What group made it?

[Orome]

I'm aware that various different groups were responsible for different models or families of calculators over time. But I can't find an account that systematically lists which group was responsible for what calculator.

Is there such a thing? Clearly some calculators are quite distinct in design style and philosophy from others (even the manuals can be different in formatting and organization), and I wonder how much of that can be attributed to different groups working on them.

[cyrille de brébisson]

Hello,

Calculators used to be in Corvalis, Oregon, up to 1998 or so... So, all calcs created before that came form that group. This included all calcs up to the HP38G...
Note that at the end, the calculator group was part of the larger PDA division which included the 95LX series and the Jordanas. This division was based in Singapore, but the calc work was still in Corvalis.

In 98, calculators moved to Melbourne, Australia (when I joined), we worked on the 49 39 series, remade the 10BII and 12C at the time. We worked on a number of aborted projects also... This lasted 4 years until the division was killed by Carly Fiorina...

in 2002, it was restarted with the head in San Diego and R&D (basically me) in Boise Idaho, with the help of Hydrix, a company in Melbourne, staffed with... you guessed it, old calculator engineers, we developed the "app series" 50G and the like based on the ARM chip emulating the Saturn. At kind of the same time, we also did a new 17BII+ and 12C platinum...
Forward some more years and we had the 20B series, more 12C/10B redesigns due to CPU changes... At this point, Tim joined me...
Some more years and we did the 39GII+ and now Prime. Throw in some more 10BII and 12C redesign in the mix...By then, I had moved to Europe...

Here you go, the rough story...

[EdS2]

Thanks for the history! (And for the calculators...)

[Paul Dale]

I did the network boot loader for one of the aborted projects when I worked for Lineo/Snapgear way back then

I've got a box of development boards and paraphernalia somewhere.


Pauli

[Joe Horn]

If I remember correctly, the HP-35 was designed at HP Labs in Palo Alto, California, and manufactured at HP's Advanced Products Department in Cupertino, California, and very soon afterwards also in Singapore.

Anybody know when HP's Calculator Division moved to Corvallis, Oregon?

[KimH]

This might help

About Corvallis

(03-17-2020 09:26 AM)Joe Horn Wrote:  If I remember correctly, the HP-35 was designed at HP Labs in Palo Alto, California, and manufactured at HP's Advanced Products Department in Cupertino, California, and very soon afterwards also in Singapore.

Anybody know when HP's Calculator Division moved to Corvallis, Oregon?

[Orome]

cyrille de brébisson Wrote:  Here you go, the rough story...

Great history! Thanks!

Where does the 35s (or the 32SII) fit in there? I'm particularly interested in the design history of the former.

Also curious about the physical design changes between the 38s/48s and the 39s/49s.

[David Hayden]

(03-17-2020 07:19 AM)cyrille de brébisson Wrote:  We worked on a number of aborted projects also...

It's been a long time. Is there any chance that you could tell us about some of the aborted projects? If not here then perhaps at HHC under an NDA.

Thanks for the history.

Dave

[Steve Simpkin]

(03-17-2020 08:25 PM)David Hayden Wrote:  

(03-17-2020 07:19 AM)cyrille de brébisson Wrote:  We worked on a number of aborted projects also...

It's been a long time. Is there any chance that you could tell us about some of the aborted projects? If not here then perhaps at HHC under an NDA.

Thanks for the history.

Dave

I can think of at least one during that time.
https://www.hpmuseum.org/xpand.htm
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_Xpander

[cyrille de brébisson]

Hello,

>Where does the 35s (or the 32SII) fit in there? I'm particularly interested
>in the design history of the former.
in the early 2000s, we lost the ability to make any of the saturn based chips...
The designs were to old and we did not have any HW experience...
So we could not manufacture the 32S anymore... Hence the 32SII.
When it came close to the 35th anniversary of the 35, we (don't know who) decided to make an "anniversary model", and since we needed, at the same time to make a new rev of the 32SII to fix some bugs, the 2 got merged together...
Working with the ODM, I created first a 2D design, then a 3D design.
The work would go as follow. I sent ideas as "text" with pictures of existing calculators to the ODM, saying: use this from there, use this form there and so on and then would generate a number of drawing (first 2D, then 3D). I would ask them to make some changes and iterate until we only had 2 designs left. Then marketing got to pick from them.

At some points, I had 8 or 10 pictures lying on the floor, looking at all of them, selecting features I liked from here and there to try to generate the final version.

I am not a "mechanical engineer", nor an "artist"... I can not draw and I have a hard time with imagining colors... But I am good with imagining volumes and I can tell, when I see something what I like, what I do not like, and why...
I am also quite traditional... So it helped in the process...
Here is an example of one of my création... 20 points for the first one who can figure out what it is... and 5 point per wood essence identified :-)



>Also curious about the physical design changes between the 38s/48s
>and the 39s/49s.
The change came at the Corvalis/Australia split time...
The Melbourne team did not have any of the mechanical files, so we had to redo it anyway...
At the same time, the focus for the calcs changed from engineers to more youth/education, and also lower cost...
This drove the change to the harder/more solid plastic body, the super hard plastic screen protection (which I hated, I have a version with the screen protection hollowed out for clearer view!) and the cheaper membrane based keyboard.
The 39/49 are very tough calculators... they are smaller than the 48 series and not unpleasant to look at... save for the frozen hamster but color (which is how this community called the 49g blue when you first saw it :-)....


>It's been a long time. Is there any chance that you could tell us about
>some of the aborted projects? If not here then perhaps at HHC under an NDA.
Xpander is public, and the links have been posted...
The other one, Calypso (I think HP X25 was the official name) was a PDA for teenagers... It was also shown publically. It was a black and white 320*240 screen PDA with a 201Mhz strong arm running Linux, a Java VM (HP Chai) and on which you would be able to connect to a "store" and download applications... Mind you, this was designed in 2000/2001! Ho, it was also blue :-)

We were ready to release version 1 when the calculator group was disbanded...

At the time, I traveled to Helsinki to present the thing to a developer conference (hosted by HP, but with 3rd parties)... Then I had a "pit stop" in france to see my familly. I was due to travel back to Australia, through the US, on september 12th 2001...
As you can imagine... This did not happen... I finally flew on the 14th (from memory), it was an earie experience, with empty planes...
The Chicago Ohare airport was deserted... I remember security was mostly not present as they was no-one... I arrived at the door for my flight from Chicago to SF and they was no door attendant, the door was open, so I just walked in... above the door, the sign was displaying "Everything is done to ensure your security"... I found it funny...
Basically, every passenger had a row to himself in these flights... Which is nice when you are flying on a 13h flight in a 747 from SF to Melbourne!
Upon arrival, I got a phone call from a friend telling me: don't bother coming at work after landing, they just anouced that the division is being disbanded as part of the 10% layoff that is happening...
Anyhow, this is now ancient history!

Cyrille

[Stevetuc]

Hi Cyrille
Is it a reflecting telescope?

[DA74254]

To elaborate; a Dobsonian type Newton reflector. I would even guess a 3" mirror with an F8'ish aperture

[rprosperi]

(03-18-2020 06:50 AM)cyrille de brébisson Wrote:  Hello,

>Where does the 35s (or the 32SII) fit in there? I'm particularly interested
>in the design history of the former.
in the early 2000s, we lost the ability to make any of the saturn based chips...
The designs were to old and we did not have any HW experience...
So we could not manufacture the 32S anymore... Hence the 32SII.

Thanks for the additional history and background Cyrille, possibly new material for another revision of Wlodek's book?

In the details above you describe the reasons for starting new designs for non-Saturn machines; I think this applies to creation of the 33S and not the 32SII, right? The 32SII definitely came from the Corvallis team as I recall stories of Joe Horn finding bugs in the 32SII Fractions feature with folks in Corvallis.

This also makes sense considering the radically different mechanical design of the 33S, while the 32SII is pure Pioneer.

The design of the 33S is very polarizing, nearly everyone loves it or hates it; very few users are indifferent about the chevrons and silver finish.

Again, thanks for taking time to fill in some gaps.

[Orome]

Stevetuc Wrote:  Is it a reflecting telescope?

And it looks like with that length and pointy end it could also be carried around as a "helpful" reminder about social distancing, for those who have been slow to adapt.

[Jake Schwartz]

(03-18-2020 12:42 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  I think this applies to creation of the 33S and not the 32SII, right? The 32SII definitely came from the Corvallis team as I recall stories of Joe Horn finding bugs in the 32SII Fractions feature with folks in Corvallis.

Eric Vogel from the Corvallis team visited the Philly PPC group in April of 1991 to present the then-new HP32SII and HP95LX machines to the group. He had visited the Chicago-area CHIP group a couple of weeks earlier and discussed the 32SII there as well; however it was a bit early for the 95LX, so they didn't see it at that meeting, if I recall correctly.

Jake

[rprosperi]

(03-18-2020 08:04 PM)Jake Schwartz Wrote:  

(03-18-2020 12:42 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  I think this applies to creation of the 33S and not the 32SII, right? The 32SII definitely came from the Corvallis team as I recall stories of Joe Horn finding bugs in the 32SII Fractions feature with folks in Corvallis.

Eric Vogel from the Corvallis team visited the Philly PPC group in April of 1991 to present the then-new HP32SII and HP95LX machines to the group. He had visited the Chicago-area CHIP group a couple of weeks earlier and discussed the 32SII there as well; however it was a bit early for the 95LX, so they didn't see it at that meeting, if I recall correctly.

Jake

Thanks Jake, I couldn't recall Eric's name earlier. I wanted to say Chris Bunson, but that was the Las Vegas meeting at the Winter '89 CES. Glad I held off...

[cyrille de brébisson]

Hello,

Sorry, yes, you are right, it's the 33s!!!!! not the 32SII!!!!!

Yes, is is a telescope... A 200f4.5 to be precise, much larger than DA74254's 3 inches guess...
I personally would not call it a Dobsonian as John Dobson's philosophy was of the "make it cheap, make it quick, make it work"...

Cyrille

[Paul Dale]

(03-18-2020 06:50 AM)cyrille de brébisson Wrote:  The other one, Calypso (I think HP X25 was the official name) was a PDA for teenagers...

This is the one I did the bootloader for...


Pauli

[Paul Dale]

The telescope is a work of art!


Pauli

[Orome]

(03-18-2020 06:50 AM)cyrille de brébisson Wrote:  

orome Wrote:Also curious about the physical design changes between the 38s/48s and the 39s/49s.

The change came at the Corvalis/Australia split time...
The Melbourne team did not have any of the mechanical files, so we had to redo it anyway...
At the same time, the focus for the calcs changed from engineers to more youth/education, and also lower cost...

A sad turn, IMV. The great engendering aesthetic that drove the design of HP calculators up to that point took a big hit then.