Engineering achievements

[Hlib]

Have you ever heard of the most reliable and terrible complexes with SS-18 (Satan) ballistic solid-fuel missiles? After 50 years of conservation, the missile is activated within 60 seconds and is ready to hit a target anywhere in the world. Any objects are destroyed without warning when approaching the launcher at a distance closer than 100 meters.
Currently, there are at least 300 units of these complexes with the memory of about 500 geographical objects around the world. The total power of all warheads is approximately 1500...2500 megatons in TNT equivalent. Some of the control systems were developed in my city at the enterprise, which is now sold to a foreign investor.
I do not know which corporation now owns these complexes, but they are located in the European part of the former USSR on the territory of three independent states. Are there any analogues of these complexes in the world?
Also, I never cease to admire several achievements of mankind: the journey of astronauts to the Moon, Voyager Space Project, HP-41 calculator, fx-9860gii-2 with C.BASIC and the Airbus A220 Bombardier passenger liner.

[toml_12953]

(02-05-2021 08:35 PM)Hlib Wrote:  Have you ever heard of the most reliable and terrible complexes with SS-18 (Satan) ballistic solid-fuel missiles? After 50 years of conservation, the missile is activated within 60 seconds and is ready to hit a target anywhere in the world. Any objects are destroyed without warning when approaching the launcher at a distance closer than 100 meters.

Is there not a fence around the launcher? I can imagine some innocent person just out for a stroll and suddenly - ZAP!

Speaking of Soviet armament, I remember seeing a MIG turned over to us by a defecting pilot. It used vacuum tubes (valves to my English friends) rather than solid state components. At first we were all laughing about outdated Russian (we Americans used the term Soviet interchangeably with Russian) technology. Then we realized: After a nuclear weapon went off, American planes would crash when the electromagnetic pulse (EMP) hit them. Russian planes would still be flying as if nothing happened! We quickly designed better shielding for our sensitive components.

[Maximilian Hohmann]

Hello!

(02-05-2021 08:35 PM)Hlib Wrote:  After 50 years of conservation, the missile is activated within 60 seconds and is ready to hit a target anywhere in the world.

It would be interesting to see how many of them actually still work after being in store for 50 years. And even if their solid fuel still ignites, how many of them would actually be able to fly roughly in the direction of the programmed target... These doubts of mine do not only apply to Soviet ballistic missiles, but those of all others as well. I know that from my professional experience with (ciivilian) aircraft: If one is not flown for a year, very few of the systems still work upon the first power-up.

And regarding my most admired among mankind's engineering achievents, the top three are:
- The Golden Gate Bridge: perfectly proportioned, beautiful in every detail and earth-quake proof at the same time.
- Satellite navigation, because it combines spaceflight, electronics and physics in an affordable way that is useful for everybody.
- Concorde: the most beautiful object ever made my humans and in it's time the most technically advanced aircraft.

Regards
Max

[Hans S.]

(02-06-2021 01:29 PM)Maximilian Hohmann Wrote:  And regarding my most admired among mankind's engineering achievents, the top three are:
- The Golden Gate Bridge: perfectly proportioned, beautiful in every detail and earth-quake proof at the same time.
- Satellite navigation, because it combines spaceflight, electronics and physics in an affordable way that is useful for everybody.
- Concorde: the most beautiful object ever made my humans and in it's time the most technically advanced aircraft.

Max,

how long will these last? (Oops, the Concorde is already gone). There are other engineering achievements, from the olden times:
- The roads of the Roman empire
- The gothic cathedrals
- The Semmering railway
etc.

Hans

[Hlib]

It should be recognized that some unique projects (especially in the military industry) are difficult to convert for commercial purposes. For example, use intercontinental missiles to launch satellites. Appolo program and Concorde, for all their grandiosity, ultimately did not bring the expected financial profit. The creation of one of the world`s best medium-haul Airbus A220 (CS300) almost ended in bankruptcy for the company, and only public investment saved the project.
I am also interested in why HP calculators of the 1980s and 1990s did not get worldwide distribution in the field of science and education, but remained the most within a relatively small audience. Steve Jobs, for example, visited the USSR in Moscow in 1985 to organize the supply of Apple products for educational institutions, but nothing came of this idea.
Some on this forum probably remember the View-Master stereo 3 reel set with "NASA Apollo Moon Landing 1969" from the early 70s: 21 pairs of high-quality stereo slides with a detailed overview of this mission. View-Master toy in those days gave the opportunity to visit many interesting places in absentia.

[Maximilian Hohmann]

Hello Hans,

(02-07-2021 09:06 AM)Hans S. Wrote:  how long will these last? (Oops, the Concorde is already gone). There are other engineering achievements, from the olden times:
- The roads of the Roman empire
- The gothic cathedrals
- The Semmering railway
etc.

You are perfectly right, my selection of engineering achievements rather lists milestones than monuments for eternity. Very few milestones which are monuments at the same time survived the ages. The Roman roads are a good example as are their concrete buildings like the Pantheon in Rome. 2000 years before concrete was reinvented in modern times (only that the descendants (all of us in Europe that is) of the Romans seem to have difficulties making concrete road and motorway bridges which last longer than 50 years...).

Regards
Max

[Maximilian Hohmann]

Hello Hlib,

(02-07-2021 10:44 AM)Hlib Wrote:  It should be recognized that some unique projects (especially in the military industry) are difficult to convert for commercial purposes. For example, use intercontinental missiles to launch satellites.

It has been successfully done, the beginnings of the US manned space program were based on military rockets. The first American to reach Orbit (John Glenn) was launched there using an intercontinentl missile. Some of these (namely the Delta and Atlas) are still built and used today for civilian space launches. As are many the former Soviet rockets (Proton, Soyuz).

Satellite navigation (which I included in my list of enigineering milestones) was also developed solely with military goals in mind. I still consider it as a miracle that we are allowed to use it in our everyday lives. It would have been impossible to fund it's development on a civilian basis.

Quote:Appolo program and Concorde, for all their grandiosity, ultimately did not bring the expected financial profit.

I wouldn't say that. Apollo was never intended for profit and besides from it's "space race" aspect it was mainly a program for nationwide technological modernisation. It boosted electronics, information technology, logistics, communication and of course all aspects of flight and spaceflight. Lots of highly profitable industries can trace their history back to Apollo.

And as for Concorde, I am not sure if financial profit was really on the agenda. Since the brothers Wright (and that includes them as well) no one has been able to set up an aircraft industry or an operation using aeroplanes (airline!) which has been profitable for more than a short, happy period of time. Unless these companies receive some form of public subsidies (either directly like Airbus, which is what ultimately came out of the Concorde project, or through large military orders) they can not survive for long.

Quote:I am also interested in why HP calculators of the 1980s and 1990s did not get worldwide distribution in the field of science and education, but remained the most within a relatively small audience.

Because (no this is my personal view only of course) they made two big mistakes:
1. The prices of hp calculators of those years were about double compared to those of the competition, which made them unaffordable to large parts of their target clientele. I myself was a "victim" of that pricing policy because as a student in the 1980ies I could simply not afford an hp (among students "hp" stood for "high price" then...).
2. Their insisting on RPN and RPL (the latter was not even comprehensible for a majority of educators) ultimately turned away a large portion of those who would have been able to afford such a calculator. Because a calculator is a tool which is supposed to facilitate one's way through a mathematics, science or engineering course. But in order to effectively use these "tools", one would have had to take another course first... Not appealing to most possible users.

Quote:Some on this forum probably remember the View-Master stereo 3 reel set with "NASA Apollo Moon Landing 1969" from the early 70s: 21 pairs of high-quality stereo slides with a detailed overview of this mission. View-Master toy in those days gave the opportunity to visit many interesting places in absentia.

And how I do! My second most important collection (not in terms of numbers but affection) after calculators are View Master reels. Absolutely wonderful. By the way: ViewMaster viewers and reels are still made today, over 70 years after it's first introduction. This must be one of the most long-lived consumer product. You can use a 2021 viewer to look at a reel from 1950. The latest ones are actually VR glasses in which you insert your mobile phone and the stereo images are displayed by an App. Works pretty well, but does not have the charm of the mechanical device and the Kodachrome slides.

Regards
Max

[Hans S.]

(02-07-2021 03:16 PM)Maximilian Hohmann Wrote:  my selection of engineering achievements rather lists milestones than monuments for eternity.

Max, then let's hope that Hlib's SS-18 (strange example) are not made for eternity.

Hans

[KeithB]

"I do not know which corporation now owns these complexes, but they are located in the European part of the former USSR on the territory of three independent states. Are there any analogues of these complexes in the world?"

I am not sure what you mean by "these complexes", but all the US nuclear design agency sites are still going strong:
Los Alamos, Laurence Livermore, Sandia, Pantex, Kansas city plant...

There are still a lot of silos in operation, too.

Speaking of EMP testing (which I suspect is a bit of an urban legend), Sandia still has the test site where US planes (including B-52's!) were tested. You can see it sometimes when you take off from the Albuquerque airport.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATLAS-I

Anybody see the fly-by during the superbowl? A B-52, a B-1(!) and a B-2.

[Hlib]

Hans S Wrote:...let`s hope that Hlib`s SS-18 (strange example) are not made for eternity.
Hans

My example is not entirely strange. This is an illustration of how some expensive projects end up in a dead end.
It is not economically feasible to upgrade the SS-18 for other purposes: you need to find a contractor, add a third stage to the power plant, redo the control system, issue a lot of documents and inflate the real cost of work by ten times. This is a very difficult task. A decommissioned launch shaft is sometimes used for unauthorized disposal of garbage or goes into scrap metal.
Another example. The TU-160 is superior to the Concorde in range, speed, and payload. But it has long been decided that it is impossible to convert it into a passenger transport for many reasons. And this giant will never become a prototype of any supersonic passenger liner.
From the world of calculators, you can also recall many similar and seemingly illogical stories.

KeithB Wrote:...I am not sure what you mean by "these complexes", but all the US nuclear design agency sites are still going strong:
Los Alamos, Laurence Livermore, Sandia, Pantex, Kansas city plant...
There are still a lot of silos in operation, too.
Speaking of EMP testing (which I suspect is a bit of an urban legend), Sandia still has the test site where US planes (including B-52`s!) were tested. You can see it sometimes when you take off from the Albuquerque airport...

I was referring to reusable silo launchers. In any case, your information is interesting and will help me in my question.

[Maximilian Hohmann]

Hello!

(02-08-2021 08:46 PM)Hlib Wrote:  It is not economically feasible to upgrade the SS-18 for other purposes: you need to find a contractor, ...

In the 1990ies I occasionally flew for a guy who owned an aeroplane but knew nothing about flying himself. His business was to buy former Soviet intercontinental missliles (without warheads, electronics and propellant of course) as scrap metal and have them turned into satellite dishes for TV reception. Back then, a satellite dish was still quite expensive, so he could afford his own aeroplane... I always found that a good way to dispose of weapons of mass destruction: Turn them into communication devices.

Regards
Max

[BillBee]

(02-06-2021 01:29 PM)Maximilian Hohmann Wrote:  Hello!

(02-05-2021 08:35 PM)Hlib Wrote:  After 50 years of conservation, the missile is activated within 60 seconds and is ready to hit a target anywhere in the world.

<snip>
- Concorde: the most beautiful object ever made my humans and in it's time the most technically advanced aircraft.

Regards
Max

Beautiful aircraft and the Soviet Concordski was as well. I recently caught a documentary on them and the engineering was impressive. IIRC the friction alone had the aircraft elongate 18 ".

-Bill

[Hans S.]

(02-08-2021 08:46 PM)Hlib Wrote:  My example is not entirely strange.

I meant strange in Dr. Strange's sense.

Hans

[Maximilian Hohmann]

(02-09-2021 04:56 PM)Hans S. Wrote:  I meant strange in Dr. Strange's sense.

Or rather in the Dr. Strangelove sense...

[Hlib]

(02-08-2021 09:07 PM)Maximilian Hohmann Wrote:  Hello!
In the 1990ies I occasionally flew for a guy who owned an aeroplane but knew nothing about flying himself. His business was to buy former Soviet intercontinental missliles (without warheads, electronics and propellant of course) as scrap metal and have them turned into satellite dishes for TV reception. Back then, a satellite dish was still quite expensive, so he could afford his own aeroplane... I always found that a good way to dispose of weapons of mass destruction: Turn them into communication devices.
Regards
Max

Your story is worthy of a feature film on Discovery Science or on How To Do. Give me a lot of money, and I`ll raise dinosaurs on my own farm somewhere in Antarctica. I have seen similar information in fake news such as: Russia launches satellites using upgraded ballistic missiles. But in reality, this never happened. The space program in Russia is developing on newer technologies. However, this is our era from the Corrupted News Network (CNN).
Obsolete engineering achievements were sold by the former Soviet Union to Pakistan, Iran, China and India. Why did Iran not suffer the fate of Iraq and Libya? Only thanks to Engineering Achievements in the field of rocket science, which he really has now.

(02-07-2021 03:17 PM)Maximilian Hohmann Wrote:  Hello Hlib,
Because (no this is my personal view only of course) they made two big mistakes:
1. The prices of hp calculators of those years were about double compared to those of the competition, which made them unaffordable to large parts of their target clientele. I myself was a "victim" of that pricing policy because as a student in the 1980ies I could simply not afford an hp (among students "hp" stood for "high price" then...)...

Regards
Max

Why doesn`t HP currently produce expensive quality calculators like it used to? I would buy an HP-Prime NE (new adition) for even $899 if it was worth it. Once upon a time, HP produced good oscilloscopes, printers, calculators, and mini-computers of the m Jornada series. Now - the usual cheap consumer goods at an inflated cost. China today produces the TI-89 and TI-85 clones of fairly good quality, which are in demand. We could also buy HP-41C/CX/48GX clones now for $70 instead of the dreaded HP-35s/39gs/39gii dregs, if the HP-41C/CX/48GX had at least minimal financial demand in the RPN fan market.
Edit: not HP-85, but TI-85.

[Jake Schwartz]

[/quote]
Why doesn`t HP currently produce expensive quality calculators like it used to? I would buy an HP-Prime NE (new adition) for even $899 if it was worth it. Once upon a time, HP produced good oscilloscopes, printers, calculators, and mini-computers of the m Jornada series.
[/quote]

Clearly in this "money is everything" day and age, if HP had determined that they could make decent money producing expensive calculators, they would do it. Apparently, they determined that it's not a worthwhile investment. If SwissMicros could sell the DM42 and DM41X by the thousands (rather than presumably by the hundreds), perhaps HP might take notice.
Jake

[Hans S.]

(02-09-2021 05:27 PM)Maximilian Hohmann Wrote:  Or rather in the Dr. Strangelove sense...

Oops, of course

Hans

[Hlib]

@ Jake Schwartz
However, I would like to have a wider selection of calculators from HP.
I really like the metropolis of Chicago. In the 19th century, when this city was laying the foundations for its future development, tram rails extended from the center into an open field where there was no infrastructure yet. But there was a development plan for decades ahead with wide avenues and huge skyscrapers. Today, after the usual hurricane, I see hundreds of broken cardboard houses for a Barbie doll (where successful sales managers and various marketers with financial analysts lived) and begin to understand: this is African poverty under the guise of high technology, but not Engineering achievements.
Do you remember the words of the Little Mermaid from the first cartoon? "How can this world be bad if it produces such beautiful things?" We can say that the corporation that constantly sells low-quality goods cannot be good.
A small example. The 9860gii-2 series from CASIO is a tribute graphing calculators to communicate with all former models, so that an ordinary stupid old user without knowledge of a computer and the Internet can create and upload files to their previous models on it, even in an open field at night under the stars (screen illumination). The CG-50g / giii (like the cheap "noname" push-button dialers of a decade ago) can now connect to a PC in the mode of a regular flash drive.
Some cheap Indian androids with emulators outperform HP-Prime calculators in all respects. There is a reason for reflection and for developing a successful marketing strategy for the next financial quarter. There will be no more profit of 200% per annum and monthly bonuses for hp-35s. Start working with your head, not with your fingers on the keyboard.

[Jake Schwartz]

(02-11-2021 05:27 PM)Hlib Wrote:  Some cheap Indian androids with emulators outperform HP-Prime calculators in all respects. There is a reason for reflection and for developing a successful marketing strategy for the next financial quarter. There will be no more profit of 200% per annum and monthly bonuses for hp-35s. Start working with your head, not with your fingers on the keyboard.

By "cheap Indian androids with emulators", do you mean smartphones? Are they less expensive than an HP Prime at $140? If so, I don't believe that the education market has ever accepted smartphones into the classroom. I agree that a successful marketing strategy is always necessary. Alas, I doubt that HP's "heart" is in calculators any more, in order to consider a marketing strategy at this point. There is no such thing as a "series" (such as Pioneer, Voyager, Charlemagne, etc.) any more, and it is indeed a shame. They just don't seem to believe in it with sincerity. The closest thing to a "series" right now appears to be the DM-42, DM-41X and (hopefully upcoming) DM-43.

Jake

[Jake Schwartz]

Speaking of engineering achievements, next January will be the 50th anniversary of the HP-35.....
Jake