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walter b · (This post was last modified: 02-18-2015 08:11 AM by Dave Hicks.)

[Moderator note: please don't attempt to reopen closed threads. Back to calculators please. Thank you.]

walter b · 02-18-2015, 08:09 AM

(02-06-2015 01:15 AM)walter b Wrote: These errors persist. :( Is there anybody taking care of them? TIA

How about focussing on the important parts of administration? TIA

d:-/

walter b · (This post was last modified: 02-18-2015 08:25 AM by Dave Hicks.)

[Moderator note: please don't attempt to reopen closed threads. Back to calculators please. Thank you.]

walter b · 02-18-2015, 09:59 AM

Just learned that our dear administration in its infinite wisdom and benignity has sentenced me to some time of "moderation"; as usual without telling for how long. Well, I can't avoid feeling reminded of Russian or Chinese or North Korean methods of dealing with "unpleasant news".

Since I experienced some censorship recently, I'll save this post - so it's no use deleting it, it will show up again.

Why is it so difficult to act reasonably in the South-West of God's Own Country?

d:-?

**Dave Hicks** · 02-18-2015, 04:41 PM

The moderation was supposed to be until you cooled down about whatever it was this time. I thought I had already removed the posts that offended you, but apparently that wasn't sufficient or you didn't notice. Originally it was going to be for 12 hours but that time also appears to be insufficient. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

I do agree that needing to keep a lid on a member's outbursts is unpleasant. Unfortunately it is not news. It's happened around 3 times before in the 17 years of this forum. (Only one of those is still banned.) This particular case has been allowed to go on for longer than any of those largely because I now have 3 moderators and thus can spread the unpleasantness around. (Though all of them are tired of it now.)

BTW if I had been following our standard warning/point system, you could have gotten yourself banned last night. I would have never imagined that that could happen when I set it up. No other member has ever come close to it - indeed far less than 1% of members have ever received a warning, and no other member has received more than one warning! But I could tell that you were upset and not thinking clearly, so I just cleaned up after you and assigned a single warning for the whole affair. Obviously I'm not trying to kick you off the forum, but I am trying to keep it comfortable for most users and almost entirely about calculators.

**Dave Hicks** · (This post was last modified: 02-18-2015 04:52 PM by Dave Hicks.)

(02-18-2015 08:09 AM)walter b Wrote:
(02-06-2015 01:15 AM)walter b Wrote: These errors persist. Is there anybody taking care of them? TIA

How about focussing on the important parts of administration? TIA

d

We've been too busy dealing with your other matters. Smile

Seriously, I have seen nothing new from the software developers on this, and they haven't suggested that it is anything specific to this site so I feel it makes more sense to let them work on it for the broader community. Though if they are working on it at this moment, I couldn't tell you because like me, they work for free. (To be fair you can't tell the status of debugging with a lot of paid software either.)

I would suggest linear mode on that thread at least.

walter b · 02-18-2015, 05:15 PM

Thanks, Dave, for responding. I see that's not necessarily priority 1 on the bug list, but it's more than an exception since it showed up in two threads at least. I'll keep my head up and report further occurences as soon as observed. Hope it helps them find the cause.

d:-)

BTW, I just deleted my second post in that matter of today since I only wrote it in reaction to the first being swallowed by system mechanics.

walter b · 02-25-2015, 04:24 PM

According to everything I've learned on this forum, this post (http://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/showthread...&pid=28530) should be edited at least to remove the insulting parts of it. I reported it the very day it was posted - but nothing happened so far. I sincerely hope that the moderators find their way back to balanced verdicts.

d:-?

P.S.: You should know me - I'll continue pointing to such cases until such ... ummh ... one-eyed situations have reached equilibrium again. And I apologize in advance for any wrong word I may have chosen in a foreign language.

**Dave Hicks** · (This post was last modified: 02-25-2015 04:55 PM by Dave Hicks.)

(02-25-2015 04:24 PM)walter b Wrote: I reported it the very day it was posted - but nothing happened so far.

Yes, far from 100% of post reports are acted on. It is sometimes a difficult balance between the wide open say anything you want forum that some people want and the make all the unpleasantries go away forum that other people want. The moderators manage it as well as they can.

walter b · 02-25-2015, 05:07 PM

(02-25-2015 04:55 PM)Dave Hicks Wrote: It is sometimes a difficult balance between the wide open say anything you want forum that some people want and the make all the unpleasantries go away forum that other people want. The moderators manage it as well as they can.

Absolutely fine as long as they do it in an even-handed way - so an unbiased observer can recognize easily that equal misconduct is treated equally.

d:-?

walter b · 02-28-2015, 09:15 AM

To the honourable moderators:

AFAICS, it turns out that the ban posed on a particular user was based on false assumptions (see http://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-312...l#pid29000 ). So I respectfully ask the court to lift that ban correcting that miscarriage of justice. It's up to you whether one or more excuses are due in that matter.

Thanks in advance for putting things right.

d:-)

walter b · (This post was last modified: 02-28-2015 09:57 PM by walter b.)

You might wonder why I do this although it's for the benefit of a person I don't even know at all. It's just since I have an irrationally strong disgust at injustice (be it by people, organisations, or states). And banning a member just for assuming (without reasonable proof) it may be somebody else is simply unjust. That's all.

I wonder if the moderators are man enough (sorry, Katie) to openly correct what they did wrong. So far, they closed threads when it became tight for them instead. Well, let's see and assess their deeds.

d:-)

(Edited to correct an error in a foreign language. Thanks, Mark!)

Mark Hardman · 02-28-2015, 09:24 PM

(02-28-2015 09:15 PM)walter b Wrote: I wonder if the moderators are men enough (sorry, Katie) to openly correct what they did wrong. So far, they closed threads when it became tight for them instead. Well, let's see and assess their deeds.

d:-)

FYI

The colloquialism is "man enough".

walter b · 02-28-2015, 09:30 PM

(02-28-2015 09:24 PM)Mark Hardman Wrote:
(02-28-2015 09:15 PM)walter b Wrote: I wonder if the moderators are men enough (sorry, Katie) to openly correct what they did wrong. So far, they closed threads when it became tight for them instead. Well, let's see and assess their deeds.

d:-)

FYI

The colloquialism is "man enough".

Thanks for your information. I assumed 'men' since they are more than one. I apologize for that error in a foreign language.

d:-)

d b · 02-28-2015, 11:03 PM

Walter;

Neither Dave or Katie did it. I did it. Me alone. You should quit taunting them, as you were just doing, before people start "reporting" you. That always ends badly.

I can't just OK multiple user names with one request from you, but if you can get your 4th account to agree with your 1st about lifting the ban on your 2nd and 3rd identities, maybe something can be done.

Six of your last seven posts were about you, how I am persecuting you, and pleas to some "court". This, and your quote button, is one way to rack up over 1600 posts. -db

**Dave Hicks** · (This post was last modified: 03-01-2015 04:54 AM by Dave Hicks.)

I think it's possible that Ray is a separate person who got swept up in a fracas so I have reinstated him. He would, of course, be wise to avoid this and other brouhahas (no offense Eric!), as would everyone else. Possibly Ray may not be happy here as currently about half of his posts are complaining about the forum, rather than talking about the actual subject matter, but we can all give it another chance and see how things work out.

Oddly enough I got whipped up in a fracas like this when I was fairly new to a forum (on an entirely different subject.) I too got banned for a while. In thinking back, I realize that one of the reasons I got whipped up into that was because I really wasn't that interested in the real subject matter of the forum, so this meta-subject matter caught my attention. Meanwhile most of the people on the forum didn't know me that well, and got suspicious about some stranger's apparent support of another guy. (Who I later learned was banned from nearly all the forums on this subject.)

Switching from Ray to someone else, we've had multiple post reports today from multiple people, about one member's posts in multiple threads. One of the reporters said it's time for a permanent ban, and I do understand the sentiment (and may even agree with it at some point in the future if things don't improve) but I have only applied a warning which will automatically result in a short vacation.

Edit: I am now convinced that Ray is a separate person who got caught up in something.

d b · 03-01-2015, 07:46 AM

(03-01-2015 04:31 AM)Dave Hicks Wrote: I think it's possible that Ray is a separate person who got swept up in a fracas so I have reinstated him. He would, of course, be wise to avoid this and other brouhahas (no offense Eric!), as would everyone else. Possibly Ray may not be happy here as currently about half of his posts are complaining about the forum, rather than talking about the actual subject matter, but we can all give it another chance and see how things work out.

Oddly enough I got whipped up in a fracas like this when I was fairly new to a forum (on an entirely different subject.) I too got banned for a while. In thinking back, I realize that one of the reasons I got whipped up into that was because I really wasn't that interested in the real subject matter of the forum, so this meta-subject matter caught my attention. Meanwhile most of the people on the forum didn't know me that well, and got suspicious about some stranger's apparent support of another guy. (Who I later learned was banned from nearly all the forums on this subject.)

Switching from Ray to someone else, we've had multiple post reports today from multiple people, about one member's posts in multiple threads. One of the reporters said it's time for a permanent ban, and I do understand the sentiment (and may even agree with it at some point in the future if things don't improve) but I have only applied a warning which will automatically result in a short vacation.

Edit: I am now convinced that Ray is a separate person who got caught up in something.

I was wrong. Ray is a real person All I can say as a reason I thought Ray was a shill account is that on the last day of Walter's earlier time out, which was extended for having a second account, based in Germany, used to taunt people, congratulate himself, and complain about the forum: Ray's third, fourth and fifth posts on another account based in Germany started up defending the same shenanigans. I took changing ISPs for something sneaky but that was not the case. Ray is a separate person, a member for at least 7 years and entitled to his opinions. So; I'm sorry for accusing you of being a fake Ray, and again, I was wrong.
I'm leaving tomorrow evening for three weeks in New Zeeland. We'll only have Carol's Iphone and it's too small to read so this would be a good time to discuss how stupidly I handled this. I won't have to know. -db

walter b · (This post was last modified: 03-08-2015 10:03 AM by walter b.)

Hi all,

WARNING: The following text may devastate your faith in justice. Keep it away from kids.

I recommend reading the thread here. Please note the silent editing (instead of open responding) by a moderator in messages #16, 25, 27, and 30. You will realize this editing stopped the very moment he (and another member) was proven being wrong. Both fell quiet and left their false statements there as they were.
+
In the thread I started to get the consequences of said moderator's error corrected, at least the ban posed on an innocent fellow member was lifted. I've heard said member even received an excuse per PM (but isn't satisfied AFAIK). All the false stuff, however, still reads in the public fora as it was before the moderator's enlightenment.
+
Please note the extensive editing and soon statements as long as the moderators thought being right - and compare with the coverage after they've been proven wrong in that matter. Additionally, the respective threads were closed before others could comment. Moderators use their rights in a way which doesn't always look impartial to observers. BTW, moderators may still add posts to and edit in closed threads. Watch them.
+
Rewarding the unvealing of said moderator's false judgement and initiating its correction I received - guess what? - 3 points for one year and an immediate ban of unknown duration. For comparison: Even in North Korea, convicts (after a 'fair' trial without defense as well) are told their sentence. So much about minimum standards and models for civilised treatment.
+
Asking the moderators for the missing information is like trying to communicate with a black hole. Wikipedia will tell you more about it.
+
Feel free to check other threads for symmetry of judgment as well. Take into account who's using English as his/her mother tongue and who's not. Can't help it, I'm quite sensitive to asymmetries.

Lessons learned? Well, what - I guess - they want us to learn:
Don't talk back! Right or wrong, my moderator! Don't stand up for equal rights. "And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other."

Just my observations obviously serving as the guinea pig for forum justice. Meanwhile, statistics suffice to assess said behavior of 'moderators' here isn't an exception but a regular pattern.

d:-/ (apologizing in advance for any wrong expression in a foreign language)

P.S.: Moderator (Latin) means a person tempering e.g. the moods of people in a discussion. This meaning is explained in German Wikipedia but not in the English one. The opposite term is agitator. Maybe a renaming should be considered here.

P.P.S.: By extrapolating the balanced forum policy as experienced in real life so far, this message might lead to another ban of unknown duration. No, not of said 'moderator' - heaven beware! After all, history has shown many times that beheading messengers carrying unwelcome messages is a sustainable way of not becoming disturbed by facts.

P.P.P.S.: I was told by an expert that one shouldn't use irony towards children <11 years of age - they simply can't understand it yet. Thus, keep the above text away from kids.

**Dave Hicks** · 03-08-2015, 02:39 PM

Ah, yet another morning where I wake up to post reports about the same guy, and two suggestions to permanently ban him so we can get back to calculators. Of course, real guinea pigs are locked in. Here we never do that, but when one little piggy can't get along, we do occasionally lock him out for a while. So, I'm going to try that again, first.

walter b · 04-09-2015, 08:27 PM

Seems to be related to deleting individual posts. Please see messages #21 and #23 in this thread. They are existing but not shown in the threaded thread overview. I know there were three more messages a few minutes before which were deliberately deleted by Bob and me. Seems the database ran in trouble with that.

HTH

d:-/