When and why did ftp break in some browsers?

[StephenG1CMZ]

I just read in this thread that ftp no longer works in some browsers.
https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-16883.html

I thought I'd ask about it here to avoid cluttering up that thread.

For what it's worth, it works on:
Iphone's safari browser, and
Firefox on Android's Google Play
(the ftp show a list of zips at least - I've yet to try downloading them).

On Android's Chrome, it hangs or goes slow.

At least it's not just HP Prime emulator functionality that disappears.

But what's gone wrong with ftp, and why?
And if you have to choose an ftp app rather than simply use your browser, how do you choose one that's safe?

[Dave Britten]

(05-07-2021 02:20 PM)StephenG1CMZ Wrote:  And if you have to choose an ftp app rather than simply use your browser, how do you choose one that's safe?

Quick and dirty answer: use WinSCP for everything. It does FTP, SFTP, FTPS, SCP, WebDAV, and S3, with a nice Norton Commander kind of interface.

[Thomas Okken]

I remember at least one ftp site, back in the day, that told me "Your ftp client doesn't close its connections. Go away." when I tried to connect to it using Netscape Navigator. I guess that is an inevitable issue when you're using a stateless client to connect to a stateful server. But the issue became moot before too long as everyone started to expose their anonymous ftp areas to their web servers...

[SammysHP]

https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2021/04/...irefox-90/

[Paul Berger (Canada)]

(05-07-2021 02:20 PM)StephenG1CMZ Wrote:  I just read in this thread that ftp no longer works in some browsers.
https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-16883.html

I thought I'd ask about it here to avoid cluttering up that thread.

For what it's worth, it works on:
Iphone's safari browser, and
Firefox on Android's Google Play
(the ftp show a list of zips at least - I've yet to try downloading them).

On Android's Chrome, it hangs or goes slow.

At least it's not just HP Prime emulator functionality that disappears.

But what's gone wrong with ftp, and why?
And if you have to choose an ftp app rather than simply use your browser, how do you choose one that's safe?

FTP like some of the other older TCP/IP protocols like telnet is not being supported anymore because of security concern and are being replaced with more modern encrypted and more secure protocols like sftp and ftps. Telnet is replaced by ssh. Even some of the early encryption protocol are no longer supported. The systems I support have a control processor that has a https interface to access it over ethernet. SOme of these are 15+ years old and the code on the control processor has not been updated in several years which means that the encryption protocols supported by their web server is also old and no longer supported by any current browsers, so our service reps carry around an old "portable" version of firefox to use with these systems.

Paul.

[cdmackay]

A dedicated file-download client, supporting FTP (amongst other protocols) might be a better bet, anyway.

I recently had to find one, when Chrome ripped out ftp support (I run a dev build of Chrome), and found Cyberduck, on MacOS, is much better. A dedicated tool has a lot more options than the basic support offered by a browser.

[Maximilian Hohmann]

Hello!

(05-08-2021 09:51 PM)cdmackay Wrote:  ...and found Cyberduck, on MacOS, is much better. A dedicated tool has a lot more options than the basic support offered by a browser.

I have used Cyberduck for many years on my Mac but some time ago I tried out FileZilla and since that day never used Cyberduck again. Not that Cyberduck is bad in any way, but FileZilla somehow blends better into the Mac OS user interface.
And I can't remember that I ever used ftp from inside an internet browser so I did not even notice that it is gone...

Regards
Max

NB: Sometimes, just to keep my typing skills current, I still use ftp from the unix terminal.

[Thomas Okken]

Another benefit of FileZilla is that it is cross-platform, there are versions for Windows, MacOS, and Linux, so once you're familiar with it on one platform, you're good to go on the other two as well.

[Dave Britten]

FileZilla has been known to surreptitiously bundle adware in its installer. I'd recommend going with WinSCP or Cyberduck.

https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/commen..._download/

[cdmackay]

thanks for the filezilla suggestions/warnings.

(05-09-2021 11:29 AM)Maximilian Hohmann Wrote:  NB: Sometimes, just to keep my typing skills current, I still use ftp from the unix terminal.

ah yes, bin/prompt/mget *, happy days

[rprosperi]

(05-09-2021 12:53 PM)Dave Britten Wrote:  FileZilla has been known to surreptitiously bundle adware in its installer. I'd recommend going with WinSCP or Cyberduck.

Well, it's not surreptitious in my opinion. The download page clearly warns of this, and the setup wizard lets you opt out, so anyone that ends up with (non-malicious!) bundle-ware on their PC deserves it for not paying attention.

FileZilla is a great, free product which performs better than the others, is constantly being updated and has been free for many years. I have no problem at all with the author bundling other s/w, if it's done responsibly, which IMHO it has been; committed freeware authors need to pay the bills to keep it free, I have no issues with this method.

WinSCP is a good product too, but is slow by comparison. Can't say about Cyberduck, never used it, but I was surprised to see it's not free (even though not expensive!).

[Maximilian Hohmann]

Hello!

(05-09-2021 07:04 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  ... is constantly being updated and has been free for many years.

The updates btw are adware-free. For the Macintosh (don't know about Windows) there is also a commercial version available called "FileZilla Pro" that costs 10 Euros per year and can be purchased through the App Store. I don't know what extra features it offers over the free version because this already does everything I need.

Regards
Max

[Massimo Gnerucci]

(05-09-2021 07:04 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  WinSCP is a good product too, but is slow by comparison.

I don't find it slow. Use it daily @work, and sometimes Filezilla.

I used WinSCP as a plugin in FAR manager too, now substituted by NetBox (also based on the same codebase).

[cdmackay]

(05-09-2021 07:04 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  WinSCP is a good product too, but is slow by comparison. Can't say about Cyberduck, never used it, but I was surprised to see it's not free (even though not expensive!).

Cyberduck is free, but it asks you to consider an optional donation, at the end of each session.

You can donate via the website, for a minimum of $10 USD, which gets you a key that will stop the donation nagging. I've done that, as I think it's a great app.

For Macs, you can also buy it via the Mac App Store, but I'd advise against that, where it's priced (in the UK) at £22.99!

[and, of course, Apple's gouging of devs, in their app stores, is in the news this week]

[Sukiari]

(05-07-2021 02:28 PM)Dave Britten Wrote:  

(05-07-2021 02:20 PM)StephenG1CMZ Wrote:  And if you have to choose an ftp app rather than simply use your browser, how do you choose one that's safe?

Quick and dirty answer: use WinSCP for everything. It does FTP, SFTP, FTPS, SCP, WebDAV, and S3, with a nice Norton Commander kind of interface.

Just checked, WinSCP isn’t available in my Linux distro’s repo, nor is in my BSD packages, what kind of strange OS is this for anyway?

[Massimo Gnerucci]

(05-18-2021 05:09 AM)Sukiari Wrote:  

(05-07-2021 02:28 PM)Dave Britten Wrote:  Quick and dirty answer: use WinSCP for everything. :) It does FTP, SFTP, FTPS, SCP, WebDAV, and S3, with a nice Norton Commander kind of interface.

Just checked, WinSCP isn’t available in my Linux distro’s repo, nor is in my BSD packages,

What's a linux distro? What's BSD?

(05-18-2021 05:09 AM)Sukiari Wrote:  what kind of strange OS is this for anyway?

The One and only.

P.S. :D

[Sukiari]

(05-18-2021 06:06 AM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  

(05-18-2021 05:09 AM)Sukiari Wrote:  Just checked, WinSCP isn’t available in my Linux distro’s repo, nor is in my BSD packages,

What's a linux distro? What's BSD?

(05-18-2021 05:09 AM)Sukiari Wrote:  what kind of strange OS is this for anyway?

The One and only.

P.S.

To each their own of course, I had to stop using Windows when they introduced their TOS for Vista which grants them a non-exclusive perpetual license to use in any way and create and sell derivative works of everything you produce on “your” computer. Of course it’s all gotten much, much more onerous since then. I’m a ham and it’s mind blowing to me that other hams tolerate it.