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wb.c · 12-15-2023, 10:21 PM

(12-15-2023 08:38 PM)toml_12953 Wrote:
(12-15-2023 05:37 PM)wb.c Wrote: Isn’t the argument for the HP35s as a useful tool was the fact that people made programs, for example in surveying. The argument for or against RPN is a different discussion all together. HP35s programs, even though written in RPN, do not exactly use RPN for entry. Single line entry then R/S. I’m talking about the HP35s here, not the SM calculators.

True, but I know many engineers who won't consider algebraic no matter what the difference in cost. They will gladly pay $300 or more for a used HP before spending $39.95 on a new algebraic. Even the 35s is familiar enough to them to be useful. The separate entry line and X register don't bother them much.

Alright, I wanted to save this topic for a new thread, but I will go on a little rant here in regard to RPN vs modern entry types. Keep in mind that the single line "algebraic" entry from the 80's is not what I have in mind when I compare modern entry types to RPN. Natural text book format, or mathprint entry styles quite literally ended RPN. Don't take my word for it, just ask HP, they are all but out of the calculator game discontinuing the HP35s in 2021. They now have only 3 models listed: HP10BII, HP12C, and HP Prime G2. Modern natural/mathprint input styles allow for speed without having to learn a new "skill" (RPN). It is plug and play. You can verify entries, let the calculator worry about order of operations, edit inputs, reuse inputs. The whole argument for RPN was the fact that algebraic entry on single line with parenthesis was terrible, and if you had to work out all the parenthesis, it was faster to work your way out of a problem with RPN, which it was, and HP capitalized on that while it lasted. Even if for an individual user, RPN entry was faster because of familiarity, there is a reason HP stopped making them. People simply stopped buying them. I do all my work on a computer, all my hand calculation are done in SMath (MathCAD type program), all my units are verified, all my number crunching is checked, I can edit and modify past calculation and reuse then in new calculations. Most engineers probably use excel, but I don't like the fact that it doesn't directly show your work, so it is not as good for engineering calculations (IMO). The last time I did a hand calculation with a calculator for work was the moment before I discovered a better way to do it, probably about a week into my first job. Obviously I was not alone, otherwise we would see a lot more "professional" calculators on the market. Instead, we see educational calculators and exam calculators. Aside from people who do calculations in the field (i.e. surveying and the like), and the minority of professionals who crank out hand calcs, the calculator is a tool from a time before computers. Even then, field calcs are becoming less common as surveying tools have improved and all the data is worked into the digital world.
Like I said before. I'm sure at one point a slide rule guy said the same thing about calculators, and now history is repeating itself, but RPN is in the place of the slide rule.

As for the awesome DM42, it is very cool, updated and as far as RPN goes, the best you can get. Would I use it as my primary computation device for work and make design programs to calculate my designs? Not in the engineering work I do. People don't pay extra for hand calcs, and it would be extremely limiting. So then, you have to ask yourself if the price of the DM42 is worth the simple arithmetic calcs you might do on it at your desk while sitting in front of your work station that has a core i9 in it.

If you want to use an RPN calculator because you like it, that's fine, just say I like RPN and that is why I use it. I still love messing around with my HP35s, but you can't make the claim that it is better when literally the entire world disagrees.

The fact is:
slide rule < single line algebraic < RPN < Natural/Mathprint < Computers

That is why calculator manufactures are now only focused on education and testing and desk calculators for basic arithmetic (which admittedly I use my overly capable TI's, Casio's, and HP's for).