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Michael Fehlhammer · 07-17-2016, 01:22 PM

Regularly Monte is adding new modules to the 41CL flash database; the latest one is named "HNDY".
Unfortunately many of these new or updated modules come without any kind of documentation ( no, there isn't any on TOS either for MANY modules!),
an exception being Angel's modules which are documented perfectly, of course.

I understand that very few people are willing to create large detailed manuals, but a quick reference guide should accompany any module that is passed to Monte for insertion in the CL flash database.
At least a short description of the ( new or updated ) functions is inevitable IMHO. I would not even think about downloading and programming a module image into flash if I haven't got the faintest idea what it is all about.
Instead of inserting more strange undocumented images into CL flash memory, I recommend the creation of a 41CL documentation database where there is an entry for each single image - even if it is only a very brief description of its functions ( function name - input parameters - meaning of output, for example ).
The unexplored rest can be marked as such and put into a separate database, until a description is available.

I am curious about your thoughts about that.

Ángel Martin · (This post was last modified: 07-18-2016 06:48 AM by Ángel Martin.)

Michael, I agree; even a great software becomes pretty much unusable without t least a rudimentary manual... and I too need to write some QRG's for several modules I produced that are still lacking one. It's a slow process, but it'll eventually get done...

BTW the manual for the Handy Compact is posted at TOS - just enter "HANDY" in the search field. Other still pending are: "ETSII Engineering Collection" (4 modules), the "Sums & Series" Module, the "XROM"_ROM, etc...

Geir, maybe another Wiki is not the answer here - after all the current sites already host lots of manuals and anybody can freely contribute already.

PS. I find V41 an excellent "testing ground" for those undocumented modules: you can experiment without any concerns of mishaps to our precious CL's...

Monte Dalrymple · 07-18-2016, 08:14 PM

(07-18-2016 08:08 PM)Geir Isene Wrote:
(07-18-2016 05:11 AM)Ángel Martin Wrote: Geir, maybe another Wiki is not the answer here - after all the current sites already host lots of manuals and anybody can freely contribute already.

The problem with using a forum like this for permanent information like a module database is the lack of structure. It is cumbersome to wade through post searches to find what is needed. TOS depends on one person to upload and then becomes laggy. The interface is aslo outdated. Direct involvement by the whole community into a structured knowledge base is what is needed IMO. Thus a wiki would be the right answer.

Perhaps something like this?

http://www.wiki4hp.com/doku.php?id=41cl:..._cpu_board

My only concern is what happens if something happens to the site administrator.

Monte Dalrymple · 07-22-2016, 09:19 PM

(07-18-2016 09:13 PM)Geir Isene Wrote:
(07-18-2016 08:14 PM)Monte Dalrymple Wrote: Perhaps something like this?
http://www.wiki4hp.com/doku.php?id=41cl:..._cpu_board

Yes :-)

(07-18-2016 08:14 PM)Monte Dalrymple Wrote: My only concern is what happens if something happens to the site administrator.

Just give Admin rights to five other people.

And start moving all module images and Manuals/QRGs into one table on one page.

okay, here is a start:

http://www.wiki4hp.com/doku.php?id=41cl:...s_and_bugs

**rprosperi** · 07-22-2016, 10:50 PM

(07-22-2016 09:19 PM)Monte Dalrymple Wrote: okay, here is a start:

http://www.wiki4hp.com/doku.php?id=41cl:...s_and_bugs

Wow, and quite a start that is, thanks Monte! VERY useful. VERY helpful.

The list shows "Library-4 AMC-OSX ROM" as Not Found. I have a copy Rev 4M, from July 2014 I can send you, though I would have guessed that I got it from the 41CL site.

Monte Dalrymple · 07-22-2016, 11:14 PM

(07-22-2016 10:50 PM)rprosperi Wrote: The list shows "Library-4 AMC-OSX ROM" as Not Found. I have a copy Rev 4M, from July 2014 I can send you, though I would have guessed that I got it from the 41CL site.

My bad. Fixed now.

**Gene** · 07-23-2016, 12:41 AM

Documentation (such as it is) for the PPCU rom (PPC Applications from the PPC ROM manual).

PPCU manual

These are simply captures of the PPC ROM manual of the pages showing these programs and the instructions.

However, I could not find in the PPC ROM manual the listings and instructions in the manual for the routines below. If anyone can help me with the PPC ROM Manual page number the routines are listed on, I can update.

ACV
BLK
CAL
CRV

I also did not include the PPC KA or the PPC Hanoi or the DIAL programs from the end. They can be added but...

Sylvain Cote · 07-23-2016, 01:00 AM

(07-23-2016 12:41 AM)Gene Wrote: However, I could not find in the PPC ROM manual the listings and instructions in the manual for the routines below. If anyone can help me with the PPC ROM Manual page number the routines are listed on, I can update.
ACV
BLK
CAL
CRV
I also did not include the PPC KA or the PPC Hanoi or the DIAL programs from the end. They can be added but...

Here they are ...

Code:

Name        XROM XREF Type    Function   Linked   Group  Reference #1       Reference #2    Reference #3    Author(s)      Description

-PPC APPS   17   03   FOCAL   ACV        ACV      APPS   PPC ROM MAN P212   PPC ROM HS                      Cliff Carrie   vertical character accumulation

-PPC APPS   17   05   FOCAL   BLK        MAXMIN   APPS   PPC ROM MAN P320   PPC ROM MP                      Jack Sutton    n/d

-PPC APPS   17   06   FOCAL   CAL        MAXMIN   APPS   PPC ROM MAN P320   PPC ROM MP                      Jack Sutton    n/d

-PPC APPS   17   09   FOCAL   CRV        CVPL     APPS   PPC ROM MAN P116   PPC ROM CV      PPC CA V7N5P46  Bill Barnett   curve fitting program

Sylvain

Sylvain Cote · 07-23-2016, 01:03 AM

(07-22-2016 09:19 PM)Monte Dalrymple Wrote: okay, here is a start:

http://www.wiki4hp.com/doku.php?id=41cl:...s_and_bugs

... and quite a start! Smile

Thank you very much Monte.

Sylvain

**Gene** · 07-23-2016, 01:42 AM

(07-23-2016 01:00 AM)Sylvain Cote Wrote: Here they are ...

Code:

Name XROM XREF Type Function Linked Group Reference #1 Reference #2 Reference #3 Author(s) Description -PPC APPS 17 03 FOCAL ACV ACV APPS PPC ROM MAN P212 PPC ROM HS Cliff Carrie vertical character accumulation -PPC APPS 17 05 FOCAL BLK MAXMIN APPS PPC ROM MAN P320 PPC ROM MP Jack Sutton n/d -PPC APPS 17 06 FOCAL CAL MAXMIN APPS PPC ROM MAN P320 PPC ROM MP Jack Sutton n/d -PPC APPS 17 09 FOCAL CRV CVPL APPS PPC ROM MAN P116 PPC ROM CV PPC CA V7N5P46 Bill Barnett curve fitting program
Sylvain

Gene: Updated. Turned out that three of these were already in there. I had missed the labels in the routines I had already included.

**Gene** · 07-23-2016, 01:43 AM

And, Sylvain, can you send me that document you pulled those page references from as a PDF ?

I'll merge it with my pages pulled from the PPC Rom manual and it can serve as an index.

Monte Dalrymple · 07-23-2016, 01:51 AM

(07-23-2016 01:43 AM)Gene Wrote: And, Sylvain, can you send me that document you pulled those page references from as a PDF ?

I'll merge it with my pages pulled from the PPC Rom manual and it can serve as an index.

If everyone could hold off inserting their own contributions, I'll try to add in placeholders for the columns of information that Geir requested (Flash location and .ROM file location.) Although this is starting to look more and more like the Memory Reference document...

BTW the images are already in year-by-year .zip files on the 41CL site. Since the request sounded like individual images, that means a lot of uploading on my part, because the interface to my web host doesn't support batch uploads, only one at a time.

Sylvain Cote · 07-23-2016, 02:06 AM

(07-23-2016 01:43 AM)Gene Wrote: And, Sylvain, can you send me that document you pulled those page references from as a PDF ?

I'll merge it with my pages pulled from the PPC Rom manual and it can serve as an index.

Hello Gene,

The file is available here and it was part of the "Barcode -> .raw file project ---- help requested" project.

Sylvain

**Gene** · 07-23-2016, 02:49 AM

Aha, yes.

Added the reference information to the beginning of the PDF in this thread. Updated.

**Gene** · 07-23-2016, 03:09 AM

Monte, the manual and QRG for the Mcode Debugger are found in this .zip file.

Mcode Debugger zip containing manual and QRG

Ángel Martin · 07-23-2016, 02:46 PM

(07-22-2016 09:19 PM)Monte Dalrymple Wrote: okay, here is a start:

http://www.wiki4hp.com/doku.php?id=41cl:...s_and_bugs

It wouldn't load on my home machine, any ideas?

"The connection has timed out"

Michael Fehlhammer · 07-23-2016, 09:57 PM

During the last few days I missed the proceedings in this thread, shortly after having started it, email notification didn't work obviously. Now I am amazed and happy to see which great documentation database is being developed.
Thank you Monte, thanks to all contributors!

**Gene** · 07-24-2016, 01:19 AM

I would like to encourage members here to put together some documentation for just one rom if you think you can. If 10-20 of us do that for some of the roms without documentation, think what that would do?

Angel, you'll have a few more assigned to you. :-)

Monte, should we post them here or ? How do they get uploaded to the site ?

And, finally, even a blueprint for a rom is better than nothing. There are blueprints for some of the recent game roms, for example.

Monte Dalrymple · 07-24-2016, 02:13 AM

(07-24-2016 01:19 AM)Gene Wrote: Monte, should we post them here or ? How do they get uploaded to the site ?

Once you register and get approved, anyone can update/post stuff. That's how a wiki works. I created the table on my desktop using a spreadsheet and then uploaded it. Right now I'm trying to start populating the references to the .rom file locations, which is easiest to do in the spreadsheet, which I plan to upload again in its entirety. So it's best if nobody starts modifying the table just yet. It took two days of work to get the links to the documentation filled in, so it's likely to be about the same amount of time to get the .rom links in.