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Sylvain Cote · 04-30-2020, 12:59 PM

(04-30-2020 11:40 AM)Vintage63 Wrote: Cards are inserted from the right side lwith the 41C in front of you, correct?

Yes

(04-30-2020 12:24 PM)rprosperi Wrote: Definitely try new batteries. ... you definitely will be needing the extra batteries anyhow.

I always used Alkaline batteries when I use the card reader, rechargeable batteries may work a couple of times but they do not have enough energy to power the CR for long.
Having several set of Alkaline batteries is a must, I buy them in pack of 12, 24 or 48 depending on what I plan to do with the card reader.

Vintage63 · 04-30-2020, 01:01 PM

Erik, once you remove the top from the 'drive slot assembly', the one with the copper contacts, you don't need to remove the motor from its supports in order to replace the gummy wheel. It just drops down once you rremove the peg that holds it in place.

@ Bob - I'll look for new batteries in supermarkets and see what I find. Duracell N batteries are difficult to find around here.

**rprosperi** · (This post was last modified: 04-30-2020 10:55 PM by rprosperi.)

(04-30-2020 01:01 PM)Vintage63 Wrote: @ Bob - I'll look for new batteries in supermarkets and see what I find. Duracell N batteries are difficult to find around here.

I definitely recommend Energizer over Duracell batteries. I have had several battery leak incidents over the years using Duracell batteries, but only one ever with Energizers, and that one really was my fault (I put away a machine in a storage cabinet without realizing batteries were installed).

In US, Energizer N cells are cheap and fast from Amazon, not sure if things are the same in UK.

Also, when looking online, "N" cells are often listed as type E90 cells and adding that to a search will often yield better results.

Vintage63 · 05-01-2020, 08:43 AM

The Panasonics I have now are called LR1, just for completeness.
But I don't think they are the best for this job anyway.

Strange, I've used Duracell for years in the 41 and never a leak. And they stay there for years on end.

Dave Frederickson · 05-03-2020, 05:54 PM

(04-30-2020 12:59 PM)Sylvain Cote Wrote: I always used Alkaline batteries when I use the card reader, rechargeable batteries may work a couple of times but they do not have enough energy to power the CR for long.

I wonder if the newer 600-700 mAh LSD N-cells are any better?

https://www.amazon.com/Odec-Battery-Rech...ref=sr_1_2
https://www.amazon.com/EBL-Batteries-Rec...B07CXR88H6
https://www.amazon.com/ANVOW-Battery-Cha...ref=sr_1_2

Anybody have experience with these?

aurelio · (This post was last modified: 05-04-2020 07:59 AM by aurelio.)

I would like to know, please, if feeding the HP41 with the battery pack modifyed as I read from this link and the charger so connected could allow to use the card reader with the calculator.

mfleming · 05-05-2020, 02:16 AM

(05-03-2020 05:54 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote: https://www.amazon.com/Odec-Battery-Rech...ref=sr_1_2
https://www.amazon.com/EBL-Batteries-Rec...B07CXR88H6
https://www.amazon.com/ANVOW-Battery-Cha...ref=sr_1_2

Anybody have experience with these?

I've used both the Odec and EBL cells without a problem. I did cause one Odec to leak through over-current charging though, so use a charger that can be set to an appropriate current level. I tried a set of EBL cells this morning with a card reader. No problem with reading the cards, but the reader sounded more solid with Duracells, so rechargables may not last too long. I would do a battery duration test but my card reader was sounding like it's time to fiddle with the insides again, and I have no motivation to go through that nightmare again Smile

Nice to see a charger specifically for N cells is available in the third link! Using springs to bridge the gap between the bottom of a cell and the charger contact is a real mess.

**rprosperi** · 05-05-2020, 02:55 AM

(05-05-2020 02:16 AM)mfleming Wrote: Using springs to bridge the gap between the bottom of a cell and the charger contact is a real mess.

Mark - Get a set of these; they are cheap, reliable and work perfectly.

https://ogazent.com/store/index.php?subc...80528b01b3

Dave Frederickson · 05-05-2020, 04:39 AM

(05-05-2020 02:55 AM)rprosperi Wrote:
(05-05-2020 02:16 AM)mfleming Wrote: Using springs to bridge the gap between the bottom of a cell and the charger contact is a real mess.

Mark - Get a set of these; they are cheap, reliable and work perfectly.

https://ogazent.com/store/index.php?subc...80528b01b3

... and allow you to charge your N-cells in a real smart charger.

Regarding the N-AA adapters, seems they're out of stock.
https://ogazent.com/store/batteries-and-...pter-n-aa/
Just call/email them and ask to have some more made.

Speaking of smart chargers, the BC-700 has been "RETIRED"!
https://www.lacrossetechnology.com/bc700

Another favorite, the Powerex MH-C9000 WizardOne, has also been discontinued as a "new model is coming soon!"
https://mahaenergy.com/mh-c9000/

That leave's Amazon's Choice, the La Crosse BC-1000, big brother to the BC-700 and at a higher price.
https://www.amazon.com/Crosse-Technology...B004J6DLD4

**rprosperi** · 05-05-2020, 12:33 PM

(05-05-2020 04:39 AM)Dave Frederickson Wrote: Speaking of smart chargers, the BC-700 has been "RETIRED"!
https://www.lacrossetechnology.com/bc700

Yes, but it was replaced with a BC-700N, essentially an identical model, the only apparent difference being the the size of the jack for the included AC adapter. When I replaced my BC-700 last year, I ordered another one and received a BC-700N instead, so some sellers are even treating them as the same model.

https://www.lacrossetechnology.com/bc700...y-charger/

mfleming · 05-05-2020, 01:50 PM

(05-05-2020 02:55 AM)rprosperi Wrote:
(05-05-2020 02:16 AM)mfleming Wrote: Using springs to bridge the gap between the bottom of a cell and the charger contact is a real mess.

Mark - Get a set of these; they are cheap, reliable and work perfectly.

https://ogazent.com/store/index.php?subc...80528b01b3

I remember seeing these in the past and will follow up. I ended up with a Tenergy TN456 charger with adjustable contacts, programmable current per cell, and able to handle lithium as well as NiCd/NiMH rechargables. Not quite as many pprogrammable features as the BC-700, just the basic charge and test. The 700 was starting to collect some pretty bad reviews and the 1000 was a bit expensive. Tenergy seemed a safe brand name, and I haven't had any problems with the various Eneloop and EBL cells I have.

~Mark

Dave Frederickson · (This post was last modified: 05-05-2020 05:05 PM by Dave Frederickson.)

(05-05-2020 01:50 PM)mfleming Wrote: I ended up with a Tenergy TN456 charger

I use a Tenergy 1006 smart pack charger to charge my 82037 and 2225 battery packs. I modified a Topcat Power Pack to plug directly into the Tenergy charger using the included adapter cable. Works great! All my other packs have removable cells that get charged externally.

Regarding the ANVOW N-cells and charger on Amazon. Even though the page has "charger" throughout, you don't get the charger unless you click "charger with 2 count n batteries" and then the price goes up to $11.69. It's a cheap charger that can only charge two cells at a time.

Dave

Vintage63 · 05-12-2020, 02:27 PM

All, the new Duracell batteries have arrived. Put them in the calculator but the card reader motor doesn't move. I can CATALOG 2 the reader but inserting a card doesn't trigger anything.

I don't believe the ICs and PCBs are at fault, I wouldn't get a catalog 2 operation to work.

The motor by itself works as I tested it prior to starting this project.

I have noticed that the red and black cables that go to the motor are simply 'inserted' into 2 sockets located on the bottom PCB and not soldered.

Suggestions on what else I can try ?

Thanks
Marco

Dave Frederickson · 05-12-2020, 03:38 PM

(05-12-2020 02:27 PM)Vintage63 Wrote: All, the new Duracell batteries have arrived. Put them in the calculator but the card reader motor doesn't move. I can CATALOG 2 the reader but inserting a card doesn't trigger anything.

I don't believe the ICs and PCBs are at fault, I wouldn't get a catalog 2 operation to work.

The motor by itself works as I tested it prior to starting this project.

I have noticed that the red and black cables that go to the motor are simply 'inserted' into 2 sockets located on the bottom PCB and not soldered.

Suggestions on what else I can try ?

Thanks
Marco

The card reader microswitches may not be opening/closing properly or you may have lost a little white ball during some prior disassembly.

You could go through the troubleshooting procedure in the service manual. Note, the manual says a service module is required so you'll probably need either a 41CL or Clonix module to emulate the service module.

Dave

Vintage63 · 05-12-2020, 10:29 PM

Hi Dave, microswitches? Which ones ?
The white thing you refer to, looks like a cylinder with two studs sticking out of it either side, correct ? I have this and reassembled it.

Which switches do you mean ? Are they inside the card 'sliding' slot ?
There is a curved copper one, this is back in place.
There was another microscopic one kind of fixed in one side.

There are a couple of 'forks' under the PCB that has the 5 gold plated holes.

Anyway I'll strip it again tomorrow and see what happens.

Service manual ? Where do I find it ?
Thank you
Marco

Dave Frederickson · (This post was last modified: 05-12-2020 11:11 PM by Dave Frederickson.)

(05-12-2020 10:29 PM)Vintage63 Wrote: Service manual ? Where do I find it ?

It's on the MoHPC Document Set flash drive and the HP-41 website.

In the meantime you might try these docs.
https://www.hpmuseum.org/guest/hoskins/41crfix.pdf
https://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap...gi?read=57

AndiGer · 05-13-2020, 04:20 AM

When it comes to HP 82104A normally I go from the motor side to replace the drive wheel. This way I don't come in touch with the forks. The forks are a devil's toy ...

There is at least when more thread on the forks topic.
See here: https://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap...ead=165472
Look at the embedded pictures (they are still hosted - most of them)

If you trace back where the contacts go to you that the forks close you can measure they really close with a DMM when the contact PCB is assembled.

Good luck

Vintage63 · 05-13-2020, 01:31 PM

I fiddled around with the forks and the internal copper bits, the curvy one and the one close to the magnetic head.
I left a card in the system and closed it.
I attached it to the calculator and the system sprung to life.
I could not switch it off at all. The card would not move but the motor kept turning.
I used a screw driver to try and get more pression on the card nothing.
I pulled the card out and the reader stopped.
All I get now is a MALFUNCTION error on the display.
I used the abrasive card a few times, it doesn't change anything.
I switched to PRGM mode and tried to save the routine, inserting the card shows RDY 01 OF 1 the card scrolls but the result is always MALFUNCTION

The O-Rigs seem to be working as the card is pulled through

I recall reading about this issue but will have to browse my bookmarks in order to find the reason of this.

toml_12953 · 05-13-2020, 01:54 PM

(04-30-2020 10:54 PM)rprosperi Wrote:
(04-30-2020 01:01 PM)Vintage63 Wrote: @ Bob - I'll look for new batteries in supermarkets and see what I find. Duracell N batteries are difficult to find around here.

I definitely recommend Energizer over Duracell batteries.

I've had bad luck with Energizers. They last about 75% as long as the generic brands from Harbor Freight and Aldi's supermarket for my calculators (HP-50, various TIs) Dollar store alkalines last about the same amount of time as Energizers for me.

AndiGer · 05-13-2020, 03:24 PM

(05-13-2020 01:31 PM)Vintage63 Wrote: I fiddled around with the forks and the internal copper bits, the curvy one and the one close to the magnetic head.
I left a card in the system and closed it.
I attached it to the calculator and the system sprung to life.
I could not switch it off at all. The card would not move but the motor kept turning.
I used a screw driver to try and get more pression on the card nothing.
I pulled the card out and the reader stopped.
All I get now is a MALFUNCTION error on the display.
I used the abrasive card a few times, it doesn't change anything.
I switched to PRGM mode and tried to save the routine, inserting the card shows RDY 01 OF 1 the card scrolls but the result is always MALFUNCTION

The O-Rigs seem to be working as the card is pulled through

I recall reading about this issue but will have to browse my bookmarks in order to find the reason of this.

Maybe that's the other fork not closing (correctly). This is the head switch. It must close at a specific point - after the motor switch is enabled - when the card goes thru. You can test it the same way with the DMM at the correct test point on the top PCB.