Logic, logic, logic!!!

[Matt Agajanian]

Hello all.

What makes TI's, HP's and Casio's direct formula/textbook entry methods different from each other?

[Tugdual]

Why do we have different languages, different currencies, different measurement systems, different cultures etc...
I guess because it is human kind creativity?

[Matt Agajanian]

Yes, good point. Perhaps I should have been more specific in my inquiry.

Let me try it this way.

What are the differentiating operational and data entry procedures and characteristics which make each method different?

[Tugdual]

The only experience I can share on this topic is quite basic (possibly still off topic) and related to RPN versus whatever else, this is I think the only big differenciator.
With most non RPN calculator, one would totally delegate the calculation to the calculator. So you litteraly type the whole calculation and press enter... sorry 'equal'.
RPN is more like a support, the user being involved in the calculation. You have to think about how you would do the calculation and only delegate the "mechanical" detail of actually summing, divinding etc... to the machine. At first this is disturbing but when you get used to it you cannot work without it any longer.
With CAS I have to admit that RPN is not very much relevant any longer so I kind of understand why the Prime is scizophrenic with its dual mode CAS vs Home since the latest only allows RPN.
Anyway, not sure this is what you expect for an answer...

[Matt Agajanian]

Hi there. No problemmo! Although on a tangent, your insight does give me a more devout appreciation of the nuances and elegance of both RPN and RPL.

[Tugdual]

I'm totally biased :-)

[walter b]

(02-22-2014 09:39 PM)Tugdual Wrote:  Why do we have different languages, different currencies, different measurement systems, different cultures etc...
I guess because it is human kind creativity?

Hmmh, the third one is because of mulishness of the wrong people instead of assertiveness of the right people only IMHO. Didn't they claim going metric in the Seventies? Sounds like creationism vs. evolution at the same place. So much about logic (maybe I'm biased).

d:-(

[Mark Hardman]

(02-22-2014 10:30 PM)walter b Wrote:  Sounds like creationism vs. evolution at the same place. So much about logic (maybe I'm biased).

And let us not forget the "logic" of Welteislehre in the 1930s.

Let's get back to calculators Walter.

Mark Hardman

[Stefan]

(02-22-2014 09:29 PM)Matt Agajanian Wrote:  Hello all.

What makes TI's, HP's and Casio's direct formula/textbook entry methods different from each other?

My only TI is the NSpire CAS so this is not really comparable to the cheap calculators, but for the cheap scientific calculators my answer is this:

Casio fx-991ES Plus and fx-991DE plus:
sin, cos, tan and so on add a "(" to the function. this is often nice. but it also means you always have to type a closing ")"
The textbook entry gets very slow for large(and not so large) expressions. (See the other thread "calculator keys are made of plastic for more discussion). This is super annoying (and dangerous in exams).
Constants are written with the symbols (so instead of printing the value of epsilon_0 an the greek letter is printed. But therefore you have to look up the ID of the constant on the protective sleeve of the calc.
Textbook entry does also work in Complex mode.
The Casios loose all the history when you switch them off. Only variables (A, B, C... X, Y) are retained.
To switch display beteen proper fraction, non proper fraction and decimal fraction two different key presses are used.

Sharp EL-W506:
sin, cos, and so on don't include a "(". This is also kind of nice in cases where you dont need "()".
constants are printed as their value. But therefore the "constant" menu shows the name of the constant together with its unit. so you dont need to look it up anywhere.
The Textbook mode only works in the "normal" mode. does not work in "complex" mode.
The Sharp remembers everything even after switching it off.
To switch between fraction modes only one and the same key is used (all modes are cycled through after another)

Does that answer some of the questions?

My favourite is the Sharp EL-W506 (*not* EL-506W). But the HP300s+ seems also promising (see the other thread mentioned at the beginning)

[walter b]

(02-22-2014 11:14 PM)Mark Hardman Wrote:  

(02-22-2014 10:30 PM)walter b Wrote:  

(02-22-2014 09:39 PM)Tugdual Wrote:  Why do we have different languages, different currencies, different measurement systems, different cultures etc...
I guess because it is human kind creativity?

Hmmh, the third one is because of mulishness of the wrong people instead of assertiveness of the right people only IMHO. Didn't they claim going metric in the Seventies? Sounds like creationism vs. evolution at the same place. So much about logic (maybe I'm biased).

And let us not forget the "logic" of Welteislehre in the 1930s.

Never heard of that rubbish before Mark. Nice try, but the complete thread tells the story.

d:-/

[Thomas Radtke]

(02-22-2014 11:14 PM)Mark Hardman Wrote:  And let us not forget the "logic" of Welteislehre in the 1930s.

Please *do* let us forget about esoterism in general in a forum like this. Leads to nowhere except hassle.

[HP67]

(02-23-2014 01:40 AM)Stefan Wrote:  My favourite is the Sharp EL-W506 (*not* EL-506W).

Based on your comments in a few posts about this model I have been looking at it more closely. But the Casio 991ES Plus is available for about 21 USD and the cheapest I can find this one is around 70 USD! So the Sharp may be better but it should be for more than 3X the price!

[Stefan]

70$ is way to much. I paid like 19€ or so (new, the shop was Dynatech.de).

Maybe its because it is replaced by a newer version (I think its EL-W506 X-"some two character code for the color) which also has the piano style look like the HP300s+. I cannot say anything about the build quality, but the functions are exactly the same. You have to be careful though, Sharp has a large variety of calculator models with very similar names, but which can differ in functions a lot.

Fun fact: I even received a second EL-W506 for free a couple of years ago from Sharp because there was an "LSI-Error" on some devices in a certain serial number range. Mine had one of those serial numbers, so I got a new one. The one which is said to have the LSI Error worked perfectly, so I kept it ^^.

[HP67]

(02-23-2014 11:28 AM)Stefan Wrote:  70$ is way to much. I paid like 19€ or so (new, the shop was Dynatech.de).

That's a good price. Dynatech is now showing 17.95€. But I don't think they ship outside Germany.
I think this is the site somebody said used to do 48G RAM upgrades? I wonder if they still do.

There's an Ebay seller in the UK asking 60 USD for the Sharp + 10 USD shipping worldwide. If I decide to get one I'll ask my friends in China or Taiwan to buy one for me locally. The prices I'm seeing are just too high.