What happened to HPs tooling molds

[HPing]

What happened to HP's old plastic tooling?

Did Morivia receive the tooling (or access) for some of the older calculators that are not being sold?

I am thinking for purposes of re-relasing more "older designs" with new internals. Ramping up spares would be really expensive even with the molds in pristine condition, so that niche market probably wouldn't have any legs.

[AnnoyedOne]

(10-25-2024 01:51 PM)HPing Wrote:  What happened to HP's old plastic tooling?

From what little I've heard HP didn't keep/archive old stuff (code/drawings/etc) so any old plastic mould information is likely gone.

Because the HP-12C has been in production for over 40 years the Voyager models are the exception. Thus the HP-15C CE (it also uses HP-12C "guts"), 12CP etc.

A1

[Jase]

I wonder if Morivia could/would ever team up with SwissMicros.
If SwissMicros could have 15CE keys -- Wow!!!
(Yeah, I know it won't happen. Just dreaming)

[emefff]

Hello,

just my thoughts having worked in the die-casting industry for years:
-) using old injection mold tools on today's machines would not give an advantage because today's machine are not the same in terms of: tonnage, sprue design, clamps etc. Any old old tool has to be adapted since 50 year old machines are not around anymore and are not feasible in operation (or even not safe to operate!). Repairs on old machines are not feasible anyway, they belong in museums.
-) plastics have improved
-) tool materials have improved, today we can use materials that have super long lifetimes (ESR steels if needed, I am not sure the injection mold people use them, kinda pricey but sometimes worth it)
-) every tool is CFD simulated today thus a modern tool is cheaper AND more efficient at the same time.
-) modern tool design has less secondary material today (the stuff that is thrown away intentionally, runners and overflows)
-) modern designs lead to less scrap (complete shots thrown away unintentionally, due to defects in the parts)
-) any old part can be 3D scanned within minutes/hours depending on size
-) model cleaning takes hours
-) runner and overflow design takes a few days or 1 week (a few iterations needed in CFD simulation included)
-) tool design with sliders takes a week or two weeks
-) tool manufacturing takes weeks or a month.

So essentially, what I am trying to say is that old tools are more less not worth the hassle. Also, there is great chance they are unusable anyway depending on how they were stored. They could be corroded, have extensive wear, or gunk in cooling lines etc. or could be 'unadaptable' to a modern injection molding machine due to design differences or other 'mishaps' in their past usage. Also, they could have been successful due to tricks applied by the operators back then, that cannot be done on a modern machine for safety reasons or efficiency. Another thing is, it is likely there are no existing CAD models of the old parts that are needed anyway today for quality control etc., so a redesign is needed for that reason alone!

emefff

EDIT: Sorry, I use die-casting terms. I know the plastic people have different names for some of the terms I used here :-)

[Jase]

(10-26-2024 08:09 AM)emefff Wrote:  Hello,

just my thoughts having worked in the die-casting industry for years:...

Thank you. Good information.

[HPing]

Very informative responses; thank you.

[Allen]

(10-25-2024 01:51 PM)HPing Wrote:  that niche market probably wouldn't have any legs.

I would suggest the entire 2024 calculator market is in decline. I've been following prices and demand for 18 years. For calculators made before ~1990 (pre-pioneer series) the market prices seem to be buttressed by low supply, not high demand.

Possibly we are seeing an equilibrium where decreasing supply always falls just short of the decreasing demand, making prices decline slightly less than either market force.

Sadly after several decades of scarcity, economic substitution has further eroded demand for these beautiful machines.

[AnnoyedOne]

(10-26-2024 02:29 PM)Allen Wrote:  I would suggest the entire 2024 calculator market is in decline.

Unfortunately you're probably correct.

These days most use a Smartphone (aka tracking device) app, AI or in the case of some students a graphical/CAS calculator that does the thinking for them.

Personally a calculator is for numeric calculations. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Then again I'm a "dinosaur".

A1

[Eric Rechlin]

(10-26-2024 02:29 PM)Allen Wrote:  

(10-25-2024 01:51 PM)HPing Wrote:  that niche market probably wouldn't have any legs.

I would suggest the entire 2024 calculator market is in decline. I've been following prices and demand for 18 years. For calculators made before ~1990 (pre-pioneer series) the market prices seem to be buttressed by low supply, not high demand.

Possibly we are seeing an equilibrium where decreasing supply always falls just short of the decreasing demand, making prices decline slightly less than either market force.

Sadly after several decades of scarcity, economic substitution has further eroded demand for these beautiful machines.

This is a very long way to say that calculator-collectors are dying off only slightly faster than their heirs are throwing their collections in the trash (instead of selling them).

[mfleming]

(10-26-2024 03:00 PM)Eric Rechlin Wrote:  

(10-26-2024 02:29 PM)Allen Wrote:  I would suggest the entire 2024 calculator market is in decline. I've been following prices and demand for 18 years. For calculators made before ~1990 (pre-pioneer series) the market prices seem to be buttressed by low supply, not high demand.

Possibly we are seeing an equilibrium where decreasing supply always falls just short of the decreasing demand, making prices decline slightly less than either market force.

Sadly after several decades of scarcity, economic substitution has further eroded demand for these beautiful machines.

This is a very long way to say that calculator-collectors are dying off only slightly faster than their heirs are throwing their collections in the trash (instead of selling them).

Probably because the only potential buyers already have the models in their collection <sigh>