hp 50G vs hp 35s (keyboard and overall build-quality)

[zx_spectrum]

i have heard a lot of horror stories about how flimsy and cheap the keyboard (and overall build-quality) of hp 35s is.
most of reviewers of hp 35s related that to the fact that hp 35s is not manufactured by hp any more but rather by some chinese company (kinpo)
so i was wondering whether the 50G also suffers from the same poor keyboard quality as the 35s.!!!

i am aware of the fact the the 50G is not as robust as the 48G and i am aware of the fact the keyboard and overall feel of 50G is just OK, BUT how is it when compared to the NOTORIOUS hp 35s ?

is the 50G as bad with the same cheap feel as the the 35s ?

[John Keith]

I think that you have an unreasonably pessimistic view of the key quality of both machines. This is a common side effect of product reviews, unfortunately. People tend to talk a lot more about products that bother them than products they like. Just human nature I suppose.

The keyboard of my 35S is less stiff than the 50g and feels quite solid. I would actually prefer the 50g keyboard to be a bit less stiff but both are quite acceptable to me. Neither keyboard gives me any problems with missed or doubled keystrokes.

John

[zx_spectrum]

(04-09-2018 09:50 PM)John Keith Wrote:  I think that you have an unreasonably pessimistic view of the key quality of both machines. This is a common side effect of product reviews, unfortunately. People tend to talk a lot more about products that bother them than products they like. Just human nature I suppose.

The keyboard of my 35S is less stiff than the 50g and feels quite solid. I would actually prefer the 50g keyboard to be a bit less stiff but both are quite acceptable to me. Neither keyboard gives me any problems with missed or doubled keystrokes.

John

actually you are kind of right.. i am getting pessimistic but i have seen a lot of hp 35s cursing on forums
the thing is, right now i am hunting for a brand new 50G and these things are very expensive when they are brand new and in addition to that i am intending to by more than one unit (as these units are vanishing) so i am really concerned about the quality of what i am investing my hard-earned money in

keyboard stiffness is not a problem at all actually i like stiff keys (i am buckling-spring keyboard kind of guy) what i really care about is how long i can use my very EXPENSIVE calculator before it dies on me (either mechanically or functionally)

[Carsen]

I wouldn't worry that much about a terrible keyboard for the HP 50g. I bought my first 50g online and it's keyboard is flawless. In fact, I was so impressed with my 50g, I bought a second one two months later.

It doesn't miss keystrokes. Use the KEYTIME function.
The text on the keys has not worn away.
It doesn't randomly turn on in my backpack
I use up a pair of batteries in about 62 days of heavy use. And I use the batteries until they can't power on the unit.
I dropped my 50g on the floor from about 3.5 feet in the air twice while it was in its case. It lived without any problems or scratches. Both falls were on concrete.
Elegant RPL programming language.
A HUGE stack and soft menus.

The feet do wear off but go to Joe Horn's website. He gives guidance on how to easily bypass this problem.

[grsbanks]

(04-09-2018 09:09 PM)zx_spectrum Wrote:  most of reviewers of hp 35s related that to the fact that hp 35s is not manufactured by hp any more but rather by some chinese company (kinpo)
so i was wondering whether the 50G also suffers from the same poor keyboard quality as the 35s.!!!

The 50g is also manufactured by Kinpo…

It's purely a question of design. To my fingers, the 35S feels OK but I don't use it often enough (I actually hate the thing, but that's purely subjective) to know how reliable it is.

The 50g's keyboard has been problem-free for me, and I have used it quite a bit. The action is a bit firmer than we've been used to with the 48GX and the Pioneers (those machines spoiled us rotten). It's not a sweet as anything made by HP, but it's perfectly acceptable IMO.

[Michael de Estrada]

I own two HP 50g and one HP 35s calculators, and have had no problems whatsoever with any of their keyboards. Like grsbanks, I’ve used my HP 35s very little because I don’t like its design and prefer my HP 32sII instead. My HP 50g calcs are 6+ and 10+ years old, and nothing has worn out, including the legends on the keys. I actually do not mind the slightly higher key effort or travel on them as compared to the older HP calcs like my HP 48SX. It’s a real pity that HP has discontinued production of the HP 50g in favor of the Prime, which in no way can be considered an equivalent replacement. I feel fortunate that I picked up a third HP 50g two years ago that I’ve yet to open for under $50, before they became as rare and expensive as a Picasso.

[John Keith]

(04-10-2018 02:07 PM)Michael de Estrada Wrote:  I feel fortunate that I picked up a third HP 50g two years ago that I’ve yet to open for under $50, before they became as rare and expensive as a Picasso.

I bought one when they were going cheap and routinely kick myself for not buying three!

[Carsen]

(04-10-2018 03:29 PM)John Keith Wrote:  I bought one when they were going cheap and routinely kick myself for not buying three!

I think three is the perfect number. I bought two 50g's when they were cheap and I wish I bought a third one.

[Ask Mait]

(04-09-2018 09:09 PM)zx_spectrum Wrote:  i have heard a lot of horror stories about how flimsy and cheap the keyboard (and overall build-quality) of hp 35s is.
most of reviewers of hp 35s related that to the fact that hp 35s is not manufactured by hp any more but rather by some chinese company (kinpo)
so i was wondering whether the 50G also suffers from the same poor keyboard quality as the 35s.!!!

i am aware of the fact the the 50G is not as robust as the 48G and i am aware of the fact the keyboard and overall feel of 50G is just OK, BUT how is it when compared to the NOTORIOUS hp 35s ?

is the 50G as bad with the same cheap feel as the the 35s ?

I think you are worrying too much about the keyboard and general built quality, rather you can focus on what your needs are/ what it would be used for. From your post, doesn't look like you have experience with any of the 50g, 35s, 48g and probably you are attracted to these stuff only by looking at the cult following numbers..
Man, my advise would be to do some logical thinking, you are an educated person (like everybody else on this website) so use your brain for identifying the purpose of purchasing a new calculator, don't let your heart influence a scientific decision and leave it for pumping blood.

[burkhard]

I think as well that the 35s has been given a bad rap. I have one and a 50g as well. Each has its strong and weak points. For me, keyboard on each is fine. No missed clicks or doubleclicks. Both are firm but solid. Both have printed key labels, not the old double-injected ones of 25+ years ago. That's life today.

As others have said, it comes down to what you want to use it for. I'm skipping a lot, but key differences for me are:

The 50g is *large*, not "pocketable" for most people.
It's got a great multiline screen.
The enter key size and placement is "not ideal"
Programming via RPL much more advanced than for 35g
Can communicate to computer via cable or CD card
The 50g graphs. Many non-students care little about this (use a PC instead), but just so you know...

The 35g is smaller and can fit in many pockets
The screen is two lines and more limited than that of 50g. The size/shape of the numbers tend to bug some people (including me).
General key layout generally liked (with some minor gripes). The Enter key is the right size and in the right spot.
It handles fractional math nicely (good for US users in a wood or machine shop)
Integer mode (DEC/HEX/BIN) is clumsy
A direct Rectangular ↔Polar conversion is missing
Complex number handling is weak.
Relatively simple (and rather limited compared to HP50g) keystroke-programming limited to 26 single letter labels.
No graphing

So, figure what you need and seek one out. Better yet, cover your bases and get one of each. :-)

[zx_spectrum]

(04-10-2018 04:08 PM)Ask Mait Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 09:09 PM)zx_spectrum Wrote:  i have heard a lot of horror stories about how flimsy and cheap the keyboard (and overall build-quality) of hp 35s is.
most of reviewers of hp 35s related that to the fact that hp 35s is not manufactured by hp any more but rather by some chinese company (kinpo)
so i was wondering whether the 50G also suffers from the same poor keyboard quality as the 35s.!!!

i am aware of the fact the the 50G is not as robust as the 48G and i am aware of the fact the keyboard and overall feel of 50G is just OK, BUT how is it when compared to the NOTORIOUS hp 35s ?

is the 50G as bad with the same cheap feel as the the 35s ?

I think you are worrying too much about the keyboard and general built quality, rather you can focus on what your needs are/ what it would be used for. From your post, doesn't look like you have experience with any of the 50g, 35s, 48g and probably you are attracted to these stuff only by looking at the cult following numbers..
Man, my advise would be to do some logical thinking, you are an educated person (like everybody else on this website) so use your brain for identifying the purpose of purchasing a new calculator, don't let your heart influence a scientific decision and leave it for pumping blood.

"From your post, doesn't look like you have experience with any of the 50g, 35s, 48g"
you are right about 35s and 50g but wrong about the 48g as i am a proud owner of 48g (not-a-Singapore one though)

"probably you are attracted to these stuff only by looking at the cult following numbers.."
i fell in love with RPN since i first encountered it in 2006

"so use your brain for identifying the purpose of purchasing a new calculator"
well, i have recently heard that all 48G/X will die soon (LCD bleeding issue) . so considering the fact that the future is a calculator app on smartphone-like hardware besides the idea of continuing my life with my very-hated birthday-gift casio scares the %$^# out of me.
so i am trying decide between whether to invest in 50G or stick to more 48G's from eBay because as a guy with PhD in robotics i sure can make a use of a nice machine in daily life

[John Keith]

One member here expressed concern about display bleeding in a recent thread but most responders seemed not to think it was a major issue.

If you are buying a calculator as a tool, however, the 50g is far more capable than the 48G/GX. Some examples:

Larger display
Faster and more responsive
USB connectivity
Exact integers limited only by memory
Excellent libraries including LongFloat, GoferLists, and ListExt, which are not available on the 48 series.

Like most folks here, I wish the 50g had a "proper" ENTER key and a better* keyboard layout. Still, I find the 50g much more useful than the older models.


* Though no two people can agree on what that layout would be!

[burkhard]

(04-10-2018 07:25 PM)zx_spectrum Wrote:  well, i have recently heard that all 48G/X will die soon (LCD bleeding issue) . so considering the fact that the future is a calculator app on smartphone-like hardware besides the idea of continuing my life with my very-hated birthday-gift casio scares the %$^# out of me.
so i am trying decide between whether to invest in 50G or stick to more 48G's from eBay because as a guy with PhD in robotics i sure can make a use of a nice machine in daily life

Ahhh, there was some useful information in there!
First, I don't think the 48 calculators will be dying en masse soon, so I wouldn't panic. In addition to my 50g and 35s (and a number of others), I have a 48GX (with blue screen) which I bought new. My wife also has a 48GX (black screen) which she bought new (anyone jealous?). Both work great. No display problems...yet anyhow. These things are about 20 years old already and I have faith they are good for at least another 20 years.

If you are already familiar and like the 48 (not a small machine either), I think almost certainly you should try a 50g. It's a little bigger than the 48 and the ENTER key is in a stupid place, but most everything else is similar to what you are used to, but better (and way faster). The keyboard isn't quite as fine as the 48, but the display is a whole lot better, in terms of contrast and sharpness. That isn't something that reflects degradation of the HP48 over time, but rather a complaint I've always had about them, especially the blue screen variant. For some reason as well on the 48, the slashed zero 0 and the eight 8 look too similar to me. This was the case when I was thirty and with my eyes 20 years older, it hasn't gotten better. In any event, the differentiation between these numerals is much better on the 50g.

If you are already used to a 48G and like it, the 35s may prove a lot of annoying changes for you. Go with the 50g.

Good luck!

[zx_spectrum]

actually i am not bringing up the compassion between 35s and 48g because i am confused about which one to get ; the 35s is out of question for me as i need all the functionality i can get.
but rather i brought up this subject because i got a solid impression from reviews that the 35s is poorly constructed (mind you; i never held one in hands) and i just wanted to check how the 50g is compared to that; is it as bad? is it some how better ?!! basically just trying to probe its build-quality by making a comparison to what i thought is a known data point (the 35s quality)
i am just trying to aid my decision about whether to invest a pile of money in 50g or get more 48gs (although yes the 48g is slow)
i really really really care about the quality and robustness of my tools
but it seems from your feedback that the build-quality of 50g is ok of course it is not 48g quality but just ok

[DavidM]

(04-10-2018 10:14 PM)zx_spectrum Wrote:  i am just trying to aid my decision about whether to invest a pile of money in 50g or get more 48gs (although yes the 48g is slow)
i really really really care about the quality and robustness of my tools
but it seems from your feedback that the build-quality of 50g is ok of course it is not 48g quality but just ok

I'm not able to compare the 50g to a 35s, as I haven't ever seen or held a 35s (other than pictures, of course). But if your comparison switches to a 48g, I think it really comes down to whether you plan to use or collect the unit you acquire. The construction and "feel" of the 48g is nicer than the 50g, no question. But I only reach for one of my 48s when I feel nostalgic. Actual problem-solving, or (more often for me) simply writing a program to do something useful will always have me using the 50g first. "Quality and robustness" applies to capability and performance as well, doesn't it?

Coming from a 48g, a 50g will seem like a significant step up in terms of capability, speed, and resources available (memory, storage, USB, external power). Would I have preferred the older case type and keyboard? Of course. But those aren't enough to keep me from using my 50g as my main unit now. It has held up quite well for the amount of use it has received, and I have no hesitation in recommending it for heavy use.

Also, add my voice to those who are mentioning that you need to change the default KEYTIME setting to a lower value on the 50g. I use 600 (the default setting of 1138 is much too high for my taste). Additionally, turning off the display of the system clock has reduced the likelihood of the infamous "busy bug" on my unit (delayed appearance of a pressed key until another event triggers it).

If reliable alarm execution is important to you, be advised that alarms on a 50g may or may not execute on schedule, and sometimes not at all. I never had that problem on a 48-series unit. This isn't a huge issue for me these days, but I recognize that it may be for others.

[grsbanks]

(04-10-2018 11:12 PM)DavidM Wrote:  If reliable alarm execution is important to you, be advised that alarms on a 50g may or may not execute on schedule, and sometimes not at all. I never had that problem on a 48-series unit. This isn't a huge issue for me these days, but I recognize that it may be for others.

That's about my only bugbear with the 50g. Alarms are fine as long as the unit is switched on when they become due. They just won't wake it up and if any did become due while the unit was switched off, they show as past due when you switch it on. It's a screw-up in the emulation layer (the 50g is basically running on a Saturn chip emulated by an ARM-based machine) and it won't get fixed now that the 50g is deprecated.

[TravisE]

(04-11-2018 07:45 AM)grsbanks Wrote:  That's about my only bugbear with the 50g. Alarms are fine as long as the unit is switched on when they become due. They just won't wake it up and if any did become due while the unit was switched off, they show as past due when you switch it on. It's a screw-up in the emulation layer (the 50g is basically running on a Saturn chip emulated by an ARM-based machine) and it won't get fixed now that the 50g is deprecated.

I never had much hope of there being an official fix even while the RPL part of the system was under active maintenance. It appeared nobody wanted to step up and take responsibility for issues in the low-level/emulation part of the OS, least of all Kinpo itself. I've always been hoping someone in the community may someday investigate the issue and perhaps find a way to create some sort of patch, as I've seen happen several times in the TI calculator community with user-created patches for certain hated bugs/restrictions on some of the TI model families.

[Manolo Sobrino]

Now that it's been discontinued for a while, I guess an official Android/iOS version of the 50g would be quite popular.

If you're reading this, what do you think Tim?


(I'm not particularly fond of the hardware version -its LCD is great though-, but that's water under the bridge now.)

[pier4r]

(04-15-2018 11:25 AM)Manolo Sobrino Wrote:  Now that it's been discontinued for a while, I guess an official Android/iOS version of the 50g would be quite popular.

If you're reading this, what do you think Tim?

The hp prime app, that is more user friendly than the 50g, has barely 1 to 9 thousand downloads as paid version and 10 to 99 thousand as free. And the prime is really amazing, I am already grateful that is there on android.

I don't believe a 50g version is economically feasible (if anything one should wait for a dedicated personal project, a la free42/newRPL). Besides, there are people that ported emulators for free that are functional, see Droid48.

[rprosperi]

Does anyone know a link to a 50g emulator for Android that has an ugly skin??