COGO program for HP15C

[rioricolandsurvey]

Hi,
I am a land surveyor and lost my instructions on how to use my COGO program for my 15C
Is there a way I can get the steps?

Jim

[Dieter]

(04-22-2016 05:45 PM)rioricolandsurvey Wrote:  I am a land surveyor and lost my instructions on how to use my COGO program for my 15C
Is there a way I can get the steps?

Maybe someone can help...
...once you tell us what program you refer to. ;-)

Dieter

[SlideRule]

(04-22-2016 05:45 PM)rioricolandsurvey Wrote:  I am a land surveyor and lost my instructions on how to use my COGO program for my 15C Is there a way I can get the steps?

Jim

Try thread #908 for complete discussion and this url CoGo for 15c for the missing instructions.

BEST!
SlideRule

[RMollov]

(04-22-2016 05:45 PM)rioricolandsurvey Wrote:  Hi,
I am a land surveyor and lost my instructions on how to use my COGO program for my 15C
Is there a way I can get the steps?

Jim

HP15C isn't the best choice for a land surveyor these days. HP35s or WP34 would do better. HP48 is the best IMO.

[Geoff Quickfall]

Yes, but they are not a 15c :-)

[d b]

(04-23-2016 12:02 AM)RMollov Wrote:  HP15C isn't the best choice for a land surveyor these days. HP35s or WP34 would do better. HP48 is the best IMO.

Yes, and since he obviously isn't using it to run his gun- the 48 with the D'Zign surveying software would be great, as would Tim & John's connectible Precision Survey Solutions package on the 49/50. They're not pocket size though. D'Zign's 42 version could be ported to the 34s easily, but i think he really likes his 15c. I had a Trav/Inv/SS program in my 11c and liked it. It converted every register in the calculator but I was lucky. Geoff's law postulates that a program will always take up one more line than the calculator has.

[RMollov]

(04-23-2016 04:31 AM)Den Belillo (Martinez Ca.) Wrote:  

(04-23-2016 12:02 AM)RMollov Wrote:  HP15C isn't the best choice for a land surveyor these days. HP35s or WP34 would do better. HP48 is the best IMO.

Yes, and since he obviously isn't using it to run his gun- the 48 with the D'Zign surveying software would be great, as would Tim & John's connectible Precision Survey Solutions package on the 49/50. They're not pocket size though. D'Zign's 42 version could be ported to the 34s easily, but i think he really likes his 15c. I had a Trav/Inv/SS program in my 11c and liked it. It converted every register in the calculator but I was lucky. Geoff's law postulates that a program will always take up one more line than the calculator has.

What is to like in the 15c as far as surveying is concerned? As a hobby it might be ok, but for actively working surveyor it's a joke. And who is implying running a gun? Are there places in the world surveyors use external data collectors? Even the cheapest instruments of today have all the functionality on board.

[d b]

(04-23-2016 06:19 AM)RMollov Wrote:  

(04-23-2016 04:31 AM)Den Belillo (Martinez Ca.) Wrote:  Yes, and since he obviously isn't using it to run his gun- the 48 with the D'Zign surveying software would be great, as would Tim & John's connectible Precision Survey Solutions package on the 49/50. They're not pocket size though. D'Zign's 42 version could be ported to the 34s easily, but i think he really likes his 15c. I had a Trav/Inv/SS program in my 11c and liked it. It converted every register in the calculator but I was lucky. Geoff's law postulates that a program will always take up one more line than the calculator has.

What is to like in the 15c as far as surveying is concerned? As a hobby it might be ok, but for actively working surveyor it's a joke. And who is implying running a gun? Are there places in the world surveyors use external data collectors? Even the cheapest instruments of today have all the functionality on board.

R;
Here in Northern California almost all surveyors use an external data collector. A few use the Wild/Leica onboard system, probably because after they pay for a Leica, they can't afford accessories. TDS was popular and is still used. The D'Zign 48 was used by some one-horse guys, and his tunnel tights program was the go-to for that work. Xtratra on the 200LX was pretty complete but it blew up occasionally. A company doing a cut and cover and another one that does precision work on high rise use it. Mostly now you see the Topcon, Trimble, that awful Carlson........or sometimes a guy with a field book, a #6 pencil, and a 15c to figure his cuts. It's a science AND an art. -db

[Geoff Quickfall]

Firstly, a little humour here,

Secondly, and I quote DB:

"sometimes a guy with a field book, a #6 pencil, and a 15c to figure his cuts. It's a science AND an art."

As far as precision and program ability the 15c is still magic. Albeit not in the league of 41C and greater. But that is mostly due to the greater memory capability of the others and convenience of alpha numeric prompting and storage (onboard, external).

I can honestly see a 15c, plasticized field book and pencil working very nicely. But then, I am from the era of the slide rule, plasticized field book, pencil and simple transact science, so anything greater then the slide rule is magic.

I guess, if he is comfortable with the 15c, then fine, and yes the 41c and greater are more convenient but I would not say the 15 is a joke except in humorous vane.

---------

There are many postings about favourite calculators, just search the archives. It seems the machine you first picked up became your favourite. If it was RPN, then RPN; RPL, then RPL; PRIME, then prime.

If your first programming experience was RPN, then for many it was too big a jump to go to RPL so the 41cx is it. It can be argued that the 41C series too is a joke when compared to the dedicated RAMs in a 48SX/48GX.

IMHO. :-)

[ls41028]

(04-22-2016 05:45 PM)rioricolandsurvey Wrote:  Hi,
I am a land surveyor and lost my instructions on how to use my COGO program for my 15C
Is there a way I can get the steps?

Jim

Jim:

Did you find what you were looking for?

I looked in the manuals I have on cd & don't see anything on a 15c cogo program, so I'm guessing you have one that was obtained from an outside source. If you can remember where you got it, you may be able to get instructions there.

If not, you could try reverse engineering the program. If it's a simple program just used to compute coordinates from bearing & distance, it would not be difficult to do. If it's more complex, with field angles, sideshots, inverses, etc, it might be a chore to go through since it will be a rather long program.

The other option if you can't find out how to use what you have would be to write something that does what you really need.

[ls41028]

(04-23-2016 06:19 AM)RMollov Wrote:  

(04-23-2016 04:31 AM)Den Belillo (Martinez Ca.) Wrote:  Yes, and since he obviously isn't using it to run his gun- the 48 with the D'Zign surveying software would be great, as would Tim & John's connectible Precision Survey Solutions package on the 49/50. They're not pocket size though. D'Zign's 42 version could be ported to the 34s easily, but i think he really likes his 15c. I had a Trav/Inv/SS program in my 11c and liked it. It converted every register in the calculator but I was lucky. Geoff's law postulates that a program will always take up one more line than the calculator has.

What is to like in the 15c as far as surveying is concerned? As a hobby it might be ok, but for actively working surveyor it's a joke. And who is implying running a gun? Are there places in the world surveyors use external data collectors? Even the cheapest instruments of today have all the functionality on board.

I had no idea anyone actually used the onboard functions in modern instruments. What do you do if you have a different crew go to a job? Have them switch instruments? Load it in multiple instruments? Point number overruns are guaranteed if the job is in multiple collectors/instruments, and crews (at least mine) really hate switching instruments, even if they're identical.

What is to like in the 15c for a surveyor? It's just as capable as everything else out there for the things that surveyors actually use a calculator for. As far as cogo, are you going to comp up an entire job in your 15c for stakeout, or reduce your topo to coordinates for mapping? Obviously not. What it is good for is a map check, or quick calcs for a simple lot survey, or any number of other simple uses. I don't comp up big jobs in my calculator, and I don't check my field crews' work in a data collector or a pc cogo package, I use one of my calculators. For that, a 15c is quite capable.

Bottom line: everyone does things a little different, and that's a good thing. The best way to learn how you like to do things is to try different ways of getting to the same result.

[SlideRule]

(04-23-2016 06:25 PM)ls41028 Wrote:  Jim: Did you find what you were looking for? I looked in the manuals I have on cd & don't see anything on a 15c cogo program ...

Try googling 'Melbard &/or Hazelton' for 33s / 35s with COGO; not exactly 15c listing(s) but beter'n nuttin.
ps: "Wollinda' also works.

BEST!
SlideRule

[RMollov]

(04-23-2016 04:12 PM)Geoff Quickfall Wrote:  As far as precision and program ability the 15c is still magic. Albeit not in the league of 41C and greater. But that is mostly due to the greater memory capability of the others and convenience of alpha numeric prompting and storage (onboard, external).

That convenience plus reducing to absolute minimum reading-writing (statistically 2% human errors - go figure what that means in surveying) makes for 99% of the usability IMO. Precision has little to do here. Surveying is not as simple as one may think so all above mentioned shortcomings of hp15 make it not suitable for it. No surveyor that I know uses it, an I've been in business for 35+ years.

Quote:I can honestly see a 15c, plasticized field book and pencil working very nicely. But then, I am from the era of the slide rule, plasticized field book, pencil and simple transact science, so anything greater then the slide rule is magic

I call this a hobby based on nostalgia. I can't imagine how a working surveyor can be competitive today armed like this.

Best regards,

[RMollov]

(04-23-2016 07:00 AM)Den Belillo (Martinez Ca.) Wrote:  Here in Northern California almost all surveyors use an external data collector. A few use the Wild/Leica onboard system, probably because after they pay for a Leica, they can't afford accessories. TDS was popular and is still used. The D'Zign 48 was used by some one-horse guys, and his tunnel tights program was the go-to for that work. Xtratra on the 200LX was pretty complete but it blew up occasionally. A company doing a cut and cover and another one that does precision work on high rise use it. Mostly now you see the Topcon, Trimble, that awful Carlson........or sometimes a guy with a field book, a #6 pencil, and a 15c to figure his cuts. It's a science AND an art. -db

I'm extremely surprised to hear that. Here, in Sydney, Australia I saw external data collector / gun controller some 18 years years ago for the last time. All you see is Leica, Trimble, very rarely Topcon. Calculators in use are mainly hp48 and hp42, lately hp50 or hp35s. Leica is not regarded unaffordable at all. Trimble is apparently instrument of choice for one-man-party. Field books both flavours are long forgotten in the area I live and operate. Can be different elsewhere though.

Cheers,

[d b]

(04-23-2016 11:14 PM)SlideRule Wrote:  Try googling 'Melbard &/or Hazelton' for 33s / 35s with COGO; not exactly 15c listing(s) but beter'n nuttin.
ps: "Wollinda' also works.
BEST!
SlideRule

S.R.;
I'd never heard of either of them. Melbard's looks pretty comprehensive. Dr. Hazelton's program wouldn't come up on my computer, but that might be due to my two-day-old version of Linux. What did come up (the host is the Sacramento chapter of the CLSA) brought back memories. I was going to Sac. City College's survey program at night in the early '80's and working for whoever had work any day they had it. Two of my employers took their turn in the barrel as president of the chapter so i went to meetings and set up for the yearly picnics, the Surveyor's Olympics three times. That mainly consisted of erecting the "survey party" signs and icing the beer. I won the Chain Throw once because everyone else had hit too much of those aforementioned suds, and my bosses wife (an RN) won the pacing contest. I asked "Cathy, how did you beat all us surveyors pacing distance?" She said "you know those one foot tiles at the hospital? I walk a lot of them".

Couldn't find Wollinda, but again, that may be me. Thanks for the trip down memory lane -db

[d b]

(04-24-2016 03:47 AM)RMollov Wrote:  

(04-23-2016 07:00 AM)Den Belillo (Martinez Ca.) Wrote:  Here in Northern California almost all surveyors use an external data collector. A few use the Wild/Leica onboard system, probably because after they pay for a Leica, they can't afford accessories. TDS was popular and is still used. The D'Zign 48 was used by some one-horse guys, and his tunnel tights program was the go-to for that work. Xtratra on the 200LX was pretty complete but it blew up occasionally. A company doing a cut and cover and another one that does precision work on high rise use it. Mostly now you see the Topcon, Trimble, that awful Carlson........or sometimes a guy with a field book, a #6 pencil, and a 15c to figure his cuts. It's a science AND an art. -db

I'm extremely surprised to hear that. Here, in Sydney, Australia I saw external data collector / gun controller some 18 years years ago for the last time. All you see is Leica, Trimble, very rarely Topcon. Calculators in use are mainly hp48 and hp42, lately hp50 or hp35s. Leica is not regarded unaffordable at all. Trimble is apparently instrument of choice for one-man-party. Field books both flavours are long forgotten in the area I live and operate. Can be different elsewhere though.

Cheers,

R; Here, if you think there is any chance of getting sued, you book everything. It's not that a field book is less prone to error. It's certainly not faster or less prone to transposing digits. It's that graphite or ink on paper is more easily explained than data files to a judge. The U.S., and California in particular, is a very litigious society. Land is worth enough to attract the sharks. The choice of using third party data collectors may be local. -db

[RMollov]

(04-24-2016 04:38 AM)Den Belillo (Martinez Ca.) Wrote:  

(04-24-2016 03:47 AM)RMollov Wrote:  I'm extremely surprised to hear that. Here, in Sydney, Australia I saw external data collector / gun controller some 18 years years ago for the last time. All you see is Leica, Trimble, very rarely Topcon. Calculators in use are mainly hp48 and hp42, lately hp50 or hp35s. Leica is not regarded unaffordable at all. Trimble is apparently instrument of choice for one-man-party. Field books both flavours are long forgotten in the area I live and operate. Can be different elsewhere though.

Cheers,

R; Here, if you think there is any chance of getting sued, you book everything. It's not that a field book is less prone to error. It's certainly not faster or less prone to transposing digits. It's that graphite or ink on paper is more easily explained than data files to a judge. The U.S., and California in particular, is a very litigious society. Land is worth enough to attract the sharks. The choice of using third party data collectors may be local. -db

Oh, I completely forgot about that. It used to be like this here, but to my observations it faded away with the release of Leica 1100 series instruments. Apparently electronic booking is just as good.
Cheers,

[Geoff Quickfall]

Apparently it works for rioricolandsurvey, but we don't know what he needs it for.

Nostalgia, yes, but as I stated, this used to be done by slide rules. Are there more suitable tools, of course.

I use an enhanced 29c on a Boeing 777 flight deck, nostalgia yes; functional absolutely.


Best!

[RMollov]

(04-24-2016 06:16 AM)Geoff Quickfall Wrote:  Apparently I works for rioricolandsurvey, but we don't know what he needs it for.

??? Is that a joke? I don't get it.

[RMollov]

(04-23-2016 06:41 PM)ls41028 Wrote:  I had no idea anyone actually used the onboard functions in modern instruments. What do you do if you have a different crew go to a job? Have them switch instruments? Load it in multiple instruments? Point number overruns are guaranteed if the job is in multiple collectors/instruments, and crews (at least mine) really hate switching instruments, even if they're identical.

When was the last time you actually used modern instrument?
So every crew is to be allowed to do whatever they like the way they like?
Sorry, mate, but this is an absolute recipe for disaster.
Our company runs 12+ field parties every day and every single one should be able to fill in for any of the others with any instrument. All instruments are setup identically and personalizing them by the party members is not permitted.

Quote:What is to like in the 15c for a surveyor? It's just as capable as everything else out there for the things that surveyors actually use a calculator for. As far as cogo, are you going to comp up an entire job in your 15c for stakeout, or reduce your topo to coordinates for mapping? Obviously not. What it is good for is a map check, or quick calcs for a simple lot survey, or any number of other simple uses. I don't comp up big jobs in my calculator, and I don't check my field crews' work in a data collector or a pc cogo package, I use one of my calculators. For that, a 15c is quite capable.

Some basic skills with any CAD package with field data being sent (even in real time) to it in digital format does the above times quicker, provides immediately real picture of what's going on rather than comparing numbers by eye on piece of paper. Let alone more complex geometry including curves, irregular lines, areas for such etc.

Quote:Bottom line: everyone does things a little different, and that's a good thing. The best way to learn how you like to do things is to try different ways of getting to the same result.

My bottom line: no mater how everyone feels like about doing things, when they are to work in team environment, they should stick to certain rules, otherwise it's called anarchy. Imagine a army formation where every soldier is allowed to do as they will...

Regards,