imaginary unit (i) position on key
03-19-2018, 02:13 PM
Post: #1
 hpprime123 Junior Member Posts: 8 Joined: Mar 2018
imaginary unit (i) position on key
Maybe it's silly, but why i symbol is on 2 key? It would not be better on 1 key?
03-19-2018, 04:56 PM (This post was last modified: 03-19-2018 04:59 PM by DrD.)
Post: #2
 DrD Senior Member Posts: 1,133 Joined: Feb 2014
RE: imaginary unit (i) position on key
Having the [Program] on key 1 seems logical, but why do you feel having the [i] there would be significantly better?
03-19-2018, 05:11 PM (This post was last modified: 03-20-2018 09:42 PM by StephenG1CMZ.)
Post: #3
 StephenG1CMZ Senior Member Posts: 1,033 Joined: May 2015
RE: imaginary unit (i) position on key
Although it is not practical given the location of the Program key, and certainly does not need changing, it does seem slightly logical, using the argument that i = 1i, whereas 2 seems like an arbitrary choice.

In fact, one could have
1 for 1i (or i might also represent the identity matrix, comprising 1's, in that context)
2 for e (2.7...)
3 for Pi (3.1...).

But keyboards have never been logical, otherwise the numeric keys would include ABCDEF, following the layout of 123 456 789 ABC DEF.

Stephen Lewkowicz (G1CMZ)
https://my.numworks.com/python/steveg1cmz
03-19-2018, 05:11 PM (This post was last modified: 03-19-2018 05:12 PM by Tim Wessman.)
Post: #4
 Tim Wessman Senior Member Posts: 2,293 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: imaginary unit (i) position on key
You are right - that placement is slightly arbitrary.

The catalogs are in a row (List, Matrix, Program, Notes")
List brackets next to the list catalog.
Matrix brackets next to the matrix catalog.
" " on the Notes key.
Pi on the 3 key.
Space/underscore are together.
# is next to Base

i just sort of ended up there because there wasn't any compelling reason to place it elsewhere that wasn't already filled by something with a strong reason to be placed and it was as good a place as any of the remaining positions.

TW

Although I work for HP, the views and opinions I post here are my own.
03-21-2018, 05:33 PM
Post: #5
 hpprime123 Junior Member Posts: 8 Joined: Mar 2018
RE: imaginary unit (i) position on key
(03-19-2018 04:56 PM)DrD Wrote:  Having the [Program] on key 1 seems logical, but why do you feel having the [i] there would be significantly better?

For consistency: 1 integer unit, i complex unit.

The calculator is fantastic but (some) key assignments are inexplicable.
03-21-2018, 06:31 PM (This post was last modified: 03-21-2018 06:36 PM by Tim Wessman.)
Post: #6
 Tim Wessman Senior Member Posts: 2,293 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: imaginary unit (i) position on key
Why would 1 and i be linked in higher priority then keeping all the catalog keys right in a row on the left side though? That was my point - that priority was much higher in my mind then what is arguably a very unused thing (i) for general students.

True, 1 makes sense with i mathematically - but is that more important then placing all the catalogs in a neat row?

What are some more of your "strangely placed keys"? Maybe I can explain the reasoning behind some of them.

When you get right down to it, there will always be some arbitrary placements in the end. Not everything can be perfectly "logical".

TW

Although I work for HP, the views and opinions I post here are my own.
03-22-2018, 10:12 AM
Post: #7
 hpprime123 Junior Member Posts: 8 Joined: Mar 2018
RE: imaginary unit (i) position on key
Keys priority depends on user. My opinion is that the keys should be where the user thinks they should be.

(), [], {} on the same key.
Point (.), comma (,) on the same key.
Enter, Equal(=)
+/- key, should be on the numeric keypad.
...

The text entry in the style of smartphons (not with keys).
Also, I miss keys to move the stack (I like rpn).

Excellent calculator with poor key assignments
03-22-2018, 11:49 AM
Post: #8
 Carlos295pz Senior Member Posts: 365 Joined: Sep 2015
RE: imaginary unit (i) position on key
Begins its publication stating that it may not be something important but ends up affirming a poor allocation of keys ... (the interface design is important but this is solved by the manufacturer under factors of use and efficiency). It certainly depends on the user, but the proposed distribution does not sound practical, I do not see the simplicity of typing, rather a grouping by similars that omites efficient typing.

I think currently it has a perfectly friendly distribution, its separation into 2 simple groups, navigation (black zone) and common insertion, continues with the general design of being a simple calculator and not one for expert astronauts.

Viga C | TD | FB
03-22-2018, 01:50 PM
Post: #9
 hpprime123 Junior Member Posts: 8 Joined: Mar 2018
RE: imaginary unit (i) position on key
We agree that we disagree.

I think the key interface must be completely redesigned, maybe the time has come to dispense with the keys.
03-22-2018, 02:38 PM
Post: #10
 Han Senior Member Posts: 1,882 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: imaginary unit (i) position on key
(03-21-2018 05:33 PM)hpprime123 Wrote:
(03-19-2018 04:56 PM)DrD Wrote:  Having the [Program] on key 1 seems logical, but why do you feel having the [i] there would be significantly better?

For consistency: 1 integer unit, i complex unit.

The calculator is fantastic but (some) key assignments are inexplicable.

You do realize that there are an infinite number of complex units I hope. The connection between 1 and i is about a tenuous and arbitrary as the connection between pi and 1.

I agree that keys should be laid out based on a user’s preference. We have user keys for that.

Graph 3D | QPI | SolveSys
03-22-2018, 02:59 PM
Post: #11
 hpprime123 Junior Member Posts: 8 Joined: Mar 2018
RE: imaginary unit (i) position on key
The connection between 1 and i is about a tenuous and arbitrary as the connection between pi and 1.

tenuous???
i = sqr(-1) = imaginary axis unit
03-22-2018, 03:14 PM
Post: #12
 DA74254 Member Posts: 190 Joined: Sep 2017
RE: imaginary unit (i) position on key
(03-22-2018 02:59 PM)hpprime123 Wrote:  The connection between 1 and i is about a tenuous and arbitrary as the connection between pi and 1.

tenuous???
i = sqr(-1) = imaginary axis unit

Yes, and Pi/3,14 almost equals 1

Esben
28s, 35s, 49G+, 50G, Prime G2 HW D, SwissMicros DM42, DM32, WP43 Pilot
Elektronika MK-52 & MK-61
03-22-2018, 03:34 PM (This post was last modified: 03-22-2018 03:34 PM by hpprime123.)
Post: #13
 hpprime123 Junior Member Posts: 8 Joined: Mar 2018
RE: imaginary unit (i) position on key
(03-22-2018 03:14 PM)DA74254 Wrote:  Yes, and Pi/3,14 almost equals 1

I think you can do better.
03-22-2018, 04:13 PM
Post: #14
 Han Senior Member Posts: 1,882 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: imaginary unit (i) position on key
(03-22-2018 02:59 PM)hpprime123 Wrote:  The connection between 1 and i is about a tenuous and arbitrary as the connection between pi and 1.

tenuous???
i = sqr(-1) = imaginary axis unit

And $$\cos(\pi) = 1$$, and $$\pi^0 = 1$$, and $$-e^{-i \pi } = 1$$, ...

So yes, tenuous given the infinite number of ways one can relate any two numbers. One case might be more useful to some people and not necessarily others (most high school students only work in the set of real numbers). This makes valuing one identity over any of the other identities arbitrary.

Graph 3D | QPI | SolveSys
03-22-2018, 05:02 PM
Post: #15
 chromos Member Posts: 223 Joined: Jun 2015
RE: imaginary unit (i) position on key
These "imaginary" keyboard layout issues are nothing against this:

Prime G2, 15C CE
03-22-2018, 05:20 PM
Post: #16
 hpprime123 Junior Member Posts: 8 Joined: Mar 2018
RE: imaginary unit (i) position on key

but it is that i is the unit of the imaginary axis and 1 the unit of de real axis.
03-23-2018, 02:09 AM
Post: #17
 Joe Horn Senior Member Posts: 2,002 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: imaginary unit (i) position on key
(03-22-2018 10:12 AM)hpprime123 Wrote:  My opinion is that the keys should be where the user thinks they should be.

They are EXACTLY where the user thinks they should be, IF the user reads the manual and takes advantage of USER mode key assignments.

HP gave you the power to rearrange the keys however you wish, and you paid for that functionality. Use it.

(03-22-2018 10:12 AM)hpprime123 Wrote:  Excellent calculator with poor key assignments

USER mode means that poor key assignments are a thing of the past. If you still have poor key assignments, fix 'em yourself.

Thank you, HP, for USER mode!

<0|ɸ|0>
-Joe-
03-23-2018, 04:24 PM (This post was last modified: 03-23-2018 04:39 PM by hpprime123.)
Post: #18
 hpprime123 Junior Member Posts: 8 Joined: Mar 2018
RE: imaginary unit (i) position on key
Well, but judging by the distribution of keys of HP Prime, HP 49g + and HP-48GX, it seems that Hp is only clear where to place the numeric keys.

;-)))
03-25-2018, 08:32 PM (This post was last modified: 03-25-2018 08:34 PM by TheKaneB.)
Post: #19
 TheKaneB Member Posts: 175 Joined: Jul 2014
RE: imaginary unit (i) position on key
(03-23-2018 04:24 PM)hpprime123 Wrote:  Well, but judging by the distribution of keys of HP Prime, HP 49g + and HP-48GX, it seems that Hp is only clear where to place the numeric keys.

;-)))

I keep messing up with the basic operations on the 15C and the 41C, they are scrambled!

Still love both of them though

Software Failure: Guru Meditation

--
Antonio
IU2KIY
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