"The Forth Deck" portable computer (smell of HP71B Forth)

[floppy]

http://mynor.org/

The Forth Deck:
40 x 4 character LCD
56 buttons QWERTY keyboard
6.6 Wh LiPo battery
6 hours runtime without recharging
8-bit discrete CMOS logic CPU
8 to 14 MHz clock frequency
32 KB ROM, 32 KB RAM, up to 256 KB EEPROM
17 CMOS logic chips of the 74 series, 3 transistors
RS-232 with 4800 baud
I2C-bus for extensions
16-bit Forth 2012 system
Size 198 x 118 x 35 mm

[mfleming]

Reminiscent of the old Radio Shack Model 100, one of the first portable computers that ran Basic. Wonder if anyone ported Forth to that platform? Or replace the ROM with Forth?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS-80_Model_100

[HP67]

Thank you! This is a very interesting project!

[floppy]

(07-30-2023 07:50 PM)HP67 Wrote:  Thank you! This is a very interesting project!

I contacted the project owner.. and said he should contact SWISSMICRO. Imagine, an HP71B look with Forth only..

[floppy]

(07-30-2023 07:48 PM)mfleming Wrote:  Reminiscent of the old Radio Shack Model 100, one of the first portable computers that ran Basic. Wonder if anyone ported Forth to that platform? Or replace the ROM with Forth?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS-80_Model_100

Same idea with canon X-07.. would be fun.

[Bill (Smithville NJ)]

(07-30-2023 07:48 PM)mfleming Wrote:  Reminiscent of the old Radio Shack Model 100, one of the first portable computers that ran Basic. Wonder if anyone ported Forth to that platform? Or replace the ROM with Forth?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS-80_Model_100

Yes they did. Check out MFORTH:

MFORTH for the Model 100

73
Bill WD9EQD
Smithville, NJ

[HP67]

(07-30-2023 09:15 PM)floppy Wrote:  

(07-30-2023 07:50 PM)HP67 Wrote:  Thank you! This is a very interesting project!

I contacted the project owner.. and said he should contact SWISSMICRO. Imagine, an HP71B look with Forth only..

Since the new EU tax rules it's too risky for us to buy from Michael. I bought 5 of his calculators so far and I'm really annoyed that it has become a problem. Customs enforcement here is brutal and expensive. I hope he can find an EU dealer to work with.

A FORTH machine would be a cool project, but it would need a bigger keyboard than a calculator and other features to make it appealing. Writing programs on a tiny keyboard becomes unpleasant quickly.

In a small size, it might be difficult to compete with small boards like the MSP430, where there is a FORTH available for those for years already. People who want more user-friendliness would go for RPi etc. So, how to differentiate?

Maybe programming over USB, RS-232 etc. while also having a small form factor and physical keyboard available for quick changes...

[Maximilian Hohmann]

Hello!

(07-30-2023 10:13 PM)HP67 Wrote:  Since the new EU tax rules it's too risky for us to buy from Michael. I bought 5 of his calculators so far and I'm really annoyed that it has become a problem. Customs enforcement here is brutal and expensive. I hope he can find an EU dealer to work with.

Just out of curiosity, what do you mean by that? Which "new EU tax rules"? When importing from non-EU countries one has to pay import sales tax. Since always - or at least as long as I can remember. There are no additional taxes or duties for calculators, just checked that in the relevant EU document. Theoretically, if one wants to go through the hassle, the Swiss VAT can be reimbursed when exporting from there. Employing a professional dealer within the EU will make no difference when it comes to paying VAT.

Regards
Max

[HP67]

(07-31-2023 03:54 PM)Maximilian Hohmann Wrote:  Hello!

(07-30-2023 10:13 PM)HP67 Wrote:  Since the new EU tax rules it's too risky for us to buy from Michael. I bought 5 of his calculators so far and I'm really annoyed that it has become a problem. Customs enforcement here is brutal and expensive. I hope he can find an EU dealer to work with.

Just out of curiosity, what do you mean by that? Which "new EU tax rules"? When importing from non-EU countries one has to pay import sales tax. Since always - or at least as long as I can remember. There are no additional taxes or duties for calculators, just checked that in the relevant EU document. Theoretically, if one wants to go through the hassle, the Swiss VAT can be reimbursed when exporting from there. Employing a professional dealer within the EU will make no difference when it comes to paying VAT.

Regards
Max

Hello! Well, I really don't want to go over this since it's been hashed and rehashed ad nauseum. But...

The EU rules changed about 2 years ago, I don't remember all the details. One thing is that there is no longer a minimum below which Customs exempts anything. And as I said, enforcement is very aggressive here unlike what I hear from some of our neighboring countries.

Paying VAT is not the problem for us. The problems include having to deal with customs clearance, having to submit proof of a transaction that matches the invoice sent in the box, having to pay duties and fees above (I think) 135 euros total (product plus shipping).

There may not be EU duties for this or that item, but the agents here take the liberty of categorizing the goods you bought however they feel that day. Once you sign power of attorney to clear your goods, you have to pay whatever ransom they decide. There is no appeal process, no online system to determine the status of goods before purchase, etc.

It's not just about the EU rules, but also the misc. and sundry ransoms, fees-du-jour and also the recent ongoing failure of the state-run postal system. Even if something would arrive in-country, and even if we went through the process of filling out the forms online, submitting all the proofs etc. there is not much chance the Post would deliver the package. They are closing 300 branches and firing more than 1000 people, so it has gone from bad to worse.

[rprosperi]

(07-31-2023 11:37 PM)HP67 Wrote:  

(07-31-2023 03:54 PM)Maximilian Hohmann Wrote:  Hello!


Just out of curiosity, what do you mean by that? Which "new EU tax rules"? When importing from non-EU countries one has to pay import sales tax. Since always - or at least as long as I can remember. There are no additional taxes or duties for calculators, just checked that in the relevant EU document. Theoretically, if one wants to go through the hassle, the Swiss VAT can be reimbursed when exporting from there. Employing a professional dealer within the EU will make no difference when it comes to paying VAT.

Regards
Max

Hello! Well, I really don't want to go over this since it's been hashed and rehashed ad nauseum. But...

The EU rules changed about 2 years ago, I don't remember all the details. One thing is that there is no longer a minimum below which Customs exempts anything. And as I said, enforcement is very aggressive here unlike what I hear from some of our neighboring countries.

Paying VAT is not the problem for us. The problems include having to deal with customs clearance, having to submit proof of a transaction that matches the invoice sent in the box, having to pay duties and fees above (I think) 135 euros total (product plus shipping).

There may not be EU duties for this or that item, but the agents here take the liberty of categorizing the goods you bought however they feel that day. Once you sign power of attorney to clear your goods, you have to pay whatever ransom they decide. There is no appeal process, no online system to determine the status of goods before purchase, etc.

It's not just about the EU rules, but also the misc. and sundry ransoms, fees-du-jour and also the recent ongoing failure of the state-run postal system. Even if something would arrive in-country, and even if we went through the process of filling out the forms online, submitting all the proofs etc. there is not much chance the Post would deliver the package. They are closing 300 branches and firing more than 1000 people, so it has gone from bad to worse.

Sounds horrible... out of curiosity, which country is "here"?

Highway robbery is bad enough, but incompetent highway robbery is sooo much worse...

[HP67]

(08-01-2023 02:23 AM)rprosperi Wrote:  Sounds horrible... out of curiosity, which country is "here"?

Czech Republic. It's a very good country in many (most) ways, but unfortunately in some respects it hasn't broken out of post-Communist mode. On the balance I feel fortunate to live here as opposed to some of the other many places I have lived. Nothing is perfect...

BTW the "third world country" location in my profile which you asked about was set while I was living elsewhere. I think highly of my current country of residence; it's just hard to buy stuff here

[vaklaff]

(08-01-2023 02:23 AM)rprosperi Wrote:  Sounds horrible... out of curiosity, which country is "here"?

Highway robbery is bad enough, but incompetent highway robbery is sooo much worse...

Because of the mention of closing up and firing, I strongly suspect that that "here" is my "here" as well - the Czech republic. My experience isn't that bad (no lost calculator yet) but since the EU tightened the rules for no-VAT and no-duty exceptions the situation has been, well, not pretty. Paperwork, delays, 21% VAT, processing fee. The duty for calculators is zero but that's very little consolation. I avoid buying from outside the EU as well, with very very rare exceptions.

[vaklaff]

I was right with my guess :-) but late :-(

Anyway, I fully agree with HP67. The public administration and state-run companies like Czech Post leave a lot to be desired...

[HP67]

(08-01-2023 08:12 AM)vaklaff Wrote:  Because of the mention of closing up and firing, I strongly suspect that that "here" is my "here" as well - the Czech republic.

Correct! Ahoj

(08-01-2023 08:12 AM)vaklaff Wrote:  I avoid buying from outside the EU as well, with very very rare exceptions.

Yes, my Czech friends have many horror stories in addition to the ones I experienced.

Interestingly, the Chinese and Hong Kong business people are getting very creative. I bought some electronics from ebay recently. Ebay now collects VAT for us and gives an itemized receipt/invoice which Czech Customs accepts in the case we have to submit the paperwork online. Item price, shipping price, VAT paid etc. are shown as required, with a German ebay entity IOSS number as the VAT collector.

But the new twist is that some of these shops ship the package to Luxembourg or some other EU country where their people handle the importation paperwork. Then it gets sent to me via PPL like a normal package from inside CR. Not everybody is on board yet but it's nice that smart shops realize if they help with this everybody wins.

Unfortunately it's impossible to know ahead of time which shops have such good logistics. But when I find one, he gets my business the next time.

The bad news is that ebay seems to have discontinued the GSP (prepaid everything and customs handling as mentioned above with the Chinese/Hong Kong shops) which used to arrive without paperwork via GLS here. It was expensive but at least there were no surprises or aggravation. ebay changed to an "international shipping program" which doesn't handle things well and uses Czech Post.. so, almost back to the old bad days unless you get lucky and find sellers with good logistics.

https://english.radio.cz/more-layoffs-cz...en-8790184

[Maximilian Hohmann]

Hello!

(08-01-2023 08:33 AM)HP67 Wrote:  Yes, my Czech friends have many horror stories in addition to the ones I experienced.

Ah, OK, after readig the various replies I get the picture. This is not a "EU" problem, but mainly a Czech one. I have imported lots of stuff over the last decades into Gemany (also EU) without any major hassle or surcharges. As you write, the Chinese sellers (eBay, Aliexpress, Alibaba) now already collect the EU VAT in their country and usually charge nothing for shipping, so the packages usually arrive just as if they were sent from within the EU. For other non-EU countries like the US or Switzerland one had to go to the nearest customs offiice (in my case about 15km away) and pay the duties in person. Since many years this in-person collection is only necessary for very large shipments, the usual small stuff like our beloved calculators is processed by the customs office themselves within a few days and the VAT plus a very little surcharge (<5Euros) is collected by the postman upon delivery. As simple as it gets.

The only thing that drives me away from buying stuff from outside the EU are the atrociuos shipping charges. A small parcel, typical calculator size, can be shipped domestically and within the EU for less than 10 Euro. From Switzerland and the UK this is now closer to 30 Euros and from the US between 50 and 60, often more than the calculator itself is worth.

Regards
Max

[vaklaff]

(08-01-2023 11:49 AM)Maximilian Hohmann Wrote:  Ah, OK, after readig the various replies I get the picture. This is not a "EU" problem, but mainly a Czech one. (...)

In essence, yes, triggered and exposed by the changed EU limits. I always wonder if the cost of collecting VAT and duties on imported goods with relatively low price tags isn't bigger than the money collected...

On a related note, this from another thread took my breath away:

(08-02-2023 02:10 AM)Gerson W. Barbosa Wrote:  (...) As of today a new law is in effect, which adds a 17% State Tax in addition to the 60% import tax for purchases above US$ 50.00 abroad (...)

I believe it's about Brazil. But things can get worse anytime anywhere...

[floppy]

Lets be kind with the Czech. If there is not a tight export control, we would be flooded in the EU with chinese junk. UK missed to check this few years ago and leaded to tax income missing for EU and flooded market in EU (local company suffering; especially since china was taking advantage of cheap transport conditions). I suggest somebody contact the EU autorities and point out we are suffering due to high taxes in Czech (if higher than anywhere else in EU?). Perhaps they will push them and they will adapt. However, if you have a good friend here, when you travel to Allschwill 2024, you could receive a nice EU present from her/him. No tax for this (you dont pay taxes when you travel with your Rolex at your arm.. ;-) but would have to explain if you travel with 3 Rolex at each arm..

[HP67]

(08-02-2023 11:05 AM)floppy Wrote:  No tax for this (you dont pay taxes when you travel with your Rolex at your arm.. ;-) but would have to explain if you travel with 3 Rolex at each arm..

It really depends. I read an article in a local news site this week about a woman with 6 fingers on one of her hands. According to UN Declaration on Human Rights, she should be entitled to import 11 rings

[Pekis]

Hello,

That happened to me 2 years ago in Belgium, buying a CD from Japan (the excellent Oliver Nelson / Nobuo Hara & His Sharps & Flats – "3-2-1-0" from 1969)

Paid when buying:
Price: 33.94 US$
Expedition: 12 US$
VAT: 9.65 US$

And then, later: ... Customs Fees: 17.45 EUR (approx 20 US$)

So, total paid: approx. 76 US$, incl added charges 42 US$ !!!