RPN83P: RPN calculator for TI-83+ TI-84+ inspired by HP-42S

[bxparks]

(11-07-2024 04:26 PM)spiff72 Wrote:  Will I need to update it to the latest OS or Firmware before using this RPN app? If so, is that done with the TI Connect application?

My guess is that it will work just fine, but since almost all my testing was done with the latest version (2.55MP), I recommend upgrading. It does not take much effort, and I cannot think of a downside. Yes with TI Connect.

[bxparks]

(11-06-2024 09:29 PM)gentzel Wrote:  TI-nspire and TI-84 Plus Pocket SE

Nice. The Pocket SE is extremely rare in the US. I believe they were created for the East Asian market. They pop up on eBay only a few times year, but at a price that's too high for something I don't really need. I do wish I had one for testing purposes.

[gentzel]

(11-08-2024 04:23 PM)bxparks Wrote:  The Pocket SE is extremely rare in the US. I believe they were created for the East Asian market. They pop up on eBay only a few times year, but at a price that's too high for something I don't really need. I do wish I had one for testing purposes.

I picked this one up on eBay for $40, which was just at the limit of what I was willing to pay. I do like the form factor.

[Helix]

(11-08-2024 04:02 PM)bxparks Wrote:  There's apparently another marketplace for calculators called "TAS" that is mentioned occasionally in these forums, but I don't know anything about it.

TAS = The Auction Site = eBay.

[spiff72]

(11-08-2024 04:16 PM)bxparks Wrote:  

(11-07-2024 04:26 PM)spiff72 Wrote:  Will I need to update it to the latest OS or Firmware before using this RPN app? If so, is that done with the TI Connect application?

My guess is that it will work just fine, but since almost all my testing was done with the latest version (2.55MP), I recommend upgrading. It does not take much effort, and I cannot think of a downside. Yes with TI Connect.

I ended up leaving the firmware as is. TI Connect seems like a mess on both Windows 11 and Mac OS. Freezing, crashing, not seeing the calculator, etc. It doesn’t seem stable enough to do a system update, but I got the Mac version to run long enough to transfer the RPN83 file across.

[bxparks]

(11-08-2024 10:28 PM)Helix Wrote:  

(11-08-2024 04:02 PM)bxparks Wrote:  There's apparently another marketplace for calculators called "TAS" that is mentioned occasionally in these forums, but I don't know anything about it.

TAS = The Auction Site = eBay.

Ha, I see. I'm not sure the inside joke is worth the obfuscation..

[bxparks]

(11-08-2024 11:12 PM)spiff72 Wrote:  I ended up leaving the firmware as is. TI Connect seems like a mess on both Windows 11 and Mac OS. Freezing, crashing, not seeing the calculator, etc. It doesn’t seem stable enough to do a system update, but I got the Mac version to run long enough to transfer the RPN83 file across.

I don't have any hardware that can run Windows 11. I know that TI Connect works on Windows 10.

Which version of MacOS? The latest that I have is Monterey (MacOS 12). I have a vague recollection of installing and using TI Connect on that version, but not 100% sure.

[spiff72]

(11-09-2024 12:05 AM)bxparks Wrote:  

(11-08-2024 11:12 PM)spiff72 Wrote:  I ended up leaving the firmware as is. TI Connect seems like a mess on both Windows 11 and Mac OS. Freezing, crashing, not seeing the calculator, etc. It doesn’t seem stable enough to do a system update, but I got the Mac version to run long enough to transfer the RPN83 file across.

I don't have any hardware that can run Windows 11. I know that TI Connect works on Windows 10.

Which version of MacOS? The latest that I have is Monterey (MacOS 12). I have a vague recollection of installing and using TI Connect on that version, but not 100% sure.

I'm running Sequoia (15.1) on an M1-based Macbook Pro.

[Liamtoh Resu]

Several thoughts on this thread:

) The rpn83p app is great. I am running it on a TI84 plus.

) I would like to see a DDAYS or DDAY function on the app. I would think that the
HP Prime notation (YYYY/MM/DA) could be implemented on the rpn83p.

) Although I used a HP 35 back in the day when the HS math department would
let me borrow it overnight, my first HP calculator was a HP 33s which I found
at a local walmart. I do not have "muscle memory" for my other HP calculators.

) The TI Connect app runs fine on my Win 8.1 laptop.

Thanks.

[jthole]

(11-09-2024 05:50 PM)Liamtoh Resu Wrote:  ) I would like to see a DDAYS or DDAY function on the app. I would think that the
HP Prime notation (YYYY/MM/DA) could be implemented on the rpn83p.

DDAYS is there already: put two dates on the stack, and hit "-".

[Liamtoh Resu]

Thanks.

I was able to do the DDAYS function after some persistence.

[bxparks]

(11-09-2024 07:13 PM)Liamtoh Resu Wrote:  Thanks.

I was able to do the DDAYS function after some persistence.

The DATE functions on RPN83P exceed the capabilities of any calculator that I am aware of. They are documented here: https://github.com/bxparks/rpn83p/blob/d...DE_DATE.md

The price of all that functionality is more complexity, but it shouldn't have taken *too* much persistence. I tried to do the best I could given the limitations of the TI-84+ keyboard bindings, and the limited LCD screen space, but let me know if you think I missed something obvious.

With regards to the "YYYY/MM/DD" format, I don't have an HP Prime so cannot comment on how that works. For RPN83P, the "/" button is used as the "division" operator, so it cannot be used as a field-separator. I also cannot use the ISO 8601 format of "YYYY-MM-DD", because the "-" button is used as the "subtraction" operator. The best alternative was the "," button which is a primary unshifted button on the 84+. So a date object is entered as "{2024,11,9}".

[Liamtoh Resu]

Thanks agsain for the great application.

The backgournd information on the state of rpn calculators and dates was a great inspiration
for loading the app on my TI84plus (which I obtained at a thrift store).

I went to the date information page: https://github.com/bxparks/rpn83p/blob/d...DE_DATE.md

I could not figure out how to get to the date menu. I later got it by pressing the [math] key
and pressing the [down arrow] key twice.

From there I was able to figure out the DDAYS function on your application.

I am guilty of not reading all of the documentation.

From the entry:
"DATE Menus

The following menus items are located under the DATE menu. A short synopsis of each menu function is listed here. More detailed descriptions are given in later subsections below.

ROOT > DATE

"
I could not figure out how to get to the DATE menu.

I hope this explains my difficulty in finding the DDATE function.


Once again, thanks for the great application!

[bxparks]

(11-10-2024 06:38 PM)Liamtoh Resu Wrote:  From the entry:
"DATE Menus

The following menus items are located under the DATE menu. A short synopsis of each menu function is listed here. More detailed descriptions are given in later subsections below.
ROOT > DATE
"
I could not figure out how to get to the DATE menu.

I'm curious to get a baseline: Are you familiar with the HP-42S calculator? And, did you happen to read the
Menu Hierarchy section of the main USER_GUIDE.md file which describes how the RPN83P menu hierarchy works?

I agree that, out of context, it might not be obvious how to get to DATE. With that in mind, I have updated the USER_GUIDE_DATE.md file with explicit instructions:

1) At the very top of the top of the USER_GUIDE_DATE.md file, I have added:
"The DATE features are available under the ROOT > DATE menu folder in the 3rd row. Press HOME (i.e. MATH), DOWN, then DOWN again to get to: ..."

2) In the DATE Menus section of USER_GUIDE_DATE.md, I have added:
"The following menus items are located under the DATE menu folder (which can be found in the 3rd row of the ROOT menu folder: HOME (i.e. MATH), DOWN, DOWN)."

Hope that helps.

[Liamtoh Resu]

Thanks for your reply.

I am not familiar with the HP-42S. The swissmicros version and the 42S are out of financial reach at this time. I do have the free42 application installed on windows.

I will have to read more of the RPN83P documentation when my mind is up to it ( my limitation).

I don't know if you have any refrences to the hpmuseum forum on your site. It might help
TI users who have little knowledge of the HP "universe".

I appreciate all of the effort you are putting into this project.

[bxparks]

(11-10-2024 09:39 PM)Liamtoh Resu Wrote:  I am not familiar with the HP-42S. The swissmicros version and the 42S are out of financial reach at this time. I do have the free42 application installed on windows.

Becoming familiar with the HP-42S is probably the best segue to RPN83P. The Free42 app on Android is excellent, almost as good as an actual calculator. I suspect that the iPhone version is just as good.

I can sympathize with the financial constraints. I could not get an HP calculator as a kid. As an adult, I can now afford any calculator I want without blinking too much, but it's hard to let go of the poverty mindset. No SwissMicros for me either. I created RPN83P for people like me. :-)

(11-10-2024 09:39 PM)Liamtoh Resu Wrote:  I don't know if you have any refrences to the hpmuseum forum on your site. It might help
TI users who have little knowledge of the HP "universe".

I link to this very thread in the Feedback and Support section of the top-level README.md. I link to Free42 and the HP-42S manual in the Basic Usage section of the USER_GUIDE.md. I explain that it is beyond the scope of the RPN83P project to teach RPN to new users. I really don't have the bandwidth, but also, there are many other resources and people who have done far better jobs of that.

[spiff72]

Is it correct that the "nSTK" mode that's available on free42 and DM42 is not available for RPN83P?

I did see the SSIZ option can expand the stack to 8, but I was curious if the "infinite" stack size was an option.

[bxparks]

(11-11-2024 02:58 AM)spiff72 Wrote:  Is it correct that the "nSTK" mode that's available on free42 and DM42 is not available for RPN83P?

I did see the SSIZ option can expand the stack to 8, but I was curious if the "infinite" stack size was an option.

That is correct, NSTK is *not* available in RPN83P. A couple of reasons:

1) Usefulness. I'm not convinced that an "infinite" stack is particularly useful. Maybe if/when RPN83P becomes programmable, it could become more useful. But even then, the programming environment will be RPN, not RPL where the stack is far more critical. I think for RPN83P programs, a "local" stack feature would be more useful than an "infinite" stack.

2) Technical limitations. The RPN83P app is one of many other TI-OS apps that must coexist on the TI-83/84 calculator. All applications must share the ~24 kB of RAM provided by the OS. The memory management system provided by the TI-OS is limited and customized for the TI calculator environment: there is no general purpose "heap" memory for example. With my current knowledge of the TI-OS, I actually cannot think of a way to implement an "infinite" stack efficiently, both in terms of CPU cycles, and memory space. Every resizing of an OS appVariable causes defragmentation (because the OS is optimized to conserve memory), so it is a very expensive CPU operation. The alternative is to use an amortized O(1) allocation process, but that would waste significant amounts of precious memory.

With so many other features that could go into RPN83P, NSTK falls so low in the priority list that I doubt it will ever be implemented. Now, if an 8-level stack is insufficient, it is possible to increase the maximum size to something bigger without too much work. But I'd be curious to learn why 8 levels is not enough.

[Liamtoh Resu]

About pressing the [STAT] menu

For the section from the user guide:

"
Menu Shortcuts

Some menu groups can be accessed quickly through dedicated keys on the TI calculator which happen to have the same label as the menu item:

MODE: bound to ROOT > MODE
STAT: bound to ROOT > STAT
MATH: repurposed to be HOME (aka ROOT)
"
Should the STAT group be worded ?
STAT: bound to ROOT > [down arrow] > STAT


Thanks

[spiff72]

(11-11-2024 04:41 PM)bxparks Wrote:  

(11-11-2024 02:58 AM)spiff72 Wrote:  Is it correct that the "nSTK" mode that's available on free42 and DM42 is not available for RPN83P?

I did see the SSIZ option can expand the stack to 8, but I was curious if the "infinite" stack size was an option.

That is correct, NSTK is *not* available in RPN83P. A couple of reasons:

1) Usefulness. I'm not convinced that an "infinite" stack is particularly useful. Maybe if/when RPN83P becomes programmable, it could become more useful. But even then, the programming environment will be RPN, not RPL where the stack is far more critical. I think for RPN83P programs, a "local" stack feature would be more useful than an "infinite" stack.

2) Technical limitations. The RPN83P app is one of many other TI-OS apps that must coexist on the TI-83/84 calculator. All applications must share the ~24 kB of RAM provided by the OS. The memory management system provided by the TI-OS is limited and customized for the TI calculator environment: there is no general purpose "heap" memory for example. With my current knowledge of the TI-OS, I actually cannot think of a way to implement an "infinite" stack efficiently, both in terms of CPU cycles, and memory space. Every resizing of an OS appVariable causes defragmentation (because the OS is optimized to conserve memory), so it is a very expensive CPU operation. The alternative is to use an amortized O(1) allocation process, but that would waste significant amounts of precious memory.

With so many other features that could go into RPN83P, NSTK falls so low in the priority list that I doubt it will ever be implemented. Now, if an 8-level stack is insufficient, it is possible to increase the maximum size to something bigger without too much work. But I'd be curious to learn why 8 levels is not enough.

No worries at all - I had just found that nSTK was my preferred mode on my DM42 when I had it "stock". My personal history with HP calcs was ownership of an HP48SX in college, and I later bought a 50g when I was well out of college. As a result, RPL is what I am most familiar with. I'm used to hitting the DROP key and having the stack drop down as each level is removed.

I have been running DB48x on my DM42 to bring back that familiarity with RPL.