What would you like to see in a future HP Prime II? (HP Prime², HP Prime 2X)

[Wes Loewer]

(05-03-2021 10:12 AM)jonmoore Wrote:  The HP Prime may look pretty in photographs, but its real-world hardware interaction performance has too many shortfalls.

As a long time hp user, my own opinions are no doubt biased. But my students who have no past experience with hp overwhelmingly love the Prime. Each year I offer the winner of our Math League contests a prize of a cas calculator. For the 3rd year in a row, the winner has asked for a Prime over an Nspire.

My calculus students come in mostly with ti-84+'s, but the dept has a few Nspires and Primes that they can use for the year if they want. This year only one asked for the Nspire and five asked for Primes. We had only four Primes, so one of those students used the Nspire. The Prime users love the touch screen with graphing and the speed. The two students that used Nspires have gone back to using their 84+'s.

I have not heard any of my students bring up the visibility issues that were mentioned. The only visual issue that I've heard about from a student is the flickering of the screen which was easily adjusted.

I love my 50g and it's still my go-to calculator for physics, but the Prime is the hands down winner for math (IMHO).

[jonmoore]

Not that I was comparing the Prime to the Nspire but I think the photo below shows what I mean ref the alpha text legibility. But blimey, do I hate that chunk of glass sitting in front of the Nspire LCD.

As for text legibility, I think the Nspire does a decent job (and that was the main discussion point of my last post ref the Prime). Quite obviously the Prime is a better CAS powerhouse, particularly now with the added benefit of Python.

[Wes Loewer]

(05-03-2021 05:28 PM)jonmoore Wrote:  I think the photo below shows what I mean ref the alpha text legibility.

I guess I never use my calculators at that angle. I always used them sitting flat on a desk where the trapezoidal keys are perfectly shaped, though I wish the print had even more contrast for the alpha characters. I know the G2's contrast improved significantly over the original version A model, but even more would be appreciated.

The additional of Python is very exciting and I understand that in France and perhaps other European countries this is a major selling point. In the American system, calculators are not generally used for teaching programming. I'd estimate that <1% of my students have ever written a program on their calculators on their own. Some are into programming, but they do that on their laptops.

[jonmoore]

I can only speak for education here in the UK, although anecdotally I understand things to be much the same in most European countries. The true value of Python on calculators is taken holistically across STEM knowledge domains (science, technology, engineering, and mathematics). It's the reason that I've been posting about the BBC micro:bit and its possibilities in tandem with the HP Prime.

For those of a mathematical persuasion, Python's value on a calculator (talking about typical student age groups here) is that students can extend the functionality of their calculator using a programming language that's already being taught in the rest of their curriculum. The barrier of having to learn a new scripting/programming language is removed.

Much as I tend to use XCAS's native scripting when exploring KhiCAS on the Nspire, I can see myself using Python on the Prime. It's also great that Bernard has provided many of the familiar functions from Numpy and SciPy on the Prime as this will make it easier to adapt desktop scripts. Those functions often duplicate existing XCAS functions, and under the hood, they will probably be aliases to those existing XCAS functions; but yet again, the real benefit is the removal of barriers for those looking to create bespoke solutions on their calculator.

[Eddie W. Shore]

Add to the wish list: Add the backslash (\), at symbol (@), and question mark (?) to the !, infinity, -> template box ([Shift] [ 9 ])

[t_angenbrandt]

The current hardware is quite capable and can be adapted with relatively small investments as follows:

(ordered from highest to lowest importance to me):
• fix the screen orientation
• connectivity (native WiFi built-in with copy/paste function to computer app / wireless connectivity to HP Con Kit): This requirement should be trivial to implement from a bill of materials/PCB point of view. ESP8266 or ESP32 chipsets are very easy to integrate and comparably low footprint size.
 • a file system with work documents (an extension of what the 20210505 update delivered for the home view to other aspects of the system (comparable to nspire), would suit well with the current python support)
 • double buffering for the screen to stop the flickering, and maybe more smooth scrolling. This is a software feature though.
 • USB C, battery charging circuit with improved charging speed and maybe a coulomb counter to more accurately show state of charge

[Dands]

Bumping this thread...hoping for something new in 2022.

[Eddie W. Shore]

Additions to the wish list:

Python: File system where we can load, edit, and run different scripts. Currently the app allows for only one script. If you want separate scripts, you have to copy the Python app.

Keyboard: better contrast for the ALPHA characters (brown or red instead orange against the light gray and white keys).

Ability for expand and collect to work on variables other than x.

For the note takers on calculators: Template to store favorite characters such as %, ?, the integral sign, Alpha, etc.

>Polar, >Rect, >HR, >HMS commands.

Customizable menu that stores your favorite commands. I might have to write a program on this and assign it to a key.

[ramon_ea1gth]

(01-21-2022 01:20 PM)Eddie W. Shore Wrote:  Additions to the wish list:
Customizable menu that stores your favorite commands. I might have to write a program on this and assign it to a key.

Maybe this little cute program can do the trick to have your custom menu:
https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-16144.html

[IHarwell]

The most glaring needs I've seen so far are:

- Vastly improved documentation (Match at least the detail found in the HP 35s manual for all features of the Prime.)
- Better error messages
- An equation library (independent of apps)
- Full micropython support (including IDE support in the program editor, not just the App)
- More complete set of constants
- Key-sequence optimization (pressing sto should put the calculator into alpha mode, etc.)
- CAS stack save and load
- Remove 10 item limit on App variables (F1, F2, etc)

[tgallo]

I would love to see a clamshell design like the 28 series.

[Luigi Vampa]

(01-22-2022 11:56 PM)tgallo Wrote:  I would love to see a clamshell design like the 28 series.

+1
That would be awesome! Though with a better mechanical design, please.
Unfortunately, I think clamshell designs aren't the most popular.

[celltx]

I'd like to see a better number formatting:

- in normal mode, I'm tired counting zeros in numbers like 0.000002. It would be great to have something like Norm1 in Casio calculators, where numbers smaller than 0.01 are displayed with exponent.
- Larger numbers could have an option to be displayed with exponent too: either 10,000 or 1e4, by user choice
- in scientific format, please remove trailing zeros in mantissa: Let 2.1e7 look like this, rather than a long 2.100000e7
- Add engineering symbols option, so that answer 2e-12 could be shown as 2p, or 2e6 as 2M

So far, HP number formatting is weaker than both TI's and Casio's and this leaves bad impression in everyday use. I'd guess, this gap is easy to close.

[jfelten]

Personally, here is what I would want:
-the ability to create custom GROBS, as just 10 sometimes isn't enough
-more drawing commands, like being able to change the hue of an image
-a faster, more optimized 3d renderer, like this one
-if that's not possible, then it would at least be nice to have a 3d graphics library for Python
-the Python interpreter is really unstable. so many random bugs and crashes is kinda frustrating...
-hardware-wise, this calc is spot-on. my only complaint is the viewing angle kinda sucks, but i've gotten used to getting around that.

[Stefan Falk]

Hello everybody!

From a pure hobbyist standpoint, and honestly being just overwhelmed about what power lives in this fine device, I would be thankful for:

1. *Simple* Keyboard-based programming with only the built-in keyboard and no PC around! This is doable on my 41C, and I found what Microsoft Research did with the first versions of TouchDevelop a *huge* improvement! Every bit of brainstorming to this field would be highly appreciated. So: Let us do simple programming with *much* less keystrokes than now using HPPL - directly on the device, while sitting in the train!

2. While I understand that the CAS and Home separation is due to using the open source CAS software, I guess most of us feel that this is somewhat unnatural. Having a merged experience would be very fine and save us from things like getting a CAS function graphed and having to manually replace x with X, or having to store the function into a variable before plotting. A well-integrated world of both would highly polish the product imho.

3. Screen resolution doubled in each dimension. The Screen is fine, but finer resolution would be even finer.

4. Better contrast on the key colors. Use the Prime in evening light in the living room and you know what I mean. ;-)

5. RPN as a more prominent feature. Hard to do with CAS, I know, but just wanted to mention it. As just a calculator, nothing beats RPN.

6. I/O. Lets have the Prime control experiments and machines, take measurements from sensors, record them, plot them, and analyze them up to matching to functions and having full error propagation calculation, and easily transfer the results to the PC to write a document about the experiment. The new USB and I²C features look very promising, and I still have to try them.

Best Regards,
Stefan

[OlidaBel]

(01-26-2022 02:05 PM)Stefan Falk Wrote:  From a pure hobbyist standpoint, and honestly being just overwhelmed about what power lives in this fine device, I would be thankful for:

1. *Simple* Keyboard-based programming with only the built-in keyboard and no PC around! This is doable on my 41C, and I found what Microsoft Research did with the first versions of TouchDevelop a *huge* improvement! Every bit of brainstorming to this field would be highly appreciated. So: Let us do simple programming with *much* less keystrokes than now using HPPL - directly on the device, while sitting in the train!

2. While I understand that the CAS and Home separation is due to using the open source CAS software, I guess most of us feel that this is somewhat unnatural. Having a merged experience would be very fine and save us from things like getting a CAS function graphed and having to manually replace x with X, or having to store the function into a variable before plotting. A well-integrated world of both would highly polish the product imho.

4. Better contrast on the key colors. Use the Prime in evening light in the living room and you know what I mean. ;-)

5. RPN as a more prominent feature. Hard to do with CAS, I know, but just wanted to mention it. As just a calculator, nothing beats RPN.

thanks Stefan, you summarized it very well!

I don't use the Prime for fun programming as I do with other RPN calculators I have here. It's fantastic for graphing problems. Programming it is a pain for my eyes, my fingers and my brain ;-)

[lschroeder1947]

(05-03-2021 05:28 PM)jonmoore Wrote:  Not that I was comparing the Prime to the Nspire but I think the photo below shows what I mean ref the alpha text legibility. But blimey, do I hate that chunk of glass sitting in front of the Nspire LCD.

... Quite obviously the Prime is a better CAS powerhouse, particularly now with the added benefit of Python.

I want the HP Prime free emulators to go viral for apple / android phones, apple iPads / android tablets, and chromebooks / laptops. Free emulators going viral would have a big effect on Pro and physical calculators sales as well. A win for HP to help with development and support of the HP Prime.

What is great about HP Prime is all of its forms work the same and the free / lite versions are super powerful. I want all forms to stay the same, not change only correct errors and add functionality. I think separate Home and CAS views are a huge benefit for viral. Think big middle school, elementary school market.

Covid-19 and virtual learning are having a devasting effect on students' mastery of math fundamentals. YouTube on your TV and early Twentieth Century Arithmetic book to the rescue.

With the YouTube app on your TV or if necessary, a separate connected box or stick with YouTube set down with your middle school or higher elementary grade child, grandchild, or neighbor's kid to help them learn arithmetic by the HP Prime emulator on their phone or tablet.

Home view's addition of commas to History, fractions in History with the [a b/c] key, parenthesis use, lists for multiple calculations, and calculator's color touch screen on phones and tablets.

YouTube videos for HP Prime Guide Whole Numbers, Whole Numbers Part II, Whole Numbers Part III.

Click read more on first pinned comment to find all the related resources you and the child needs. Pinned comment links for Free OneNote notebook with use of HP Prime for Whole Numbers, Fractions, Decimals, Measurements, Percentage, and Ratio Proportions, additional screen explanations at Free Prime Academy | Learning Center Hp-Prime drop-down Arithmetic Fundamentals fly-out coming for all notebook HP Prime screenshots. Link to Amazon paperback with cross-reference from all sections of notebook with 100's of related exercises and answers for each page to enable child to practice and master arithmetic skill and HP Prime interface for Arithmetic. Book for less than cost of a Mac's breakfast sandwich meal.

[Guenter Schink]

(01-21-2022 01:20 PM)Eddie W. Shore Wrote:  Python: File system where we can load, edit, and run different scripts. Currently the app allows for only one script. If you want separate scripts, you have to copy the Python app.

Eddie you may be interested in my little workaround.

Günter

[robve]

Lua 5.3

Perhaps it is a long shot to ask for Lua, but Lua is small yet versatile and would make an excellent addition to HP Prime.

(The Ti-Nspire supports Lua as a scripting language with a script editor to create interactive applications and to script simulations.)

- Rob

[KlaasKuperus]

I love all your suggestions and ideas! We are always looking into making our products better and I will certainly add these points to the list. I cannot promise anything, but there's a lot I would love to see in real life!