Is RPN still relevant?

[Valentin Albillo]

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Hi, Maximilian,

(12-21-2023 09:47 AM)Maximilian Hohmann Wrote:  I have to object to some degree, because since Matt posed his question for the first time 9 years ago and since you asked the question about the number of stack levels 18 years ago, [...]

Get your facts straight, Maximilian, that thread titled with that question was created by Klaus, not me. I don't appreciate being named as the author of something I didn't write or say.

Also, I would never ask such a question to begin with, as I've always been adamant that the classic 4-level stack plus Lastx is the ideal size for the vast majority of calculations if not all altogether.

Regards.
V.

[Maximilian Hohmann]

Hello Valentin,

(12-21-2023 05:18 PM)Valentin Albillo Wrote:  Get your facts straight...

Mea culpa, I made an educated assumption, based on your naming of the thread in question "VA100b" without checking the facts.

Anyway, ask 100 average people below age 40 on any street in the world what the term "stack" refers to, and you can be lucky if one of them answers "calculator"...

Regards
Max

[Valentin Albillo]

(12-21-2023 05:37 PM)Maximilian Hohmann Wrote:  

(12-21-2023 05:18 PM)Valentin Albillo Wrote:  Get your facts straight...

Mea culpa, I made an educated assumption, based on your naming of the thread in question "VA100b" [...]

All files in my site are named with the VA prefix, be they selected threads, articles, brochures, images or whatever. Seems you've never visited much or you'd have noticed.

Quote:Anyway, ask 100 average people below age 40 on any street in the world what the term "stack" refers to, and you can be lucky if one of them answers "calculator"...

True (if vastly understated) but a non-sequitur.

Regards.
V.

[dm319]

I notice people here use the term "RPN" to mean "RPN but not RPL" calculators. Why is that? It causes additional confusion for this question!

[Peet]

(12-21-2023 07:06 PM)dm319 Wrote:  I notice people here use the term "RPN" to mean "RPN but not RPL" calculators. Why is that? It causes additional confusion for this question!

In comparison with RPL calculators RPN usually means the Classic (4 Level Stack) RPN and the expression RPL is chosen if so called Entry RPN is meant, because the RPL calculators use this RPN variant. It is usually clear from the context whether RPL means programming style or the RPN variant.

[polbit]

(12-21-2023 07:06 PM)dm319 Wrote:  I notice people here use the term "RPN" to mean "RPN but not RPL" calculators. Why is that? It causes additional confusion for this question!

There are only two answers to this question. Anything outside of that is heresy:

1.Classic RPN is vastly superior with its simplicity and easy to understand programming to the abomination that is RPL with its dynamic, object-oriented stack and Lisp-style programming

2. RPL is the modern, much-improved version of the old, classic HP calculators, and allows for much more complex, larger and more capable interaction and programs

As far as religious debates go, this one is pretty ridiculous. You would do your best just to ignore it and enjoy what works for you.

[Valentin Albillo]

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Hi, Bob,

(12-21-2023 01:27 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  The incomplete question "Is RPN still relevant?" is simply not clear enough for any kind of consensus, as the disparate and diverse replies show.

Agreed. All that follows is IMHO:

rprosperi Wrote:Is RPN still relevant for the public at large?

Absolutely not. It never was, not even in its heyday.

rprosperi Wrote:Is RPN still relevant for high-end calculator users?

Absolutely not, RPN passed away long time ago for those users, and RPL is still relevant for a negligible number of diehard HP-calc users, most of them visitors of this forum. The rest of the world couldn't care less.

rprosperi Wrote:Is RPN still relevant for readers of this MoHPC Forum?

Indeed it is, but mostly for nostalgic reasons or for simple everyday calculations. But for any mildly complex programming or significant computational tasks most people would use Excel, Matlab, Lua, Java, Python ... you get the drift.

rprosperi Wrote:Is RPN relevant for American (or substitute UK, EU, China, Indonesian, 3rd-world, etc.) school children?

Absolutely not. I very much doubt that any school children in Spain have ever even heard about it (kids of some RPN diehard fathers excepted), so RPN is as irrelevant as it gets here, and I daresay that this is true for most other first-world countries, let alone second- or third-world ones.

rprosperi Wrote:[...] are all questions that might reasonably be debated, [...]

I think the first question of all should be: "How do you define "relevant" ?"

rprosperi Wrote:Valentin's typical complete analysis of the history of this topics illustrates well that this is broadly a topic which is near and dear to most of our hearts, and never lacks comment or debate.

Very true and thanks for your kind comment re my "analysis" but I wouldn't consider it "complete" by any means. The six links I provided are but the tip of the iceberg, gathered in a few minutes. There are literally hundreds of links dealing with such subjects, either as the OP in the threads or appearing (and then being discussed at length) within other threads whose main subject matters had nothing to do with RPN or RPL or their relevancy.

rprosperi Wrote:I like and use RPN daily, but I also like and use RPL, albeit slightly less often.

Just for the record, I like but rarely use RPN in real life (only when concocting some article, program or challenge), as I much prefer a fast, virtual HP-71B with multiline display. And of course I utterly dislike and have never ever used RPL nor will I ever if I can help it, which I sure can.

Best regards and have a nice finde.
V.

[Garth Wilson]

(12-22-2023 02:26 AM)Valentin Albillo Wrote:  I think the first question of all should be: "How do you define "relevant" ?"

Part of it that won't be the same for everyone is something that hasn't really been mentioned in this thread, which is that some of us seem to have an RPN brain, while others have trouble thinking that way.

[Peter Klein]

(12-22-2023 03:49 AM)Garth Wilson Wrote:  Part of it that won't be the same for everyone is something that hasn't really been mentioned in this thread, which is that some of us seem to have an RPN brain, while others have trouble thinking that way.

Yes [Enter] we do. As opposed to: Yes do we =
;-)

[dm319]

(12-22-2023 01:55 AM)polbit Wrote:  As far as religious debates go, this one is pretty ridiculous. You would do your best just to ignore it and enjoy what works for you.

Yes, and I don't want to get into that argument! I'm just saying it is unfortunate the term "RPN" has come to refer to the classic style, when really the HP48 is very much RPN also. And I think some have interpreted this question along those lines.

[bxparks]

I find this thread, and the old threads from Valentin, very interesting and informative. I hadn't paid attention to calculators since around 1990 until recently. So my personal take is:

- algebraic: good for students who are learning math; most popular because Education is the biggest market
- RPN: still relevant; a practical tool for people who have already learned the math
- RPL: more consistent but too complicated; and dead, since no one makes them anymore

(I had a longer version of this post, but the browser ate my homework, so I'm posting the short version which is probably better.)

[Matt Agajanian]

(12-22-2023 07:11 PM)bxparks Wrote:  I find this thread, and the old threads from Valentin, very interesting and informative. I hadn't paid attention to calculators since around 1990 until recently. So my personal take is:

- algebraic: good for students who are learning math; most popular because Education is the biggest market
- RPN: still relevant; a practical tool for people who have already learned the math
- RPL: more consistent but too complicated; and dead, since no one makes them anymore

(I had a longer version of this post, but the browser ate my homework, so I'm posting the short version which is probably better.)

I’m glad you find my post helpful. You’re welcome.

[Voldemar]

(12-22-2023 07:11 PM)bxparks Wrote:  - RPL: more consistent but too complicated; and dead, since no one makes them anymore

Maybe it will be produced
https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-19...#pid176472
https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-20...#pid176490

[bxparks]

(12-22-2023 09:16 PM)Voldemar Wrote:  Maybe it will be produced
https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-19...#pid176472
https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-20...#pid176490

A 50gii would be cool, but I hope the 35s (or something similar) is resurrected before that. It is unfortunate that the 2 RPN calculators approved for the FE exams are out of production. The prices for the 35s on eBay are out of control.

[Voldemar]

(12-22-2023 09:53 PM)bxparks Wrote:  the 35s

Question about HP 35s. I have one of the original release and one of the newer release (Made in Philippines). For the latter, when you press your finger harder on the display, even when the calculator is turned off, black areas appear on the display, then disappear. This is not the case with a calculator made in China. Have you noticed this?

[bxparks]

(12-22-2023 10:37 PM)Voldemar Wrote:  I have one of the original release and one of the newer release (Made in Philippines). For the latter, when you press your finger harder on the display, even when the calculator is turned off, black areas appear on the display, then disappear. This is not the case with a calculator made in China. Have you noticed this?

Can't say because I don't have a 35s. And I see why it's so expensive because some people are hoarding multiple copies of them. :-)

[Matt Agajanian]

Question is

If there is a used 35s in the condition you prefer (Used/Very Good, Used/Good, etc.) that’s reasonably priced, would you “Buy It Now”?

Just out of curiosity, I went looking and nearly fell out of my chair when I saw this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/176031219781?ha...R4r7gcGSYw

Talk about outrageous going rates!!

[Siegfried]

(12-23-2023 12:23 AM)Matt Agajanian Wrote:  Talk about outrageous going rates!!

That’s crazy. I have bought slightly used 35s for well less than a tenth of this.

[Maximilian Hohmann]

Hello!

(12-23-2023 12:23 AM)Matt Agajanian Wrote:  Talk about outrageous going rates!!

Now I am really impressed. This must be the proof that RPN is indeed still relevant ;-) For my cheapest 35S, yes, I am one of those hoarders who have more than one, I paid 1% of that figure. Even the HP-35 "red dot" that I could acquire recently cost only a fraction of that.

Regards
Max

[Voldemar]

(12-23-2023 08:51 AM)Maximilian Hohmann Wrote:  This must be the proof that RPN is indeed still relevant

Yes, it is