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WARNING! Fake HP-41 Flex-PCBs at eBay.
10-16-2020, 08:21 AM
Post: #1
WARNING! Fake HP-41 Flex-PCBs at eBay.
Hi all,

I've found this and this at eBay not only selling fake copies of my original design but also claiming that "This board was independently developed by an german engineer for the subsequent replacement of the battery contacts." (sic)

The seller (leus_65) from Schenefeld, Germany seems to have scanned my original design and decided to sell it as his own creation. I cannot image how desperate must someone be to sell his honesty for a few Euros; but that's none of my bussines.

Obviously, anyone is free to buy anything from whomever; just want to clarify that this Flex-PCBs are not made by me.

In fact, I no longer sell this design since a couple of months when I introduced a new and improved Flex-PCB for the HP-41: This one.

If you have doubts about the origin of the replacement Flex-PCB you've purchased or found inside a repaired HP-41 just contact me with a picture of it and I'd gladly corfirm if it's genuine or fake.

Best wishes.

Diego.

"Do not suppose, check it twice."
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10-16-2020, 10:49 AM (This post was last modified: 10-16-2020 11:11 AM by Martin Hepperle.)
Post: #2
RE: WARNING! Fake HP-41 Flex-PCBs at eBay.
Diego,

I have also seen these on German E-Bay and understand that this is disappointing.
I was not very happy with his claim that installation instructions available on the were plain wrong - I don't understand why he has to add this sort of comments.

But I would not necessarily call these "fakes" which implies "no function".
I have not seen these copies in natura nor do I have any affiliation with the seller, so I cannot comment on them. Whether these are really copies - I don't know.

But I see that you have now added pre-punched "dotted lines" to your design which is a great enhancement!
It took me quite a while to punch these hole patterns into your older PCB design I bought quite some time ago and I think this improvement should make it much simpler to bend the flexprint into its proper shape.

At least we in this forum probably have been very satisfied with your design (not only the flexprints) and appreciate very much your efforts with respect to the HP-41. I hope you are still motivated and enjoy developing new and fascinating accessories in the future!
I love my NoV-64.

Martin
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10-16-2020, 11:16 AM (This post was last modified: 10-16-2020 12:54 PM by Diego Diaz.)
Post: #3
RE: WARNING! Fake HP-41 Flex-PCBs at eBay.
Hi Martin,

And thanks for your kind words on my designs.

I have nonetheless to disagree on one detail.

Quote:
" But I would not necessarily call these "fakes" which implies "no function"."

As far as I know most any fake Rolex will still work and quite likely offer the *correct* time. "Fake", IMHO, means "Not genuine", "a copy"; and therefore of dubious quality regardless if it works or not.

Any person involved in PCB design could certify that these boards are copies just by looking at the pictures on eBay, and comparing them with the ones in my web site.

   

BTW, anyone with a flat scanner and a Gerber files extraction SW can copy any PCB board nowadays. Not a big deal.

Oh, and thanks also for appreciating the improvements on the new Flex-PCB design, not only the dotted lines are helpful, also the wider contact area allows more tolerance when it comes to the board positioning. :-)

Best regards from the Canary Islands.

Diego.

"Do not suppose, check it twice."
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10-16-2020, 02:37 PM
Post: #4
RE: WARNING! Fake HP-41 Flex-PCBs at eBay.
Hummm... "Payment: Direct transfer of money." Does anyone really want to give this guy their bank account number?

Who decides?
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10-16-2020, 04:48 PM
Post: #5
RE: WARNING! Fake HP-41 Flex-PCBs at eBay.
(10-16-2020 02:37 PM)mfleming Wrote:  Hummm... "Payment: Direct transfer of money." Does anyone really want to give this guy their bank account number?

Why not? He'll make a copy of the information and claim it's his account!

Tom L
If you buy a drink for someone in order to congratulate them,
is it a Mazel Tov cocktail?
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10-17-2020, 06:22 AM
Post: #6
RE: WARNING! Fake HP-41 Flex-PCBs at eBay.
(10-16-2020 02:37 PM)mfleming Wrote:  Hummm... "Payment: Direct transfer of money." Does anyone really want to give this guy their bank account number?

No comments about genuine or not..

The way the German Direct Deposit system work on German eBay is that eBay send his account-number to you and you send you money to that account. The payment is secured through a PIN which you get from your bank as you transfer. Anyone with your Account number need that pin - which is different for each transfer - or there is no transmission of anything.
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10-17-2020, 01:39 PM
Post: #7
RE: WARNING! Fake HP-41 Flex-PCBs at eBay.
Hello!

(10-17-2020 06:22 AM)KimH Wrote:  The way the German Direct Deposit system work on German eBay is that eBay send his account-number to you and you send you money to that account. The payment is secured through a PIN which you get from your bank as you transfer. Anyone with your Account number need that pin - which is different for each transfer - or there is no transmission of anything.

The only thing he could try after having obtained your name and account number through your payment is to retrieve money from your account through "direct debit" (Lastschrift). But that would require a faked "SEPA mandate" and therefore consist of more than one criminal offenses. Not very likely in this case, after all the seller would be fishing for account numbers within a very small community.

And BTW: Wasn't the real original flexboard designed and made by HP in 1979? So every replacement part made by third parties after that is a copy, isn't it? In this case here maybe a copy of a copy, but that has to be proven yet.

Regards
Max
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10-17-2020, 01:46 PM
Post: #8
RE: WARNING! Fake HP-41 Flex-PCBs at eBay.
Hi, KimH

Thanks for the tip.

Anyway, from your description, seller do not get to see buyer's bank account.
Just in case some bad things happen, it is a good idea to setup email alert from the bank.

However, paying via bank transfer loses eBay Money Back Guarantee.
It is possible seller is counting on this ...

Quote:Not covered
Transactions paid with any offline payment method (examples: cash, bank to bank transfer, money orders, escrow services)
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10-17-2020, 01:58 PM
Post: #9
RE: WARNING! Fake HP-41 Flex-PCBs at eBay.
Hello!

(10-17-2020 01:46 PM)Albert Chan Wrote:  Anyway, from your description, seller do not get to see buyer's bank account.

Yes, he does. The name and account number of anyone transferring money to your account can be seen on the account statement (Kontoauszug).


(10-17-2020 01:46 PM)Albert Chan Wrote:  However, paying via bank transfer loses eBay Money Back Guarantee.
It is possible seller is counting on this ...

Maybe. But would someone really risk negative feedback over a 20 Euro item? This thing may or my not be a copy of Diego Diaz' part, but there is (almost) certainly no fraudulent intention visible to me.

Regards
Max
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10-17-2020, 03:16 PM
Post: #10
RE: WARNING! Fake HP-41 Flex-PCBs at eBay.
Also he mentions that it's old stock. Probably made a small batch some years ago (because producing 10 is not much more expensive than 1) and now selling what he has left. And he is so honest to say it's his own work and not selling as your product.
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10-17-2020, 03:16 PM (This post was last modified: 10-17-2020 03:20 PM by Diego Diaz.)
Post: #11
RE: WARNING! Fake HP-41 Flex-PCBs at eBay.
Hi again,

Seems that some points have not been clear enough about my post.

1- I have never claimed to sell HP parts. Or that my design is better than the original part.

2- The part designed by HP in 1979 is No Longer Available since many years ago.

3- I designed a *replacement* from scratch to replace those which have been damaged by battery leakage.

4- My design is clearly different (though functional equivalent) to the HP original part, as can be seen in the picture below.

   

5- The seller claims that he/she has designed the replacement he/she is selling. That is a plain false statement. As anyone, even with no PCB design experience, can appreciate in the pictures on my post above.

6- I'll repeat: Anyone can buy anything from whomever he/she wants.

7- I just warned the community that someone is selling copies of my desing claiming that it's his/her design.

8- Anyone is also free to have doubts about my honesty.

9- I encourage anyone with such doubts to never buy anything from me, or contact me by any means.

10- Since I know for sure this seller is dishonest in his/her claims, I will, consequently, never buy or contact him/her in any way.

This is my last post on this subject and hope to have been clear enough this time.

Regards.

Diego Díaz.

"Do not suppose, check it twice."
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10-17-2020, 04:43 PM
Post: #12
RE: WARNING! Fake HP-41 Flex-PCBs at eBay.
(10-17-2020 03:16 PM)SammysHP Wrote:  And he is so honest to say it's his own work and not selling as your product.

Because eBay sellers never tell lies. ROTFL.
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10-17-2020, 04:59 PM (This post was last modified: 10-17-2020 05:00 PM by SammysHP.)
Post: #13
RE: WARNING! Fake HP-41 Flex-PCBs at eBay.
(10-17-2020 04:43 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  
(10-17-2020 03:16 PM)SammysHP Wrote:  And he is so honest to say it's his own work and not selling as your product.

Because eBay sellers never tell lies. ROTFL.

So you want to say that it would have been better if he wrote "Flex-PCB designed by Diego Diaz" so that people think they get the same product?

Something like "my own version based on a design by Diego Diaz" would be better, of course.

@Diego
I'm sure you've contacted him and asked him to reword his description?
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10-17-2020, 05:10 PM (This post was last modified: 10-17-2020 05:11 PM by Dave Frederickson.)
Post: #14
RE: WARNING! Fake HP-41 Flex-PCBs at eBay.
(10-17-2020 04:59 PM)SammysHP Wrote:  
(10-17-2020 04:43 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  Because eBay sellers never tell lies. ROTFL.

So you want to say that it would have been better if he wrote "Flex-PCB designed by Diego Diaz" so that people think they get the same product?

Something like "my own version based on a design by Diego Diaz" would be better, of course.

I don't think ripping off other people's designs and calling it your own is right in any case.
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10-17-2020, 05:39 PM
Post: #15
RE: WARNING! Fake HP-41 Flex-PCBs at eBay.
Voting with my wallet - just ordered your item! Thank you Diego!
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10-17-2020, 05:41 PM
Post: #16
RE: WARNING! Fake HP-41 Flex-PCBs at eBay.
Hello!

(10-17-2020 05:10 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  I don't think ripping off other people's designs and calling it your own is right in any case.

The eBay seller in question doesn't say that it is his design. He only says that it was developed by a "german engineer" (are we not all german engineers?). Maybe this is what whoever he bought those PCBs from told him.

After carefully looking at all the photos on eBay and those posted by Diego Diaz (and no
Quote: 8- Anyone is also free to have doubts about my honesty.
I don't think this is about your honesty at all!) I concur that the "german engineer" used Diegos PCB instead of the original HP design to base his product on. But still, we don't know if the seller is even aware of that.

Regards
Max

NB: That thing gets really strange when one looks at the feedback of the German seller: One of the buyers of these PCBs complains that contrary to what is staded on eBay they were not shipped from Germany but from Spain instead. Very, very weird....
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