Too many calculators?

[Peter Klein]

Upon hearing Mozart’s opera "The Abduction from the Seraglio," Emperor Joseph II reportedly exclaimed, "Too many notes." Mozart retorted, "Just as many as necessary, your Majesty." Sometimes that argument runs through my head when I contemplate my "stash" of HP calculators.

I’m not an engineer. I'm a music and theater major who luckily blundered into IT to make a living. I'm now retired. I'm also a ham radio operator. I am a diehard RPN fan. I started with RPN on an HP-25 in the 70s and never looked back. I acquired an 11c in the 1980s. Then c. 2000, I discovered that my employer had a spare 32s sitting around. That became my calculator of choice. A couple of colleagues who found out I liked RPN gave me their 32s calculators when they "upgraded" or retired. Nobody else wanted them(!)

And, of course, I bought a few more HPs. I concentrated on user machines that worked well but didn’t always look perfect. Part of my rationale was to have some spares, so I wouldn't be forced to use an algebraic calculator in my old age if my older HPs wore out. Part was a quest to find the unattainable perfect combination of keyboard ergonomics and display readability. And part was that I just like the darn things. So I now have nine RPN HPs, which I alternate using. That leads to a bit of keyboard confusion.

Lately, I've been thinking that maybe I have too many calculators. Maybe I should sell a couple, and maybe pick up one of the SwissMicro machines. There's no perfect calculator, and perhaps I'm letting the ideal become the enemy of the good. Honestly, all I really need is a decent programmable scientific RPN calculator. Any one of my "stash" will do. But I do like to play with numbers, occasionally solve an equation, and learn some new (for me) math. Forget RPL and graphing calculators. I have a couple of the low-end models (48S and 48G). I've played with them, but I never really use them. They go beyond my tolerance for complexity in a hand calculator.

So I'm wondering what I should do. I could keep what I have, and hope at least some last for the next ~20 years. I could also thin the herd a bit, and invest in a SwissMicro DM42 or DM32. That would give me the ability to store, retrieve and print programs with my PC. And give me some newer electronics that might(?) last longer than my current HP machines.

Here's my "stash" of working HP RPNs:
11c, 32s (three!), 32sii, 33s (two), 42s, WP34s

My top criteria are very readable display (for aging eyes), keyboard suitable for my big hands, robustness and reliability, a decent equation solver. Oddly, my "beater" 42s is my least favorite because of the less readable display, sensitivity to viewing angle and complex menu system. I use the 32s most of all, because with its simple menu system, I can always find what I need to do quickly. I use Free42 on my phone.

So, what would you do if you were me?

Best wishes to all!
--Peter

[Jlouis]

(10-02-2023 08:38 PM)Peter Klein Wrote:  My top criteria are very readable display (for aging eyes), keyboard suitable for my big hands, robustness and reliability,

So, what would you do if you were me?
--Peter

Am I reading that you need a HP 97? Or a HP 91?

Answering your question, if I were you I'd buy those two above, and a DM 41, DM 42, DM32, etc.

Really nice post.

Cheers

JL

[johnb]

(10-02-2023 08:38 PM)Peter Klein Wrote:  Here's my "stash" of working HP RPNs:
11c, 32s (three!), 32sii, 33s (two), 42s, WP34s

My top criteria are very readable display (for aging eyes), keyboard suitable for my big hands, robustness and reliability, a decent equation solver.

So, what would you do if you were me?

I understand the Search for the Perfect Calculator all too well. As you can see from my daily drivers in my .sig, you and I have a lot of overlap in our collections. (Though, for the life of me, I cannot fathom your preference of the 32s over the 32sII, LOL!)

The reason why I enjoy having a bunch of different models as my daily driver is precisely because of The Search... if I can't find the One Calculator of Power (apologies, J.R.R.!) then the "Best Calculator for the Moment" does nicely.

IMHO, the only reason(s) to pare down your collection are:
(a) make space for other things you'd rather have;
(b) sell, to better afford other things you'd rather have.

So... hmm... some random suggestions, perhaps?

• Maybe look for a 35s?
  It's pretty cool and pretty readable, and if you don't need a powerhouse you won't run afoul of its quirks/bugs/limitations. (I haven't.)
• Maybe keep your eye out for another 11c in very nice "like new" condition?
  You already know it has a very clear display.
• Either that, or buy one of the new 15c Collector's Editions.
  Same display as an 11c, but a new-in-box machine.
• Perhaps try to find a reasonably priced 41-series. (Or splurge.)
  Those have NICELY clear displays. But they have the older -/+/x/÷ operators stacked on the left, unlike the newer ÷/x/-/+ ordering on the right, which might throw you. (It does for me from time to time.)
• Maybe splurge on the SwissMicros of your choice?
  If your 32s is your favorite then maybe go for the DM32?
  

If your goal is to have a friendly tool always at hand for the rest of your life, instead of that of increasing your collection, my one real piece of advice would be to spend the effort and $$$ to get ones in NICE condition from now on. (And/or, you perform careful restoration work and cleanup.) It's worth it to have nice, clean, pretty tools.

[johnb]

(10-02-2023 08:56 PM)Jlouis Wrote:  Am I reading that you need a HP 97? Or a HP 91?

I "need" an HP 91.

Got a nice one you want to sell? :-)

[John Garza (3665)]

Great story!
Really enjoyed reading about your personal history with HP calcs.
Thanks for sharing.

Sounds like the DM32 is your best best.

You are already familiar with it as it is based on the 32SII.
It has more memory and is faster. Not to mention well built. VERY well built.

If you had not mentioned needing the equation solver, I would have suggested an HP-97.
Excellent large LED display, mag card programmable with printer.

But the equation solver is a great benefit. Maybe 70% of most user programs are simple "solve for x' type programs. One reason for the popularity of the simple programmables back in the day - like the HP-25. They filled a real niche.

9 calculators and you're worrying about having too many?
Stop it.
Start worrying again when you have 9 of each type.
But then, I'm biased

All the best!

-J

[HP: 9100B/9815A/35/45/55/80/70/65/67/67T/97/97S/91/92/21/22/
27/25/25C/25E/29C/19C/10/31E/32E/33C/34C/37E/38C/41CX/71B/28S/19BII/
12C/15C/32SII/33S/35S/48SX/48GX/50G/Prime/DM32/DM42]
[TI: 2550/50/50A/51/51A/55/52/56/57/58/58C/59/60/66]

[John Garza (3665)]

johnb (aka Mr. Colossus) brings up some excellent points:

1) If you repair/refurb your own machines, it's always useful to have 'parts machines'. Buy some cheap junked ones for this purpose. Maybe you want good cosmetics, but fried innards are OK, or maybe the reverse, depending on your needs. But I agree with johnb in that if you enjoy using them, you should have some top-notch examples for this purpose. It makes the experience all the better. Personally, I can't stand looking at an imperfect display. Like scratches or smudges. I even keep lens cleaner patches with my HP Prime so I can wipe off the fingerprints after each use.

2) I gave up long ago looking for the one perfect machine. About mid-point in the HP collector journey everyone reaches this 'quest for the holy grail' plateau. And people have different approaches to overcoming it. For me, I realize they are all different machines with different strengths/weaknesses. I try to match my average daily needs to the machine and keep only one or two 'on deck' charged and ready to go if I need one. The others are safe in storage. Every couple of months, I re-evaluate and maybe swap out a machine, even if it's just to mix things up and lend some variety.

Another approach is categorizing by machine types. For example: light general use, heavy programming, financial analysis, etc. Then keep one of each type on hand. An example mix (for me) on the above categories would be: HP-25C for light general use, DM42 for heavy programming, HP-92 for financial.


-J

[Johnboy]

9 calculators, is that all ? Get collecting !!

Here's my 28 or so (some more hidden in the "to fix" box).

   

Cheers,
John

[dmh]

Nice collection!!!

Do they sleep there? :-)

(10-03-2023 04:01 AM)Johnboy Wrote:  9 calculators, is that all ? Get collecting !!

Here's my 28 or so (some more hidden in the "to fix" box).



Cheers,
John

[vaklaff]

(10-02-2023 08:38 PM)Peter Klein Wrote:  Lately, I've been thinking that maybe I have too many calculators.

No, you haven't. Actually as other already pointed out, you need to add some more. A brand new 15c CE and any of the DM flagships would be a good start but the other suggestions here are great as well. If you have enough space and can afford them, if they bring you joy and if the joy makes you a better person and your radiating personality make this world a better place then it's your duty, isn't it? ;-)

[johnb]

(10-03-2023 12:18 AM)John Garza (3665) Wrote:  Great story!
Really enjoyed reading about your personal history with HP calcs.
Thanks for sharing.

Peter:

I too really enjoyed your story. I love to hear people's backgrounds: why they love HPs so much, and what they do in enjoyment of theirs.

John Garza:

Thanks for your support! I happen to agree with 100% of what you've said in this thread so far! (It's a Red Letter Day for me to say that to anybody, mark it on your calendars, folks.)

BTW 1: Most of my daily drivers are "strategically scattered" about in my home office, or in other parts of my home (HP-12c is next to the family machine since that's where the finance stuff happens, for instance). When I'm in my home office, I'm literally never outside of a "stretched arm's reach" of an HP calculator, LOL.

BTW 2: You guys' collections!! (Garza's .sig line and Johnboy's calcu-bed.) Just wow. I wanna come visit and see those in person! (I only have maybe 2x what I show on my daily drivers list.)

BTW 3: a shout-out to John Garza who recognized the Colossus logo. My handle on most other forums is some variant on "Forbin" -- it's a sober reminder to always include both a back-door and a kill switch!

[rprosperi]

(10-03-2023 02:24 PM)johnb Wrote:  BTW 3: a shout-out to John Garza who recognized the Colossus logo. My handle on most other forums is some variant on "Forbin" -- it's a sober reminder to always include both a back-door and a kill switch!

I've been trying to figure out where I know that logo from... revealed at last. Great film, well ahead of its time.

[johnb]

(10-04-2023 02:41 AM)rprosperi Wrote:  I've been trying to figure out where I know that logo from... revealed at last. Great film, well ahead of its time.

Glad you think so too!

Interesting tidbit of trivia: with the exception of obvious props (such as the "Voice of Colossus" speaker), all of the computer equipment shown in the film is real, supplied on loan from Control Data Corporation. I think most of it was from a 6600. They also supplied technicians and technical advice.

It drove the actors and off-camera people crazy, though, because CDC wouldn't let them smoke anywhere near the equipment!

[ttw]

Whoever dies with the most working Reverse Polish calculators wins.

[Peter Klein]

Thanks for all the replies so far. Wow, you folks are a bunch of “enablers.” I like that. ;-)

Plan A: I’m leaning towards buying a DM42 for programming, simply because it can store and retrieve programs from a PC. Could I also send and receive the same programs to Free42 on my iPhone? Am I correct that the 42s, DM42 and free42 do not not have an equation library like the 32sii and 33s, so equations have to be stored as programs? But that this hardly matters because the 42s has alpha and 2-digit labels and more memory? Also, that the 42s solver only works with equations written in RPN? How much does that matter? After all, I “speak” RPN.

Plan B would be to buy a DM32, because I’m more familiar with the 32sii. But that loses the ability interchange programs with Free42. Then again, a little creative search and replace on labels might mitigate that.

Other thoughts: It’s too bad the original 32sii has so little memory. AFAIK, the 33s can store many equations without using up labels or running out of program memory. But it has a different keyboard layout

I’m keeping my 11c for nostalgia reasons, and because it probably will outlive me. But I have no practical desire for a 15c. The Voyager keyboard is too small for my big hands to “touch type” numbers.

I’ll probably sell off my 48s and 48G, and my original-display 33s. I never use them.

Speaking of nostalgia, I forgot to mention that I still have my original HP-25 (not C). The calculation part still works, but the RAM chips don’t. So no storage registers and no programming. And a couple of keys are intermittent. And I just read about the Panamatik repair kit here. Hmmm. Do I want to go down that rabbit hole?

-Peter

[johnb]

(10-04-2023 09:36 PM)Peter Klein Wrote:  Thanks for all the replies so far. Wow, you folks are a bunch of “enablers.” I like that. ;-)

We are a group who enjoy our codependencies!

Quote:I’ll probably sell off my 48s and 48G, and my original-display 33s. I never use them.

If they aren't giving you joy, then that's a good idea. I recently decided I really wanted one of the new 15/CE's (even though I own an original 15c in good/fair condition). But it was outside of my "random enjoyment" budget, and I'm also seriously fighting a war of decluttering (both my own stuff and that of my late pack-rat mom's). I identified several calculators that I just don't even touch anymore, and have been selling them piecemeal on TAS. The inflection point was being willing to sell my nearly-mint original HP-20s, because it was the first HP calculator I ever owned, and I'd bought it new. But it's an algebraic machine, and I'm now purely an RPN/RPL guy. So, while it had some nostalgic significance, the truth of the matter is that it was just sitting in a drawer. It, plus the other neglected units, are funding my shiny new 15/CE, which I've been enjoying immensely.

Quote:Speaking of nostalgia, I forgot to mention that I still have my original HP-25 (not C). The calculation part still works, but the RAM chips don’t. [...] And I just read about the Panamatik repair kit here. Hmmm. Do I want to go down that rabbit hole?

That's entirely up to you. Do you enjoy working with electronics? Or perhaps you just like to learn new things and fiddle around with stuff? Then absolutely dive right in! Personally I just love to use things I've saved from the scrap heap by expenditure of repair effort, or things I've customized so they suit my picky preferences!

However, if it seems like a time drain, or an energy drain, or the return-on-investment doesn't seem to be worth it, then just keep it as-is, or better yet, sell it. Give someone else the joy-of-fiddling!

[rprosperi]

Although the original 32Sii indeed had very little memory, the DM32 has >50 more memory and can use it much more effectively. Also, you can upload/download programs between PC and DM32, similar to how this is done with a Dm42, but they are not directly compatible with Free42.

The DM42 does include an Equation Solver, styled after the one found in the 17BII/19BII/27S, even though the original 42S did not have this. And of course the DM32 has one just the same as the 32Sii.

I'd say if you are more comfortable with, and need the extra power of Free42, then a DM42 is the way to go, but OTOH if you are more comfortable with the far easier to use, albeit less powerful 32Sii, the a DM32 is a better choice.

It's easy to recommend, but what is best can only be determined by you.

[brouhaha]

(10-04-2023 02:41 AM)rprosperi Wrote:  I've been trying to figure out where I know that logo from... revealed at last. Great film, well ahead of its time.

THIS IS THE VOICE OF WORLD CONTROL.
I BRING YOU PEACE.

I loved the novel, titled simply Colossus, but for a long time I avoided seeing the film, because many years ago a friend said it was no good. Much more recently, a different friend said it was excellent, so I got the Blu-ray, and he was right. Also, the transfer for the Blu-ray is great.

[Peter Klein]

OK, here's a coincidence for you. Look what revealed itself at the end of tonight's Chinese dinner. Unless, of course, it wasn't a coincidence...
   

[OlidaBel]

(10-02-2023 08:38 PM)Peter Klein Wrote:  Here's my "stash" of working HP RPNs:
11c, 32s (three!), 32sii, 33s (two), 42s, WP34s

My top criteria are very readable display (for aging eyes), keyboard suitable for my big hands, robustness and reliability, a decent equation solver. Oddly, my "beater" 42s is my least favorite because of the less readable display, sensitivity to viewing angle and complex menu system. I use the 32s most of all, because with its simple menu system, I can always find what I need to do quickly. I use Free42 on my phone.

Peter,

I would choose 2 pure RPN models, as you skip RPL ones.
A DM42 and an HP 15C CE (or the DM15L?).
These suit your need and are very capable.

I disliked the 42S in the nineties, the one from my girlfriend : screen, memory, etc. The current DM42 is fantastic : big and legible screen, speed, states, fun to use, a perfect mix of capabilities and useability.
The new 15C collector edition gives a good keyboard feeling, the form factor is so nice, it's beautiful, I'm very happy to have it.

(I never used a HP 32 nor 32 SII.)

[johnb]

(10-16-2023 07:00 AM)Peter Klein Wrote:  OK, here's a coincidence for you. Look what revealed itself at the end of tonight's Chinese dinner. Unless, of course, it wasn't a coincidence...

We have spies everywhere.

_________________

Inspector Clouseau:
"This is very strange. I do not ever recall receiving the fortune cookie in a Japanese restaurant."

Sgt. François Chevalier:
"What does yours say?"

Inspector Clouseau:
"Beware of Japanese waitress bearing fortune cookies..."