Is the HP 50g the last RPN calculator?

[BartDB]

Hi,

As always I have my (sometimes controversial) opinions:

(09-22-2018 10:34 PM)Eddie W. Shore Wrote:  Is the HP 50g the last RPN (RPL) calculator produced by HP? I hope not.

How long has it been for the 50g been out of production?

I feel old.

HP 35s is the only HP Scientific RPN calculator currently in production.
HP 12C, 12CP and 17BII+ are financial RPN calculators currently in production.

(09-22-2018 10:44 PM)Jlouis Wrote:  Don't forget that the Prime has RPN in home environment.

Nah, just a bolt-on to keep the RPN crowd happy, like crumbs off a table.

(09-23-2018 01:06 AM)rprosperi Wrote:  The 11C offers nothing that isn't the same or better in a 15C, so no need to dabble with it. The only advantage of an 11C, today, is they are much cheaper than a 15C, and if you don't need Complex or Matrix support, Solver or Integration, then 11C is the way to go. But what sensible person that is seriously considering these machines could conclude they will never need those functions? Which is why 15C's cost more...

I would argue the 11C offers simplicity. With most people having access to computers that can do the more complicated stuff, a simple scientific by the side to quick calculations is sufficient.

(09-24-2018 05:13 PM)Jlouis Wrote:  RPL is a programming language, IMHO.

I totally agree, and it is a programming language useful for a calculator.

HP Prime Programming Language is an Algol* type programming language that is no longer suited to a calculator but rather for a PC or something with a full QWERTY keyboard, being too cumbersome for a calculator keyboard.

*footnote: I have an issue with many modern programming languages with "basic" in their name when they are actually Algol type languages not having any resemblance to BASIC and do not deserve to have "basic" in their name.
.

[John Keith]

(09-25-2018 09:46 AM)BartDB Wrote:  Hi,

As always I have my (sometimes controversial) opinions:



Nah, just a bolt-on to keep the RPN crowd happy, like crumbs off a table.




I would argue the 11C offers simplicity. With most people having access to computers that can do the more complicated stuff, a simple scientific by the side to quick calculations is sufficient.



I totally agree, and it is a programming language useful for a calculator.

HP Prime Programming Language is an Algol* type programming language that is no longer suited to a calculator but rather for a PC or something with a full QWERTY keyboard, being too cumbersome for a calculator keyboard.

*footnote: I have an issue with many modern programming languages with "basic" in their name when they are actually Algol type languages not having any resemblance to BASIC and do not deserve to have "basic" in their name.
.

I agree with most of your controversial opinions.

The HP15 was very impressive for its time but I find the HP11 to be just right.

I'm not a fan of PPL either. I wish they had chosen Python as the language for the Prime, although I am encouraged by Claudio's efforts to port NewRPL to the Prime.

[grsbanks]

(09-25-2018 09:46 AM)BartDB Wrote:  HP Prime Programming Language is an Algol* type programming language that is no longer suited to a calculator but rather for a PC or something with a full QWERTY keyboard, being too cumbersome for a calculator keyboard.

That's a very valid observation.

It's nigh on impossible to write a program or app and input it directly on the Prime. The Connectivity Kit and the Virtual Prime are absolute necessities for this specifically because you can (must!) use a full-size keyboard.

As mentioned by someone else, I'd really love to see newRPL ported to the Prime.

[rprosperi]

(09-25-2018 08:48 AM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  

(09-25-2018 12:59 AM)toml_12953 Wrote:  Yeah but us old PDP-8 programmers hate that! FOCAL was a totally different language used on PDPs

But that was an Algebraic Language!

I'll add that that FOCAL was very BASIC, but only a select few will appreciate that.

[toml_12953]

(09-25-2018 12:48 PM)John Keith Wrote:  I'm not a fan of PPL either. I wish they had chosen Python as the language for the Prime, although I am encouraged by Claudio's efforts to port NewRPL to the Prime.

I like most things Python but really don't like that you have to have fixed indents. In most languages, you can choose to indent or not and how much to indent if you want. Python is too parochial for me. HPPL suites me just fine. I admit that it's tough using the Prime keyboard but it's worth it to me. For longer programs, I can always use a text editor on a PC and send it to the Prime.

[Claudio L.]

(09-25-2018 12:38 AM)Joe Horn Wrote:  What's this silliness about the 50g not being RPN? Here are two reasons why it *is* RPN, in my famously humble opinion.

(1) Press [MODE]. What options does it give you in the very first line? Algebraic and RPN (not RPL). And the manual calls it RPN. So if HP and the 50g itself call it RPN, it's RPN.

(2) Don't forget that "RPN" is an acronym that actually stands for something. Just as "1+2" is algebraic notation, "1 2 +" is Reverse Polish Notation. Which of those expressions are understood by the 50g? BOTH of them. So it's both an algebraic and an RPN machine. Furthermore, RPN (the NOTATION) makes no assumptions whatsoever about the size of the stack or the existence of a command line or the existence of stack lift disabling. Those things have nothing to do with whether a machine is RPN or not; they are merely different ways of IMPLEMENTING RPN. If the user calculates 1 plus 2 by keying 1 2 +, then the machine is RPN. The rest is details.

About time somebody added a bit of common sense to that senseless argument RPN vs RPL. Much appreciated.

[Jlouis]

(09-25-2018 06:07 PM)Claudio L. Wrote:  

(09-25-2018 12:38 AM)Joe Horn Wrote:  What's this silliness about the 50g not being RPN? Here are two reasons why it *is* RPN, in my famously humble opinion.

(1) Press [MODE]. What options does it give you in the very first line? Algebraic and RPN (not RPL). And the manual calls it RPN. So if HP and the 50g itself call it RPN, it's RPN.

(2) Don't forget that "RPN" is an acronym that actually stands for something. Just as "1+2" is algebraic notation, "1 2 +" is Reverse Polish Notation. Which of those expressions are understood by the 50g? BOTH of them. So it's both an algebraic and an RPN machine. Furthermore, RPN (the NOTATION) makes no assumptions whatsoever about the size of the stack or the existence of a command line or the existence of stack lift disabling. Those things have nothing to do with whether a machine is RPN or not; they are merely different ways of IMPLEMENTING RPN. If the user calculates 1 plus 2 by keying 1 2 +, then the machine is RPN. The rest is details.

About time somebody added a bit of common sense to that senseless argument RPN vs RPL. Much appreciated.

But wasn't he (elegantly) argumenting on the RPL vs RPN debate? What is senseless is not debating things we care in a forum of things we care.

Just my R$0,02 (4 times less than 2 dollars cents)

RPN regards,

JL