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[badaze]

@salvomic.

That’s the same with French in Switzerland or Belgium or even between french regions. There are a few differences. For instance near Lyon we say ‘vogue’ for funfair. But the word with this meaning is unknown in other regions.

But the Italian situation is quite different. Each region has its own dialect that may be very difficult to understand if you are not a local. For instance, I lived one year between Milano and Bergamo. When I listened to old people speaking at the bar I was not able to understand what they said. Same thing happened when I listened to people speaking Sicilian here in France. Very hard to understand.

[salvomic]

(02-02-2018 09:35 PM)badaze Wrote:  ...
Same thing happened when I listened to people speaking Sicilian here in France. Very hard to understand.

yes, tough Sicilian and French derive both from Latin, like Italian, Spanish or Portuguese...
Besides, Sicilian (my other native language) has a lot of words derived from French and Provenzale, like from Spanish, like "bruccetta" (fourchette), toupé, sciantosa (chanteuse), buffetta (not as bouffette but as table pour manger), mamà (maman), and many other...

Salvo

[vk6ti]

(02-02-2018 09:55 PM)salvomic Wrote:  [quote='badaze' pid='90329' dateline='1517607319']
...
Same thing happened when I listened to people speaking Sicilian here in France. Very hard to understand.

I went on a porcini hunting and eating frenzy in Sicily last year. I had real difficulty in understanding this dialect. When in full flight conversation I don,t think a modern Italian native could understand it. However it interests me that all on TV and radio is in "Italian", but they can only speak dialect
Even when they made an effort to speak slowly for my benefit, I really had to concentrate and journalise between words.
Maybe it was the area I was in (Sanagra) that was more isolated and older generation. I imagine it would be different in the towns

Ray

[mfleming]

(02-02-2018 08:41 PM)badaze Wrote:  @salvomic

Quebecois is the French spoken in Canada’s Quebec province by nearly 8 million people. There are other forms of French in Canada in New Brunswick. Because of the British victory in 1763, for nearly 2 centuries Quebecois evolved differently and independantly from the France French. As a result the spoken language is quite different from standard French. Different words, common words with different meanings, different anglicism. On some aspects, it looks like old French.
But written Quebecois is French.

If you ever have the chance, you should converse with a Cajun in Louisiana. Cajuns (Acadians) were from New France relocated to Louisiana, a French colony. The State is divided into French parishes, not English counties and until recently had a legal system based on the Napoleonic Code. Not from there myself, but I spent some time there. BTW, only Yankees say N'awlins. More like Nah-AwwwLenz. Had a French manager who immediately corrected my pronunciation

(02-02-2018 08:58 PM)salvomic Wrote:  Mark Twain said that an American and an Englishman speak the same language but they don't understand reciprocally. I would hope a Canadian and a Frenchman would like at least try to understand reciprocally...

"The United States and Great Britain are two countries separated by a common language." -- attributed to George Bernard Shaw

"Americans and British are one people separated only by a common language." -- attributed to Winston Churchill

Neither of these quotes can be verified, but they are often repeated as such because they are so truthful

I think we're in spat mode again. Perhaps they'll stop by and burn down our capital again? Couldn't hurt...
~Mark

[salvomic]

(02-03-2018 12:53 AM)vk6ti Wrote:  I went on a porcini hunting and eating frenzy in Sicily last year. I had real difficulty in understanding this dialect. When in full flight conversation I don,t think a modern Italian native could understand it.

hi Ray,
Actually Sicilian is southern (meridional) dialect, so it is similar to dialects spoken in Calabria, Puglia, Campania and many of Italian people can understand it. It remained more similar to the latin than the modern Italian, besides, as I wrote, in it Latin is mixed to words in (ancient) Greek Arabic, French, Spanish, Catalan, due to the various dominations in the island: Greek and Bizantine, Arabs, Normand, Spaniards and Catalans... but nowadays is more and more "italianized".

(02-03-2018 12:53 AM)vk6ti Wrote:  However it interests me that all on TV and radio is in "Italian", but they can only speak dialect

I live in South Est (Ragusa and Siracusa) and work also in Catania and Palermo. Where I live and work we speak Italian all day, Sicilian only in family and with old friends, or we mix the two languages, but Italian is prevalent.

(02-03-2018 01:56 AM)mfleming Wrote:  If you ever have the chance, you should converse with a Cajun in Louisiana. Cajuns (Acadians) were from New France relocated to Louisiana, a French colony. The State is divided into French parishes, not English counties and until recently had a legal system based on the Napoleonic Code. Not from there myself, but I spent some time there. BTW, only Yankees say N'awlins. More like Nah-AwwwLenz. Had a French manager who immediately corrected my pronunciation

hi Mark,
thanks for that example. There are always a lot or things to know about the language in the world...

(02-03-2018 01:56 AM)mfleming Wrote:  "The United States and Great Britain are two countries separated by a common language." -- attributed to George Bernard Shaw

yes!
but reading A tramp abroad (M. Twain): «There was as Englishman in our compartment, and he complimented me on --on what? But you would never guess. He complimented me on my English. He said Americans in general did not speak the English language as correctly as I did. I said I was obliged to him for his compliment, since I knew he meant it for one, but that I was not fairly entitled to it, for I did not speak English at all--I only spoke American.»

(02-03-2018 01:56 AM)mfleming Wrote:  "Americans and British are one people separated only by a common language." -- attributed to Winston Churchill

Neither of these quotes can be verified, but they are often repeated as such because they are so truthful

Indeed, those quotes are common, but never verified. But there is a part of truth in those. The American English, after the separation from England, followed its way, with different develop of form and pronunciation...

(02-03-2018 01:56 AM)mfleming Wrote:  I think we're in spat mode again. Perhaps they'll stop by and burn down our capital again? Couldn't hurt...
~Mark

Maybe

Salvo

[Thomas Okken]

Interesting article about the "divided by a common language" quote: https://quoteinvestigator.com/2016/04/03/common/

It includes this quote, by George Bernard Shaw, which shows how the first quote can even make sense literally:

Quote:The Irish dislike the English so much because Irishmen have learned to speak the English language; whereas America and France have no common language in which to quarrel.

Needless to say: also unverified.

[salvomic]

(02-03-2018 05:14 PM)Thomas Okken Wrote:  

Quote:The Irish dislike the English so much because Irishmen have learned to speak the English language; whereas America and France have no common language in which to quarrel.

Needless to say: also unverified.

:-D
Interesting quote, however...

[toml_12953]

(02-02-2018 08:41 PM)badaze Wrote:  @salvomic

Quebecois is the French spoken in Canada’s Quebec province by nearly 8 million people. There are other forms of French in Canada in New Brunswick. Because of the British victory in 1763, for nearly 2 centuries Quebecois evolved differently and independantly from the France French. As a result the spoken language is quite different from standard French. Different words, common words with different meanings, different anglicism. On some aspects, it looks like old French.
But written Quebecois is French.

The accent is also very different. As (we in France) are not used to ear it it is difficult to understand. Interviewed people are often subtitlted ! But strangely, on the radio or television it is very intellegible. Before I went to Quebec for vacation ten years ago, in my whole lifetime I met only 3 Quebecois (2 of them in Rome !). This to say we don’t have a close relationship. By the way, they don’t like French people. But who do ?

Even in Europe there are differences in French. I was staying with a family in Belgium and after a great meal, the wife asked me (in French) if I wanted more to eat. I answered in French, "Non, merci. Je suis plein." (literally "No, thank you. I am full") Everyone laughed. They explained to me that, while they understood what I had meant, in Belgium "Je suis plein" means "I'm pregnant" It's a euphemism of which I had not been aware. I can assure you that, as a man, I am not now nor do I have any possibility of becoming pregnant.

[salvomic]

(02-04-2018 11:25 AM)toml_12953 Wrote:  Even in Europe there are differences in French. I was staying with a family in Belgium and after a great meal, the wife asked me (in French) if I wanted more to eat. I answered in French, "Non, merci. Je suis plein." (literally "No, thank you. I am full") Everyone laughed. They explained to me that, while they understood what I had meant, in Belgium "Je suis plein" means "I'm pregnant" It's a euphemism of which I had not been aware. I can assure you that, as a man, I am not now nor do I have any possibility of becoming pregnant.

:-)
I believe you, sure!

Here in Sicily there are even between locality too close: in the city where I now they say "an mòviti" to say "stay here", 20 km above it means "don't move!", the exact contrary...

Salvo

[EmmanuelC]

Place: France.
Languages spoken: French, English.

[badaze]

(02-04-2018 11:25 AM)toml_12953 Wrote:  

(02-02-2018 08:41 PM)badaze Wrote:  @salvomic

Quebecois is the French spoken in Canada’s Quebec province by nearly 8 million people. There are other forms of French in Canada in New Brunswick. Because of the British victory in 1763, for nearly 2 centuries Quebecois evolved differently and independantly from the France French. As a result the spoken language is quite different from standard French. Different words, common words with different meanings, different anglicism. On some aspects, it looks like old French.
But written Quebecois is French.

The accent is also very different. As (we in France) are not used to ear it it is difficult to understand. Interviewed people are often subtitlted ! But strangely, on the radio or television it is very intellegible. Before I went to Quebec for vacation ten years ago, in my whole lifetime I met only 3 Quebecois (2 of them in Rome !). This to say we don’t have a close relationship. By the way, they don’t like French people. But who do ?

Even in Europe there are differences in French. I was staying with a family in Belgium and after a great meal, the wife asked me (in French) if I wanted more to eat. I answered in French, "Non, merci. Je suis plein." (literally "No, thank you. I am full") Everyone laughed. They explained to me that, while they understood what I had meant, in Belgium "Je suis plein" means "I'm pregnant" It's a euphemism of which I had not been aware. I can assure you that, as a man, I am not now nor do I have any possibility of becoming pregnant.

Plein or better pleine means pregnant but for animals. In my région you can use plein as you did or to say you're drunk.

[Mark Hardman]

(02-04-2018 11:25 AM)toml_12953 Wrote:  Even in Europe there are differences in French. I was staying with a family in Belgium and after a great meal, the wife asked me (in French) if I wanted more to eat. I answered in French, "Non, merci. Je suis plein." (literally "No, thank you. I am full") Everyone laughed. They explained to me that, while they understood what I had meant, in Belgium "Je suis plein" means "I'm pregnant" It's a euphemism of which I had not been aware. I can assure you that, as a man, I am not now nor do I have any possibility of becoming pregnant.

It might be safer to sing along to Patrick Topaloff:

J'ai bien mangé, j'ai bien bu
J'ai la peau du ventre bien tendue

[Thomas Okken]

(02-04-2018 05:44 PM)Mark Hardman Wrote:  J'ai bien mangé, j'ai bien bu
J'ai la peau du ventre bien tendue

I bet that, too, means something really surprising in some dialect somewhere.

[d b]

(02-04-2018 12:58 PM)badaze Wrote:  

(02-04-2018 11:25 AM)toml_12953 Wrote:  in Belgium "Je suis plein" means "I'm pregnant"

In my région you can use plein as you did or to say you're drunk.

In my youth, many pregnancies started out drunk, and in the back seat of an old Dodge.
Try that in a Dauphine.

[badaze]

(02-04-2018 09:14 PM)Den Belillo (Martinez Ca.) Wrote:  

(02-04-2018 12:58 PM)badaze Wrote:  In my région you can use plein as you did or to say you're drunk.

In my youth, many pregnancies started out drunk, and in the back seat of an old Dodge.
Try that in a Dauphine.

Well Dauphine are pretty hard to find nowadays. I think I will have to choose a more recent car if I want to have a chance to try.

[toml_12953]

(02-04-2018 05:44 PM)Mark Hardman Wrote:  

(02-04-2018 11:25 AM)toml_12953 Wrote:  Even in Europe there are differences in French. I was staying with a family in Belgium and after a great meal, the wife asked me (in French) if I wanted more to eat. I answered in French, "Non, merci. Je suis plein." (literally "No, thank you. I am full") Everyone laughed. They explained to me that, while they understood what I had meant, in Belgium "Je suis plein" means "I'm pregnant" It's a euphemism of which I had not been aware. I can assure you that, as a man, I am not now nor do I have any possibility of becoming pregnant.

It might be safer to sing along to Patrick Topaloff:

J'ai bien mangé, j'ai bien bu
J'ai la peau du ventre bien tendue

What does a Russian know about French? And if that's not a signature, what is it?

[Mark Hardman]

(02-04-2018 10:25 PM)toml_12953 Wrote:  And if that's not a signature, what is it?

Perhaps René Magritte has something to say on the matter.

[toml_12953]

(02-04-2018 11:49 PM)Mark Hardman Wrote:  

(02-04-2018 10:25 PM)toml_12953 Wrote:  And if that's not a signature, what is it?

Perhaps René Magritte has something to say on the matter.

Ah. It's a pipe. That explains it.