Color Blindness and HP Prime keys color choice

[Curlytop]

(01-19-2014 08:54 PM)patrice Wrote:  I also heard that orange/blue was chosen because it is a traditional HP color scheme.
The one that did it just forgot that the original color scheme was orange on black and blue on black.

The 10S calculator uses the same orange and blue, but it is on an all-white background and the captions are written above the keys, not on them. I have no difficulty using the 10S in work.

I'm not colour-blind but I agree that the final choice is bad - even I have difficulty distinguishing the orange letters, especially those on the number (grey) keys.

[HP67]

(01-20-2014 02:29 PM)Han Wrote:  I am certainly curious if there are plans on a second set of colors like they did with the HP50G. I just hope it isn't another flop (colorwise) as it was (for me) with the blue HP50G.

+1

The blue 50g is really atrocious. Not only did they pick colors with almost no contrast that get lost on the background, but the shift key colors don't even match the markings. Really, was this necessary? The black one is fine.

[HP67]

(01-14-2014 08:57 PM)Eddie W. Shore Wrote:  I also wouldn't mind if HP returned to the 48S color scheme, which had excellent contrast.

Yes, it is my favorite by far of post 1980 models. Very legible, and very nice looking.

(01-14-2014 08:58 PM)Eddie W. Shore Wrote:  What do you think of the green/purple scheme like on the 48G series?

I don't like it. I find it hard to see. I think most of us HP calculator fans are old enough that minor stuff like being able to see is not to be taken for granted! The S model was much easier on the eyes.

[ArielPalazzesi]

The HP48S and HP48SX are the best readable calculators. I like one HP Prime with these colors!!!!




48G is less readable. And 50G....well.....is a bad set of colors!

[Tim Wessman]

(02-11-2014 08:50 PM)HP67 Wrote:  The blue 50g is really atrocious. Not only did they pick colors with almost no contrast that get lost on the background

Did you ever use one? That unit actually has excellent contrast and is extremely readable for everyone including those with colorblindness issues. In pictures it looks like it would be really bad, but not in practice.

[ArielPalazzesi]

(02-11-2014 09:43 PM)Tim Wessman Wrote:  

(02-11-2014 08:50 PM)HP67 Wrote:  The blue 50g is really atrocious. Not only did they pick colors with almost no contrast that get lost on the background

Did you ever use one? That unit actually has excellent contrast and is extremely readable for everyone including those with colorblindness issues. In pictures it looks like it would be really bad, but not in practice.

I can read HP50G easy. And the HP48xx. But the light orange/light blue legends on Prime are more hard to read.

(by the way, i am 46 years old and my eyes are sooooowasted )

[donald Williams]

You might want to look at this information. I am sure it explains why I use the Casio 9600 rather than an HP.

Dark backgrounds are a bad idea

[Han]

I have to agree with a few of the previous posts -- the HP50G had an excellent color scheme. The only spots where you could argue that the HP50G had legibility issues were the soft menu keys (black text on dark grey). Even so, it was still quite legible.

[HP67]

(02-11-2014 09:43 PM)Tim Wessman Wrote:  

(02-11-2014 08:50 PM)HP67 Wrote:  The blue 50g is really atrocious. Not only did they pick colors with almost no contrast that get lost on the background

Did you ever use one? That unit actually has excellent contrast and is extremely readable for everyone including those with colorblindness issues. In pictures it looks like it would be really bad, but not in practice.

I have one but have not opened the package yet since after looking at it quite a lot I'm still trying to decide whether to keep it or sell it.

I have a hard time seeing the blue on blue and I also find the mismatch between the shift key colors and the markings that should match them (but don't) very disturbing. I realize color is a very personal thing but with all due respect I think the way this was done was a mistake in many ways.

On the black model the shift key colors match well enough that it's immediately obvious what the shift keys are for and the markings are high-contrast and very visible. With the blue it's hard to see and non-intuitive.

Look at Ariel's very nice shot above and contrast the way the SX keyboard jumps out at you as opposed to the 49G which is simply garish, ugly and hard to see.

[Joe Horn]

HP67 Wrote:The blue 50g is really atrocious. Not only did they pick colors with almost no contrast that get lost on the background, but the shift key colors don't even match the markings. ... I find the mismatch between the shift key colors and the markings that should match them (but don't) very disturbing.

The ALPHA shift key and the alpha letters are dark green.
The left-shift key and the left-shifted functions are light blue.
The right-shift key and the right-shifted functions are yellow.
They seem to me to match just fine. Or are you referring to the slight difference between the dark green ALPHA and the not-quite-as-dark letters? I'm not trying to start a war here ... I'm just wondering why you consider them disturbingly mismatched.

[HP67]

(02-12-2014 09:18 AM)Joe Horn Wrote:  The ALPHA shift key and the alpha letters are dark green.
The left-shift key and the left-shifted functions are light blue.
The right-shift key and the right-shifted functions are yellow.
They seem to me to match just fine. Or are you referring to the slight difference between the dark green ALPHA and the not-quite-as-dark letters? I'm not trying to start a war here ... I'm just wondering why you consider them disturbingly mismatched.

I have my new, still in the plastic 50g in front of me. Your picture shows the green markings much brighter than they actually appear. Yes, they're green, but they're not the same green as the green shift key, which appears to be very dark green.

The blue on the shift key seems lighter than and doesn't seem to match the blue markings on the top/left of each key.

The orange shift key doesn't match the apparently yellow markings on the top/right of each key.

So this is what I mean by disturbingly mismatched.

It could be argued it should be good enough that we get the idea that one green is related to another green and light blue ought to be good enough to tell us the darker blue corresponds to it, and the orange key ought to signal to us that the yellow keyboard markings are what it corresponds to then yes, we can figure it out. But should we have to?

Given the colors are close (somewhat) but no cigar, it is very hard on the eyes and doesn't seem like much thought was given to selecting them. The 48 models, on the other hand, have shift keys that match the keyboard markings exactly.

I believe it would have been a lot better if the colors on the shift keys exactly matched the keyboard markings, and if the keyboard marking colors would have been chosen to be very visible. I don't know how anybody can suggest that light blue markings on an only slighter darker blue background are any kind of a canonical example of legibility.

As it is, the yellow markings appear to be higher than the light blue markings on the dark blue background, which appear sunken. It hurts my eyes to look at it!

Now there is always the possibility that the colors used on the shift keys and on the keyboard are exactly the same pigments or are exactly the same wavelength. Still, that doesn't change the perception that the colors appear different, in context, on the actual device.

Are you looking at pic or do you have one or more blue 50g models in your vast collection? I think the pic looks better than the actual calculator, which is why I bought one in the first place!

[ArielPalazzesi]

(02-12-2014 07:42 AM)HP67 Wrote:  Look at Ariel's very nice shot above and contrast the way the SX keyboard jumps out at you as opposed to the 49G which is simply garish, ugly and hard to see.

(error: put on the photo copies of the DOS HP48SX: ()

[HP67]

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you said.

[ArielPalazzesi]

(02-12-2014 12:52 PM)HP67 Wrote:  I'm sorry, I don't understand what you said.

I meant to take a picture (by mistake) of a HP48S, two HP48SX (instead of one), one HP48GX and HP49G. I did not put the black HP50G, my son has it at school

Sorry to express to bad, I'm Spanish and sometimes it takes me a little write correctly in English.

[Joe Horn]

(02-12-2014 10:54 AM)HP67 Wrote:  I have my new, still in the plastic 50g in front of me. Your picture shows the green markings much brighter than they actually appear. Yes, they're green, but they're not the same green as the green shift key, which appears to be very dark green.

The blue on the shift key seems lighter than and doesn't seem to match the blue markings on the top/left of each key.

The orange shift key doesn't match the apparently yellow markings on the top/right of each key.

So this is what I mean by disturbingly mismatched.

It could be argued it should be good enough that we get the idea that one green is related to another green and light blue ought to be good enough to tell us the darker blue corresponds to it, and the orange key ought to signal to us that the yellow keyboard markings are what it corresponds to then yes, we can figure it out. But should we have to?

Given the colors are close (somewhat) but no cigar, it is very hard on the eyes and doesn't seem like much thought was given to selecting them. The 48 models, on the other hand, have shift keys that match the keyboard markings exactly.

I see. Thanks for clarifying that. I wonder why the photo is different from the actual machine. Have there been color variations? Probably simply an inaccurate photo.

Quote:Are you looking at pic or do you have one or more blue 50g models in your vast collection? I think the pic looks better than the actual calculator, which is why I bought one in the first place!

You're right: I was basing my statements solely on that photo. I've never owned a blue 50g, because I never wanted one, not because of keyboard legibility, but because I think it looks silly. If I had owned one, I would have seen what you see: the photo above is misleading.

[HP67]

Seems to me getting colors right in photos is always real tricky. I just got the blue one since I was wanting another 50g and the price was right. I didn't pay much attention beforehand. Lesson learned!

[Thomas Klemm]

(02-12-2014 10:54 AM)HP67 Wrote:  Now there is always the possibility that the colors used on the shift keys and on the keyboard are exactly the same pigments or are exactly the same wavelength. Still, that doesn't change the perception that the colors appear different, in context, on the actual device.

Are you thinking of the Bezold effect?


Cheers
Thomas

[HP67]

I don't know the specific details but I used to be interested in photography and a guy I know who was a chemist and did his own printing showed me how hard it is to get all the colors right. I don't know if this applies to digital photography but I understand generally it's a delicate balance and it's often possible to get one part of the spectrum correct at the expense of others and when colors come out of the abstract and get put down on paper or plastic things often change. Too complicated for me so I took up other hobbies

[dan_h]

Maybe someone can devise a hot key program that will show the keys -- and "sub key" inscriptions on the screen, so that a user could see which key to use and immediately return to the whatever task they were doing. I have the 50G, have had the Prime since Feb. 1, and so far really like it, but sometimes I have to tilt the calculator to read the the alternate choices on a key.

[CR Haeger]

(02-13-2014 03:36 PM)dan_h Wrote:  Maybe someone can devise a hot key program that will show the keys -- and "sub key" inscriptions on the screen, so that a user could see which key to use and immediately return to the whatever task they were doing. I have the 50G, have had the Prime since Feb. 1, and so far really like it, but sometimes I have to tilt the calculator to read the the alternate choices on a key.

I have been using the Prime going on four months now. Every month I spend less and less time hunting for keys and more time just memorizing where they are. In the meantime, the Del and Esc keys have been getting a workout.

I have also been trying to memorize the submenu numbers for often used commands, like Toolbox, CAS, 3, 1 for solve().