many thanks!

[pinkman]

(07-08-2020 08:12 AM)Marco Polo Wrote:  

(07-08-2020 01:50 AM)Carsen Wrote:  Not quite. The HIST key activates the interactive stack while in Input forms like TVM or numerical solver.

Also, it is useful in Algebraic mode as you need the HIST key to access entries in the stack while the command line is active.

You are right.
I just checked.
When in input form pressing up arrow just moves to the upper input field, while pressing HIST gives access to interactive stack and makes possible to pick objects from stack to input form.
I never discovered this in 13 year of use....

Thank you for the hint!

So I understand the usefulness of the HIST key, but not of the partial hist. functions of the UP key (even if it seems natural to "browse" the history with the arrows).

[Marco Polo]

(07-08-2020 09:51 AM)pinkman Wrote:  So I understand the usefulness of the HIST key, but not of the partial hist. functions of the UP key (even if it seems natural to "browse" the history with the arrows).

As a matter of fact when there is no command line both HIST and Arrow-Up act in the same way.
Whe command line is active HIST give access to stack.
Imho the Arrow-Up was kept for compatibility reason and for old rpl users.

I am being convinced that i should study better the 50g keyboard as it might be designed better than i thought....

[franz.b]

Quote:Imho the Arrow-Up was kept for compatibility reason and for old rpl users.

however there is a wasted key ...

[pinkman]

(07-08-2020 12:29 PM)Marco Polo Wrote:  I am being convinced that i should study better the 50g keyboard as it might be designed better than i thought....

Yes I’ve been used to it quicker than I thought, and even the menu hierarchy (behind the PRG key). But I must say that the 48G(X), 35S and the Prime are much better.

[ramon_ea1gth]

(07-08-2020 01:50 AM)Carsen Wrote:  

(07-07-2020 04:32 PM)franz.b Wrote:  Of course, each of us has his preferences and habits. But the HIST key is exactly the same as the up arrow key. it's an absolutely useless duplicate, Of course, each of us has his preferences and habits. But the HIST key is exactly the same as the up arrow key. it is an absolutely useless duplication, if it has no other uses unknown to me.

Not quite. The HIST key activates the interactive stack while in Input forms like TVM or numerical solver.

Also, it is useful in Algebraic mode as you need the HIST key to access entries in the stack while the command line is active.

I agree: after coming from my HP48GX, I had the same feelings about the HIST key. But I discovered that, e.g., when editing a user-RPL program, while in the editor, it is easy to go to the stack to pick stuff to be inserted using HIST, something not possible with the arrow-up key. So it is more useful that it looks.
Of course, from my personal taste, I prefer some choices of the key mapping in the HP48GX vs HP50g:
- direct [CST] key vs [LS][CUSTOM];
- [LS][RAD] vs [MODE]+[select angle mode with arrows];
- [RS][ANGLE] (labelled on keyboard) vs. [ALPHA][RS][6] (no angle label). Fortunately, this went back in the HP-Prime.

But these are minor issues when comparing screens, speed (for practical purposes) and the symbolic engine in the HP50g, consistent with the RPL/RPN implementation. I also added some software from http://www.software49g.gmxhome.de/ that is still maintained with updates and it is a nice and useful machine for me as I started in the RPL/RPN world. It uses standard AAA batteries and can be powered with the USB cable. It has a huge background in terms of firmware, software and usability from years of development. And the HP48GX and mainly the HP49 series manuals are a great resource to review matter.

[MattGreer]

Is there a way to recall a variable to the stack and go directly to edit like there was with the 48GX? Took six keypresses to get into a variable/program and save it. Now it's seven keypresses, editing notwithstanding of course. Doesn't seem like a lot but for some reason in my mind it's a bigger pain now.

Can I just take the guts of a 50g and stuff it into my 48GX and use the 48GX keyboard?

(07-04-2020 04:45 PM)pinkman Wrote:  Yes, the “Enter” key is located in the place of the “+” key, and the “÷” is on a small key. Strange.

I HATE HATE HATE THIS.

Why no one realized that you use the enter key very often, and putting it at the very bottom of the calculator instead of in the middle doubles the distance you have to travel every time. Shoulda been in the middle. Yeah, sounds whiny, but I'm allowed to have my opinion.

There's definitely a lack of familiarity with the 50g for me right now, but I'm so much faster with the 48GX. Maybe over time and with a bit of customization my key speed with the 50g will increase.

Why require a left-shift to get to the CST menu?? I mentioned this in another thread. There's a workaround of some kind.

Also, if you haven't done this yet, follow this guide and you will be able to connect and transfer files from your 48GX and 50g on a Windows 10 PC. I just got done figuring out how to do this and have everything come across with minimal glitches.

[MattGreer]

(07-05-2020 02:32 AM)DanO Wrote:  Also this post by John is relevant about ASCII import/export:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/...oZFVECTxpY

Man, where have you been the past few days???

[John Keith]

(08-30-2020 11:48 PM)MattGreer Wrote:  Is there a way to recall a variable to the stack and go directly to edit like there was with the 48GX? Took six keypresses to get into a variable/program and save it. Now it's seven keypresses, editing notwithstanding of course. Doesn't seem like a lot but for some reason in my mind it's a bigger pain now.

If the variable name is visible in the VAR menu, press right-shift then the variable name to recall it to the stack. then press the down-arrow key to edit.

Note: Algebraic expressions and matrices will be edited in the Equation Writer or Matrix Writer respectively. To edit them as ordinary stack objects, press left-shift down-arrow.

Another related keyboard shortcut: in the VAR menu, pressing right-shift down-arrow will show the full names of all 6 visible variables along with the first few characters of each. In other menus only the full names are displayed. This can be handy to see the proper spelling of a command or to differentiate between variables whose names share the first several letters.

[MattGreer]

(08-31-2020 12:17 AM)John Keith Wrote:  If the variable name is visible in the VAR menu, press right-shift then the variable name to recall it to the stack. then press the down-arrow key to edit.

Note: Algebraic expressions and matrices will be edited in the Equation Writer or Matrix Writer respectively. To edit them as ordinary stack objects, press left-shift down-arrow.

Another related keyboard shortcut: in the VAR menu, pressing right-shift down-arrow will show the full names of all 6 visible variables along with the first few characters of each. In other menus only the full names are displayed. This can be handy to see the proper spelling of a command or to differentiate between variables whose names share the first several letters.

Super helpful! Thank you!

[David Hayden]

It should go without saying, but switch to RPN mode. I believe that algebraic mode is the factory default.

Get an SD card (2GB or less) for backups and to store every program ever written . I use a 128M card because the calculator starts faster with it.

As someone else suggested, get HPUserEdit to create programs on a PC. Note that the menus are in Spanish by default but there is a way to change them to english.

Debug4x is great for SysRPL programming.

For real fun, consider HPGCC. This lets your write C code and run it natively on the 50g. It's about 100 times bigger but also 100 times faster, and you can always store the "real" program on the SD card and create a small stub on the calc that loads the program and evaluates it.

The 184 page "users manual" is more like a quick reference guide. Don't try to use it to learn the calculator. Use the much larger "users guide" or the AUR.

[MattGreer]

For whatever reason I tried to use HPUserEdit on Windows 10 Pro (64-bit) and the program locked itself to the bottom of my screen with just the top 1/4 showing. I could click on it, close it, nothing. I had to go into the Task Manager to kill it. Dunno what happened.

[pinkman]

(09-02-2020 08:23 PM)David Hayden Wrote:  It should go without saying, but switch to RPN mode. I believe that algebraic mode is the factory default.

Get an SD card (2GB or less) for backups and to store every program ever written . I use a 128M card because the calculator starts faster with it.

As someone else suggested, get HPUserEdit to create programs on a PC. Note that the menus are in Spanish by default but there is a way to change them to english.

Debug4x is great for SysRPL programming.

For real fun, consider HPGCC. This lets your write C code and run it natively on the 50g. It's about 100 times bigger but also 100 times faster, and you can always store the "real" program on the SD card and create a small stub on the calc that loads the program and evaluates it.

The 184 page "users manual" is more like a quick reference guide. Don't try to use it to learn the calculator. Use the much larger "users guide" or the AUR.

RPL: done
SD Card: done

All other items: todo!!

Thanks, great advices.