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The HP-12c and platinum Kinpo story
Yesterday, 10:00 PM
Post: #11
dm319 Offline
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RE: The HP-12c and platinum Kinpo story
(12-02-2024 09:10 PM)Eric Rechlin Wrote:  Perhaps some similarities between the 12c Platinum and the Saturn machines were more due to the greater number of internal digits compared to the 12C rather than shared code.

OK I said I would come back to this, and maybe after
carefully looking through the results, my confidence might
be slightly less, though I'm still suspicious (of the
general hypothesis that 12c platinum and saturn+ machines
share code).

The Saturn+ machines (HP-10bII+, HP-17B, HP-17BII, HP17BII+
mk1 and mk2, HP-19BII, HP-27S, HP-20b, HP-30b, HP-50G, HP
Prime) essentially return identical results and I feel
confident saying they likely run the same software.

Previously I had pointed out problem 4 as evidence for the
HP-12cp and saturn+ similarities, but this was somewhat
disproven by Albert, who pointed out that it was correct
given the accuracy of representing the PMT (see
this
thread):

Code:
| calculator                  | 3                                    | 4                                       |
|-----------------------------|--------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------|
| Sharp EL-735                | 331559.3833                          | 0                                       |
| Sharp PC-1403H HPF 188177   | 331667.0067                          | 0                                       |
| Sharp PC-1421               | 331559.3833                          | ERR                                     |
| Victor V12                  | 331667.0067                          | ERR                                     |
| TI BA II Plus Professional  | 331667.0067                          | -6.652807e-14                           |
| HP-12c                      | 331667.0067                          | -7.983367984e-10                        |
| HP-12c Platinum             | 331667.006691                        | -7.98336798336e-12                      |
| HP-10bII+                   | 331667.006691                        | -7.98336798336e-12                      |
| HP-17B                      | 331667.006691                        | -7.98336798336e-12                      |
| HP-17BII                    | 331667.006691                        | -7.98336798336e-12                      |
| HP-17BII+ mk1               | NA                                   | -7.98336798336e-12                      |
| HP-17BII+ mk2               | 331667.006691                        | -7.98336798336e-12                      |
| HP-19BII                    | NA                                   | -7.98336798336e-12                      |
| HP-27S                      | 331667.006691                        | -7.98336798336e-12                      |
| HP-20b                      | 331667.006691                        | -7.98336798336e-12                      |
| HP-30b                      | 331667.006691                        | -7.98336798336e-12                      |
| HP-50G                      | 331667.006691                        | -7.98336798336e-12                      |
| HP Prime 2.1.14730          | 331667.006691                        | -7.98336798336e-12                      |
| Casio FC-200                | 331667.0067                          | -8.316008316e-13                        |
| Casio FC-100V               | 331667.006690768                     | ERR                                     |
| Casio FC-200V               | 331667.006690768                     | ERR                                     |
| Busicom FN200               | 331732.5479008                       | ERR                                     |
| Busicom FN400               | 331667.0066903                       | ERR                                     |
| Ref                         | 331667.00669077689178034190843596256 | 0                                       |

But some potential 'forensic' markers could be problem 8:
N = 32, PV = -999'999, PMT = 0, FV = 1e6, P/YR = 1, calculate i (end mode)

My reference result is 3.125001611329216004244745444268174e-6

Code:

| calculator                          | 7                                        | 8                                      |
|-------------------------------------|------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------|
| HP-92                               | 0                                        | 3.125e-6                               |
| HP-37E                              | 0                                        | 3.125e-6                               |
| HP-38E                              | 0                                        | 3.125e-6                               |
| HP-12c                              | 2.181818182e-10                          | 3.125004736e-6                         |
| HP-12c Platinum                     | 2.18181818182e-10                        | 3.125001e-6                            |
| HP-12c Rogue One                    | ERR                                      | 3.125001e-6                            |
| HP-10bII+                           | 2.16e-10                                 | 3.125001e-6                            |
| HP-17B                              | 2.16987100416e-10                        | 3.125001e-6                            |
| HP-17BII                            | 2.16e-10                                 | 3.125001e-6                            |
| HP-17BII+ mk1                       | 2.16e-10                                 | 3.125001e-6                            |
| HP-17BII+ mk2                       | 2.16e-10                                 | 3.125001e-6                            |
| HP-19BII                            | 2.16e-10                                 | 3.125001e-6                            |
| HP-27S                              |                                          | 3.125001e-6                            |
| HP-20b                              | 2.16e-10                                 | 3.125001e-6                            |
| HP-30b                              | 2.16e-10                                 | 3.125001e-6                            |
| HP-50G                              | 2.16278831114e-10                        | 3.125001e-6                            |
| HP Prime 2.1.14730                  | 2.16e-10                                 | 3.125001e-6                            |
| Casio FC-200                        | 2.181818182e-10                          | 3.125e-6                               |
| Sharp EL-735                        | 0                                        | 3.124e-06                              |
| Sharp PC-1403H HPF 188177           | 0                                        | 3.12500161e-06                         |
| Sharp PC-1421                       | 0                                        | 3.124e-06                              |
| Victor V12                          | ERR                                      | 3.1250016e-6                           |
| BWK Business                        | 0                                        | 3.1250015e-6                           |
| Busicom FN200                       | ERR                                      | 3.125e-6                               |
| Busicom FN400                       | 0                                        | 3.125001611324e-6                      |
| RPN83P v0.9.0                       | 2.2191952055123e-10                      | 3.1250015273452e-6                     |
| RPN83P v0.12.0 RC2                  | 2.1818181818159e-10                      | 3.1250015273454e-6                     |
| RPN83P v0.12.0                      | 2.1818181818159e-10                      | 3.1250015273453e-6                     |
| RPN83P v1.0.0                       | 2.1818181818159e-10                      | 3.1250016113285e-6                     |
| TI-83 Plus                          | 2.181818181858e-10                       | 3.125001611329e-6                      |
| TI BA II Plus Professional          | 2.181818e-10                             | 3.125e-06                              |
| Casio FC-100V                       | ERR                                      | 3.125001e-6                            |
| Casio FC-200V                       | ERR                                      | 3.125001e-6                            |
| LibreOffice Calc 25.2.5.2           | -1.78732324199982e-9                     | 3.12500160353871e-6                    |
| Microsoft Excel 2408                | -2.86173808630135e-8                     | 3.12500160550423e-6                    |
| HP-67 Standard Pac                  | 0                                        | 3.1e-6                                 |

The saturn+ returned 3.125001e-6, and so did the platinum.
On the other hand, so did the rogue 12c, and the Casio
FC-100V and FC-200V. So, again not specific for the
platinum and saturns, and also it is a solve-for-i, so doesn't
fit with my theory.

Puzzle 12 returns -1001.6 for the saturn+ and platinum, and
none other of the calculators. However, -1001.6 is the
correct answer if you calculate the interest rate as
0.80000000001, 12 decimal places. However, still interesting
that it has returned this value to 5 digits, maybe?

Code:

| calculator                  | 11                                     | 12                                   |
|-----------------------------|----------------------------------------|--------------------------------------|
| HP-12c                      | 0.1666898147                           | -900                                 |
| HP-12c Platinum             | 0.166666666656                         | -1001.6                              |
| HP-12c Rogue One            | ERR                                    | ERR                                  |
| HP-17B                      | 0.166666666654                         | -1001.6                              |
| HP-17BII+ mk1               | 0.166666666654                         | -1001.6                              |
| HP-17BII+ mk2               | 0.166666666654                         | -1001.6                              |
| HP-27S                      | 0.166666666654                         | -1001.6                              |
| HP-20b                      | 0.166666666653                         | -1001.6                              |
| HP-30b                      | 0.166666666653                         | -1001.6                              |
| HP Prime 2.1.14730          | 0.166666666654                         | -1001.6                              |
| RPN83P v0.9.0               | 0.16666666666479                       | -986                                 |
| RPN83P v0.12.0 RC2          | 0.16666666665958                       | -987                                 |
| RPN83P v0.12.0              | 0.16666666666479                       | -986                                 |
| RPN83P v1.0.0               | 0.16666666666479                       | -986                                 |
| TI-83 Plus                  | 0.16666666665001                       | -900                                 |
| NSTK TVM V8                 | 0.166666666666666666666666666624694    | -1000                                |
| TI BA II Plus Professional  | 0.166666667                            | -999.54                              |
| Sharp EL-735                | 0.104784254                            | -975.1051597                         |
| Sharp PC-1403H HPF 188177   | 0.1666673857                           | -900                                 |
| Sharp PC-1421               | 1.073741824e9                          | -975.1051597                         |
| Ref                         | 0.166666666666666666666666666666666667 | -1000                                |
| BWK Business                | ERR                                    | -999.35950000                        |
| Victor V12                  | ERR                                    | -900                                 |
| Casio FC-100V               | 0.1666661832                           | -1000.0028450724                     |
| Casio FC-200V               | 0.1666661832                           | -1000.0028450724                     |
| LibreOffice Calc 25.2.5.2   | ERR                                    | -1000                                |
| Microsoft Excel 2408        | ERR                                    | ERR                                  |
| Busicom FN400               | 0.1666666665168                        | -1000                                |
| Busicom FN200               | ERR                                    | -1001.58                             |
| HP-67 Standard Pac          | -2.096903649e-5                        | -16611937.62                         |

So in summary, I am less confident about my claim that the
HP-12c platinum is running some of the TVM code seen in the
Saturn+ calculators. There are some particular differences,
especially in the solve-for-i algorithm, which is not the
same as on the Saturns, which we knew about. Otherwise it
is very similar, but Eric, you might well be right, that
this could well be more a feature of the 15/12 digit
accuracy. However, it's interesting that the HP-12c
platinum _does_ have a 15/12 calculator platform, but agree
I can't say I've convinced myself of TVM code sharing with
the Saturns.

On the otherhand, overall, there are lots of similarities,
like the failure on puzzle 5 and 6, and the overall
implementation is very good (the best HP TVM solver
overall?), like the HP-12c.

Curious!
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RE: The HP-12c and platinum Kinpo story - dm319 - Yesterday 10:00 PM



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