Most common calculators in the forum?

[Thomas Okken]

(12-01-2017 05:29 AM)Mike (Stgt) Wrote:  Funny, this thread reminds me of some kind of "Schwanzvergleich", showing off or 'cock comparing', typical male (or human?) behaviour.

It's conversation. Sometimes you learn something, sometimes someone learns something from you, sometimes it's just a pleasant way to pass the time.

[Massimo Gnerucci]

(12-01-2017 08:24 AM)Mike (Stgt) Wrote:  [ BTW, the initial hint to Hercules came from this community, it was Massimo Gnerucci who pointet me in the right direction to this main frame emulator I enjoy so much.

Ciao.....Mike

From dinosaur to dinosaur... :)

Ciao!

[grsbanks]

(11-30-2017 08:53 PM)lemontea Wrote:  [...] SwissMicros producing great products (I don't consider them to be recreations or copies of HP products. I think they are much improved modern products that have a heritage linked back to the golden HP years [...]

They are actually linked by more than heritage.

For one thing, the whole reason SwissMicros came into being was because the founder wanted something as close to the HP-15C as possible (his had died).

For another, the "Voyager" class machines (and the credit card sized ones, which actually came *before* the full-sized ones) are in fact NUT emulators based on an ARM chip and they run the original HP ROMs under the hood, so the DM15L for example *is* an HP-15C wearing an ARM suit

[Massimo Gnerucci]

(12-01-2017 10:20 AM)Mike (Stgt) Wrote:  

(12-01-2017 08:28 AM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  From dinosaur to dinosaur... :)

Ciao!

Yep - five up! ;)

Assume you will grasp at first glance what this could be:
Yes, it looks awful, nobody needs it as Emu41 and V41 are better, but it runs on a mainframe and it's mine. Since I've got PersComm V6 I can even operate it with single mouse clicks. Awesome.
Same firmware interpreter for the Voyagers (just a different display) but in addition output of the program in storage at present (no need to quit the application) in a 'human readable form'.

Ciao.....Mike

Nice! Well, not really... sorry ;)
But I remember well when everything should fit in a 80x24 screen.
Once I finally set up a test machine I could ask if you would lend me a copy...

Dinos roar!

[EdS2]

This poll needs more Sinclairs... here's what I've got, working, not working, and not even a calculator:

Sinclair Scientific (working)
Sinclair Scientific (eviscerated)
Sinclair Cambridge Type 2 (eviscerated)
Sinclair Cambridge Type 3

Commodore PR-100 (programmable)
Commodore SR7949 (scientific, 12 digits displaying only 5+2) (eviscerated)

Texas TI-57 Programmable (eviscerated)

HP-15C Limited Edition
HP 35s
HP 30b
(All HPs still working)

Casio fx-115s (just £2)
Casio fx-82ms (also a bargain, a modern high school choice)
Casio sl-300 (solar, very basic, square root, percent, memory)
(All Casios still working)

Sharp Scientific from the 70s with some kind of solver (Edit: EL-556D, actually from the 90s it seems)
Sharp EL-506P scientific, statistical, number bases
Sharp EL-9300 graphical, programmable, statistical
(All Sharps still working)

Also the kit emulations (hardware and porting by Chris Chung, original software by Eric Smith):
NP-25
MSP-430 - TI Datamath 2500 and Sinclair Scientific
(These are working)

Mechanical:
Odhner (a bit broken)
Contex sterling adder (a bit broken)
3 slide rules, two at 6" and one at 12"
Magic Brain
Abacus (two)

A few no-name trivial calculators:
Solar-only with memory, square root, percent (working)
Solar-powered credit card sized (working! From the 1980s)
Two with square root, percent, and memory (probably the most-used calculators, both working)
A no-name calculator watch (Edit: named Advance)

A couple of personal organisers with calculator function:
Sharp EL-6320 Memo Master Alarm
Aurodis DM320 Organiseur Personnel

And, not calculators, but well-loved, handheld, battery powered, and capable of calculation (spreadsheets, OPL programming):
Psion 3a (512kB)
Psion 3a (1MB)
Psion 3mx (2MB)
Palm IIIx

And what do I use? Usually Google and sometimes awk. Rarely a calculator.

[salvomic]

(12-01-2017 11:10 AM)EdS2 Wrote:  Texas TI-57 Programmable (eviscerated)

I have also Texas TI-74 Programmable [TI-74]

Quote:Psion 3a (512kB)
Psion 3a (1MB)
Psion 3mx (2MB)
Palm IIIx

Also Psion 5 and Psion 5mx

[Maximilian Hohmann]

Hi!

(12-01-2017 05:29 AM)Mike (Stgt) Wrote:  Funny, this thread reminds me of some kind of "Schwanzvergleich", ...

I absolutely don't see it that way! My interest for calculators goes back to my school days and this forum has always been the one/only/best calculator forum on the internet, originally with a clear focus on the "museum" side, therefore very much appealing to collectors and admirers of classic calculators. So I have been around here since the day I got private internet access, sometimes in the early 1990ies (the joining dates in the user profiles only show the transition from old to new forum).

Over the years - no: decades! - the topics and discussions in this forum have been shifting around a lot. To the point where the newest (proper) HP calculator, the Prime, got it's own forum section. And therefore the user profiles and the calculators they use/own/collect are very different from 1992.

Therefore I (personally, only for me and to satisfy my curiosity) am very much interested to know what calculators are used and valued by today's active forum members. I don't care the least who has more, better, larger or more expensive ones than I have and I don't see this as any kind of comparison or competition!

Regards
Max

NB: And for the statistical purposes raised by this thread I want to add a few specimens to the category of "navigation calculators" (also collected out of my professional interest):
- Commodore N60
- Tamaya NC-2 (astro navigation calculator)
- Tamaya NC-77 (astro navigation calculator)
- Tamaya NC-88 (astro navigation calculator)
- SEC Navtronic 16
- SEC Navtronic 1701t
- SEC Navtronic 1701tr
- SEC Navtronic EXPLORER
- SEC Navtronic NAVIGATOR
- Jeppesen Sanderson Avstar
- Jeppesen Sanderson Prostar
- Jeppesen Sanderson Techstar
- ASA CX-1 Pathfinder
- Heathkit OWC 1401
- Ti59 with Aviation module
- Some circular sliderules

[pier4r]

Updated until this point (unless more posts come in the meantime)

(11-30-2017 06:33 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  That's a very misconstrued interpretation of that statement and not my opinion.

I am happy to be wrong then . No worries.

Quote:One shouldn't be surprised that the newer models aren't the most common among the members of a vintage calculator forum. For that matter, I'd like to see the results of the same poll posted in the Prime forum.

As replied to rprosperi, this makes sense. But you know, one has to start somewhere (sure, would I have used the test section, I could have inferred that mostly no one owned anything)

Quote:Statistical analysis of the calculator ownership among the members was not how this poll was advertised. My understanding of this poll was to determine which calculators were common, apparently so you could consider showing interest in them.

"Statistical analysis" is some big word for this poll . Yes I wanted to know (really out of curiosity, if I could see clear pictures I would count myself) which calculators are common among the users. Or better, which ones were hoarded.
My "statistic" is just accumulation of data or "sigma+" on some calculators.
If a poll like this is done every 2 years, then it gets more interesting.

Furthermore as I wrote I was assuming that the 50g/48g would be the most common device since it is quite powerful and sold for long time. But it is nothing bad if another model is more common, on the contrary! It is interesting data!

Thanks to the results so far yesterday I read a bit more about the 41 searching the reasons for the comment of Thomas Okken. Why was the 41 the end of the competition in the high end calculator market. I read that it was the first hp (I am not sure if it was the first in the world) that could let users write labels in programs, and indeed it was deemed as a portable computer with flexible functions.

And I am really surprised that at this point there are at least 20x 35S and 16x 42S working around, compared to other numbers. The first due to its reputation, the second due to its age (and speed since many could just drop it for the Free42).

Quote:I believe your methodology is flawed because many people own more than one of a particular model. By your reasoning, if 25 people own a Prime and one person owns 25 41's, then they're equally common, but the Prime is more popular. Shouldn't popularity be a better indication of which models in which to show interest?

"Flawed" depends on the objective that one wants to achieve. Every metric or logical system or what not is arbitrary. A metric (or a logical system, or what not) can be hold as "more valid" but many people (or few people) but it is still arbitrary. Just because it "feels right" it does not mean that is absolutely right.

So I understand your point. Indeed another possible metric (that is also included in this survey) is to count only the owners. Anyway I wanted really to visualize in my mind "ok if the people that wrote something would come together in one place with all the calculators working, we would have X calculators of this model, Y of this other model, etc..".
Besides I also kept the list of owners to fix the numbers in case of mistakes and this second list may achive the "number of owners" metric.

Quote:Why only working calculators? If someone has a calculator in the process of repair I don't see how that affects the commonality or popularity.

As written above, it depends on the objective. Aside that something can be in the "to be repaired" status for years, I imagined a meetup with all the calculators working. For example a meetup where you need to solve a problem in each calculator that you have. A broken one won't help.

Anyway I don't mind if people would list all the calculators that they have, working or not. Once the source of data is there, different metric can be applied on it.

(12-01-2017 05:08 AM)Fred Lusk Wrote:  -cut-

--Fred Lusk

That was a nice post. Calculators + history of them.

(12-01-2017 05:29 AM)Mike (Stgt) Wrote:  Funny, this thread reminds me of some kind of "Schwanzvergleich", showing off or 'cock comparing', typical male (or human?) behaviour.

For the experience that I had in real or virtual life I would say that the "penis contest" develops quite differently.
The normal procedure is: someone says "look what I did/bought" and then the others start to say "oh you have only this (or you could do only this)? Haha, look what I have/did!". So it is way more confrontational.

Instead here I am asking for voluntary listings, I do not see (yet) any animosity happening in terms of "I have more than you".

(12-01-2017 11:10 AM)EdS2 Wrote:  This poll needs more Sinclairs... here's what I've got, working, not working, and not even a calculator:
...

HP-15C Limited Edition
HP 35s
HP 30b
...

Hello fellow awk user! (awk + bc is pretty strong) I included only the HPs. In general I kept in the first post only the most well known - by me - producers because it is difficult to keep up with all the others brands (I guess I will take away Canon too). But I am happy that people are precise about their calculators so different metrics can be developed if one wants.

Also I included only your HPs because I was not sure if the others (from the producers listed in the first post) were working on not since you wrote everything you have (and I appreciate!). I assumed the HPs are working, but I may be wrong.

[franz.b]

why does hp49g not appear in the list? for example J Horn has one.
is it included in the 49+ family?

[EdS2]

Indeed the HPs are working. The one Sinclair Scientific too, which is the most interesting I think. And all the Sharps and Casios are working. And the abacus and two of the slide rules. And two of the three Psions, and most of the trivial calculators.

I have a frisson every time I see a calculator keyboard, but a slightly bigger one if it's an HP. I think it's a fetish, or an imprinting. It's harmless enough.

[pier4r]

(12-01-2017 01:31 PM)franz.b Wrote:  why does hp49g not appear in the list? for example J Horn has one.
is it included in the 49+ family?

according to hpcalc.org, the 49 series is 49g, 48gII, 49g+, 50g

I split the devices because I know that:
49g+ had a bad keyboard reputation
48gII and 49g don't have the SD card.

therefore if you look in the first post you find:
6 x 48gII/49g (DavidM, P.Berger, 2 x D. Hayden, 2x J Horn)

If one would count the 49 series together, they would be first, above the 41 series.

@edS2, updating.

[Thomas Okken]

(12-01-2017 01:22 PM)pier4r Wrote:  Thanks to the results so far yesterday I read a bit more about the 41 searching the reasons for the comment of Thomas Okken. Why was the 41 the end of the competition in the high end calculator market. I read that it was the first hp (I am not sure if it was the first in the world) that could let users write labels in programs, and indeed it was deemed as a portable computer with flexible functions.

In order to appreciate just how much better the 41 was compared to everything else at the time, compare it to the top models it took on, the HP-67 and the TI-59.

In a nutshell: the 41 combined the benefits of the HP "merged keystrokes" programming, and the TI model where function arguments were usually on a line by themselves. The HP approach was much nicer to use, but the TI model worked better once the number of labels and registers got large -- and boy did the TI-59 have lots of those!

In the HP-41C, they used a TI-like storage format under the hood, while still showing one complete instruction per line on the screen. Best of both worlds, very nice.

And they added an alphanumeric LCD display. I think that was a first, and it made programming even nicer, and it made it possible to write user-friendly programs, that could ask for input and label their output. And you could redefine every key on the keyboard. And they finally provided an amount of memory that was actually competitive with the high-end TIs, and could be expanded way more. And it had four expansion ports, each of which could be used for RAM, ROM, or external hardware. And all of these things were firsts in a handheld calculator.

It was so much better than anything else, so revolutionary, it was almost shocking. I imagine TI engineers sighing in dismay when they realized that HP was shipping a product that was better even than what they, TI, only had on the drawing board.

[pdo]

My very small collection (all working, one of each):-

hp35s
hp48gx
hg49g
hp49g+
hp50g

The hp49g+ was my first HP calculator and I continue to use it every day at work -- still going strong after what must be 13 years of daily use.

The hp35s is consigned to a draw, never to be used. I bought it as a Christmas present for myself a few years ago, only to be astounded by its limitations and the fact that it crashed on me twice during my first day of playing around with it!

My favourite, though, has to be the hp48gx. The ergonomics of its keymap and softmenu layout make it much easier to use (I think) than the 50g -- probably because it doesn't try to squeeze in a CAS.

Paul

[Massimo Gnerucci]

(12-01-2017 01:22 PM)pier4r Wrote:  Thanks to the results so far yesterday I read a bit more about the 41 searching the reasons for the comment of Thomas Okken. Why was the 41 the end of the competition in the high end calculator market. I read that it was the first hp (I am not sure if it was the first in the world) that could let users write labels in programs, and indeed it was deemed as a portable computer with flexible functions.

And I am really surprised that at this point there are at least 20x 35S and 16x 42S working around, compared to other numbers. The first due to its reputation, the second due to its age (and speed since many could just drop it for the Free42).

Here Richard J. Nelson summarizes some aspects that set the 41 apart from the crowd.

[Thomas Okken]

(12-01-2017 01:22 PM)pier4r Wrote:  And I am really surprised that at this point there are at least 20x 35S and 16x 42S working around, compared to other numbers. The first due to its reputation, the second due to its age (and speed since many could just drop it for the Free42).

I interpreted your question as asking which calculators, in working condition, people here own. I own five calculators, all in working condition, but I don't use any of them. What about this is surprising?

[Jim Horn]

Own: 12C, 38C, 30b, 39GII, 50g, WP 34S, 25C, 01, 41C
Mostly use 50g, WP, 12C, 30b, first two used heavily as an engineer.
Won't list the many I've had in the past (most given to others or lost in moves).
At my desk at work: Also have K&E DeciLon 10 and Dietzgen Midget. Still fun to use both!

[toml_12953]

(12-01-2017 05:29 AM)Mike (Stgt) Wrote:  Funny, this thread reminds me of some kind of "Schwanzvergleich", showing off or 'cock comparing', typical male (or human?) behaviour. I do not publish the inventory of the two or three relocation folding boxes full of calculators. My interests moved away from hardware to its virtual representation, most of them based on original firmware or software.

Oh yeah? Well my calculator is bigger than yours!

[pier4r]

(12-01-2017 03:49 PM)Thomas Okken Wrote:  I interpreted your question as asking which calculators, in working condition, people here own. I own five calculators, all in working condition, but I don't use any of them. What about this is surprising?

Sure, there may be the person owning calculators for the sake of collecting them. Nonetheless I assume (I may be wrong) that the majority bought this or that model to use them even if for limited time. Plus, if one does not really care, it does not bother to keep the calculator working or even removing the batteries.

Said that, what surprises me about the 35s and the 42s is the following.
The 35s has a bad reputation, so aside from those buying the calculator to have a check in their list, the ones that did not like it could resell it (especially when it is quite new) or give it away as present, so I assumed it won't appear that much. I am pretty sure that there are ones sitting in a draw, but then I guess the owner still considers them, even if just as backups.

The 42S instead is quite good (indeed it is the base of your Free42). Nonetheless is old and not that fast, plus superseeded by your program. So once again if it people won't need it anymore, would sell it (getting quite some money back). Otherwise even if a calculator is not used, there is something planned for it.

For example I do not use the ti nspire handheld or the ti89 because I did not have the time to use them properly (since they are more time consuming than the 50g or other calcs without TI software) but I still think that sooner or later I will find them a useful long term employment.

I assumed (maybe wrongly) that the majority of users here would do the same. Even just picking this or that model to solve a particular exercise every now and then. So under my assumption, seeing that much 35s or 42S (both in numbers higher than the the 34S so far) is unexpected.

besides, highlights:
58 x 41 C/CX/CV and 18 owners (Sylvain cheated!)
51 x 48G/GX/S/SX/G+ and 23 owners
42 x 50g and 30 owners
27 x Prime and 19 owners
27 x 12C/12C Platinum/12C 30th AE and 16 owners
21 x 15C / C+ / LE and 15 owners (as the model)
21 x 35S and 20 owners (!)

Even if they are not hp the following flagship devices that should be quite ubiquitous (at least the ti ones) are not that common:
ti89, ti nspire, classpad, primz (no one reported the primz so far).

[Thomas Okken]

(12-01-2017 05:58 PM)pier4r Wrote:  

(12-01-2017 03:49 PM)Thomas Okken Wrote:  I interpreted your question as asking which calculators, in working condition, people here own. I own five calculators, all in working condition, but I don't use any of them. What about this is surprising?

Sure, there may be the person owning calculators for the sake of collecting them.

That's not just one or two people; it's a sizable fraction of the forum membership, and probably everyone who responded to your poll!

(12-01-2017 05:58 PM)pier4r Wrote:  Nonetheless I assume (I may be wrong) that the majority bought this or that model to use them even if for limited time. Plus, if one does not really care, it does not bother to keep the calculator working or even removing the batteries.

Wrong. Even my tiny collection of four HPs is mostly (3 out of 4) calculators that I bought out of nostalgia, with no intention of ever using them. Only my 42S used to be my daily calculator. And what is your definition of caring? I don't care to use those calculators, but I do like them and keep them in good condition and treat them gently. Including the retired 42S.

(update)

To make a long story short: there are many different reasons for buying things one doesn't need, and for holding on to things one no longer needs. Any attempt to generalize people's motivations or predict their behavior is doomed to fail.

[larthurl]

(12-01-2017 11:10 AM)EdS2 Wrote:  This poll needs more Sinclairs... here's what I've got, working, not working, and not even a calculator:

Sinclair Scientific (working)
Sinclair Scientific (eviscerated)
Sinclair Cambridge Type 2 (eviscerated)
Sinclair Cambridge Type 3

Commodore PR-100 (programmable)
Commodore SR7949 (scientific, 12 digits displaying only 5+2) (eviscerated)

Texas TI-57 Programmable (eviscerated)

HP-15C Limited Edition
HP 35s
HP 30b

Casio fx-115s (just £2)
Casio fx-82ms (also a bargain, a modern high school choice)
Casio sl-300 (solar, very basic, square root, percent, memory)

Sharp Scientific from the 70s with some kind of solver
Sharp EL-506P scientific, statistical, number bases
Sharp EL-9300 graphical, programmable, statistical

Also the kit emulations (hardware and porting by Chris Chung, original software by Eric Smith):
NP-25
MSP-430 - TI Datamath 2500 and Sinclair Scientific

Mechanical:
Odhner (a bit broken)
Contex sterling adder (a bit broken)
3 slide rules, two at 6" and one at 12"
Magic Brain
Abacus (two)

A few no-name trivial calculators:
Solar-only with memory, square root, percent
Solar-powered credit card sized
Two with square root, percent, and memory (probably the most-used calculators)
A no-name calculator watch

A couple of personal organisers with calculator function:
Sharp EL-6320 Memo Master Alarm
Aurodis DM320 Organiseur Personnel

And, not calculators, but well-loved, handheld, battery powered, and capable of calculation (spreadsheets, OPL programming):
Psion 3a (512kB)
Psion 3a (1MB)
Psion 3mx (2MB)
Palm IIIx

And what do I use? Usually Google and sometimes awk. Rarely a calculator.

Ha! Interesting comment.
In the list of my collection, I failed to mention the two Sinclair 4 bangers that Sinclair gave me in 1975 and which I used (after modding the keyboards) in my first Master's degree comparing calculator keyboard arrangements (calculator vs. phone). Pushbutton phones were relatively new at the time (so were calculators) and I was interested in seeing if there were any significant differences. I still have the apparatus I built - let me take a pic and see if I can upload it. Warning - it's pretty crude