most modern design for an HP41 rom module?

[John Ioannidis]

what is the most recent design for a board that plugs into one of the ports and emulates an arbitrary number of ROMs (subject to address space availability, of course). I had built such a thing based on a PIC about 25 years ago; it was wire-wrapped and definitely not portable. Bonus points if it can understand the low-power states and stop drawing too much power when not in use.

Thanks!

/ji

[Raymond Del Tondo]

(08-03-2024 10:17 PM)John Ioannidis Wrote:  what is the most recent design for a board that plugs into one of the ports and emulates an arbitrary number of ROMs (subject to address space availability, of course).

I'm not really following the the specific threads, but for me it seems the 41-MAXX from Systemyde is the most recent approach.

[ThomasF]

There is also the Raspberry Pico solution.

Not only has it an "unlimited" flash space for all modules, but also resources and capabilities to emulate HW modules. Today we emulate the Wand, IR-Printer module, HP-IL (over USB) and the ET-11967 Service Module. Also RAM and XMEM is emulated (with flash backup etc).

And with USB connection to a PC, configuring the device (eg switching modules) is easy.

It even allows adding new peripheral instructions - e.g. I made a MCode program that can send a Focal program to the PC over USB or IR (see another posting for all details).

It also allows for real time tracing of the bus (all signals) - like a logic analyzer.

And the best thing is that it is a open device allowing anyone to program it to add new features (a development board is currently available).

It is not a really low power device but I use mine with a LiPo battery without any problems, and a miniature PCB (long module format) is being developed (search for Pico or Tulip) on this forum for more information.

Cheers,
Thomas

[floppy]

My guess is "Nov64d" from clonix41@gmail.com
The others are in development but not in my hands so far and so far I understood not available as a "turnKey" solution for now.

[MeindertKuipers]

Working hard to get to the first Development board version of TULIP4041, and then on to a module version, as Thomas referred to. As Thomas mentioned, this is not a low power solution, but the settings will all be saved when removed from the calculator. More info will come soon, preliminary details are here: https://github.com/mjakuipers/TULIP-DevBoard

[Sylvain Cote]

Diego Díaz (website, presentation)

• Clonix-D → HP-41 module with 48K Flash (12x ROM)
• NoV-64d → HP-41 module with 48K Flash(12x ROM) , 64K RAM (4x16K or 2x32K) & HEPAX emulation [can be reconfigured as a Clonix-D if needed]
• PICKit 2 → USB PIC Programmer for Clonix-D & NoV-64d modules used with ClonixConfig Windows configuration software
  

Monte Dalrymple (website, manuals)

• 41CL → HP-41 fullnut motherboard replacement
• MAXX → HP-41 module with: [in development, soon to be released]
  • Adds 4 x 82106A memory modules, if missing. (41C)
  • Adds 1 x 82180A X-Functions/Memory module, if missing. (41C/CV)
  • Adds 2 x 82181A X-Memory modules, if missing. (41C/CV/CX)
  • Adds 1 x 82182A Time module, if missing. (41C/CV)
  • Adds 3 x 1K Y-Memory RAM registers. (41C/CV/CX)
  • Adds 12 x 4K bank capable Q-ROM pages. (41C/CV/CX)
  • Adds 1 x 4K MAXX ROM. (41C/CV/CX)
    

Intertwine projects ...

Andrew

• pico41 DIY Project (thread, github)
  

ThomasF

• HP-82242A IR Printer Module (thread)
  

Meindert Kuipers (dev.board, thread, github)

• TULIP4041 → HP-41 USB interface module with: [in development, soon to be released, long module format like the HP-IL interface]
  • HP41 bus tracer with disassembler
  • Full ROM/QROM/MLDL emulator with bankswitching
  • User Memory and Extended Memory emulation
  • Virtual HP-IL & PILBox emulation to a host PC with pyILPer or ILPer
  • Micro SD card slot for IL drive simulation and access to ROM, MOD, RAW files
  • IR printing with Blinky and much much more
    

[John Ioannidis]

(08-04-2024 06:25 AM)ThomasF Wrote:  There is also the Raspberry Pico solution.

Not only has it an "unlimited" flash space for all modules, but also resources and capabilities to emulate HW modules. Today we emulate the Wand, IR-Printer module, HP-IL (over USB) and the ET-11967 Service Module. Also RAM and XMEM is emulated (with flash backup etc).

And with USB connection to a PC, configuring the device (eg switching modules) is easy.

It even allows adding new peripheral instructions - e.g. I made a MCode program that can send a Focal program to the PC over USB or IR (see another posting for all details).

It also allows for real time tracing of the bus (all signals) - like a logic analyzer.

And the best thing is that it is a open device allowing anyone to program it to add new features (a development board is currently available).

It is not a really low power device but I use mine with a LiPo battery without any problems, and a miniature PCB (long module format) is being developed (search for Pico or Tulip) on this forum for more information.

Cheers,
Thomas

WHy didn't you post a link?

[rprosperi]

(08-04-2024 07:09 PM)John Ioannidis Wrote:  WHy didn't you post a link?

The link is in the follow-up post from the author Meindert Kuipers:

https://github.com/mjakuipers/TULIP-DevBoard

[John Ioannidis]

(08-04-2024 02:41 PM)MeindertKuipers Wrote:  Working hard to get to the first Development board version of TULIP4041, and then on to a module version, as Thomas referred to. As Thomas mentioned, this is not a low power solution, but the settings will all be saved when removed from the calculator. More info will come soon, preliminary details are here: https://github.com/mjakuipers/TULIP-DevBoard

Thanks, but not useful if you don't publish the software! I'd be making my own PCB anyway.

While we are at it, why use the combination of 4050 and 40109 to do the level-shifting, instead of just a TXB0108 or an SN74LVC8T245? Are the bidirectional signals open-drain, and only need to be pulled down, in which case something like https://www.adafruit.com/product/757 with weaker pullups would do the trick?

/ji

[Monte Dalrymple]

(08-06-2024 02:34 AM)John Ioannidis Wrote:  

(08-04-2024 02:41 PM)MeindertKuipers Wrote:  Working hard to get to the first Development board version of TULIP4041, and then on to a module version, as Thomas referred to. As Thomas mentioned, this is not a low power solution, but the settings will all be saved when removed from the calculator. More info will come soon, preliminary details are here: https://github.com/mjakuipers/TULIP-DevBoard

Thanks, but not useful if you don't publish the software! I'd be making my own PCB anyway.

While we are at it, why use the combination of 4050 and 40109 to do the level-shifting, instead of just a TXB0108 or an SN74LVC8T245? Are the bidirectional signals open-drain, and only need to be pulled down, in which case something like https://www.adafruit.com/product/757 with weaker pullups would do the trick?

/ji

Both the TXB0108 or an SN74LVC8T245 are 5.5V max. The 41 bus is 6V. The 40109 has much better supply current also.

[MeindertKuipers]

(08-06-2024 02:34 AM)John Ioannidis Wrote:  Thanks, but not useful if you don't publish the software! I'd be making my own PCB anyway.

No worries, all sources will be published, when it is in a publishable state (BETA release), just as the PCB layout. When I have collected the orders for the Development board until mid August I will order the PCBs and verify. When these are verified the layout will be published as well. Happy to send any available sources before that if you want these. I am not holding back any information, just want to make sure that it is all useable.

[ThomasF]

(08-06-2024 02:34 AM)John Ioannidis Wrote:  Thanks, but not useful if you don't publish the software! I'd be making my own PCB anyway.

I gave a lot of hints on where to start looking.
Both me and Meindert has made our own PCBs after reading the original post, see the following link: https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-20...light=Pico
Andrew published both the schematic and the software which we have based our own development on. I would happily share my code if someone really was interested, but since it is not meant for distribution (yet) and so far only for my own testing and verification - please note that this is really still work in progress - I have not published it.

As Monte said, the voltage specification, but also the possibility to enable each bus line separately, which is useful in some cases. After some testing we ended up with 4050 and the 40109, but there are certainly other options as well.

Cheers,
Thomas

[John Ioannidis]

(08-06-2024 03:15 AM)Monte Dalrymple Wrote:  

(08-06-2024 02:34 AM)John Ioannidis Wrote:  Thanks, but not useful if you don't publish the software! I'd be making my own PCB anyway.

While we are at it, why use the combination of 4050 and 40109 to do the level-shifting, instead of just a TXB0108 or an SN74LVC8T245? Are the bidirectional signals open-drain, and only need to be pulled down, in which case something like https://www.adafruit.com/product/757 with weaker pullups would do the trick?

/ji

Both the TXB0108 or an SN74LVC8T245 are 5.5V max. The 41 bus is 6V. The 40109 has much better supply current also.

Ah, that explains why I had used a bunch of BSS138 with pullups (like in the adafruit circuit I referenced) when I needed to go between 3.3V and 12V in a recent project. I'm so used to going from 5V to 3.3V, and occasionally down to 1.9V that I forgot about the upper limit

What do you use to make your boards? I use jlcpcb.com, and also use their assembly service for placing passive components. They are really cheap, and still very high quality. A recent order of five boards, ~150x50mm, four layers, ENIG finish, each with about 20 resistors and capacitors and six transistors, were around $60, $17 being the cost of parts+assembly. Definitely worth it. They don't have a good selection of ICs in stock, but I can still hand-solder down to TSSOP, so that's not a problem.

I don't have any affiliation with them other than being a very satisfied customer.

Here is an example (in this case, they happened to have the ftdi chip in stock, so I only had to solder the IR LED) https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-20143.html

[MeindertKuipers]

(08-06-2024 07:12 PM)John Ioannidis Wrote:  Ah, that explains why I had used a bunch of BSS138 with pullups (like in the adafruit circuit I referenced) when I needed to go between 3.3V and 12V in a recent project. I'm so used to going from 5V to 3.3V, and occasionally down to 1.9V that I forgot about the upper limit

The BSS138 solution is quite well known and works in many applications. Problem is that these have pullups and the HP41 signals are all pulled down (except FI). For driving the HP41 bus I have also used the HCT125, which has an absolute maximum supply of 7V, which is just OK for the HP41. Anything rated up to 6V is not very suitable for HP41 interfacing.
For input from the HP41 system to a lower voltage system you could use a voltage divider, but this creates a constant load between supply and GND and could create a delay, so values have to be picked carefully. I will stick to the 4050/40109 combo, but it would be good to have an alternative and more compact solution, and one more input on the 4050 would be of great help.
And I do get my PCB's from JLCPCB as well, good service and quality. I have yet to experience their assembly service.

[emefff]

(08-03-2024 10:17 PM)John Ioannidis Wrote:  what is the most recent design for a board that plugs into one of the ports and emulates an arbitrary number of ROMs (subject to address space availability, of course). I had built such a thing based on a PIC about 25 years ago; it was wire-wrapped and definitely not portable. Bonus points if it can understand the low-power states and stop drawing too much power when not in use.

Thanks!

/ji

Hello,

from my point of view, most definitely NoV-64D and one or two of the other modules from Diego Diaz. They are, to my knowledge, the only ones with flash memory. For me, this is a big plus. You can transfer your own user programs to another 41c and they are permanent (meaning if your battery goes dead, they're still available) in the flash. I'm sure, I do not know all modules, but apart from exotic ones (of which many are not made anymore), Diego's modules are the only ones that can do that. Also, even Diego's high end module NoV-64D is cheaper than many exotic original modules, like PPC, HEPAX (which itself also only has volatile SRAM memory BTW) etc. Of the original modules, only the X-FUNCTIONS can transfer your own user programs to another 41, but you have to be very quick (switch module within seconds).

emefff.

[ThomasF]

(08-09-2024 08:47 AM)emefff Wrote:  They are, to my knowledge, the only ones with flash memory. For me, this is a big plus.

The coming Pico devices has a lot of flash memory and will have a file system as well for easy module handling. So it could hold many modules (just like the DM41X), and with a easy config to plug/unplug modules.

E.g. my Pico device have 16MB flash, so most of all available modules will probably fit ...

With the option to add peripheral instructions, it will even be possible to make the plug/unplug as an internal 41-instruction, i.e. it will be possible to list all available modules and then plug any of these modules from the flash to any port directly from the 41 keyboard, maybe even programmable (and that would open a new world - live module swapping)!

Let's see what we could do ...

Cheers,
Thomas