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HP 41c STAT 1 module version 1A
09-06-2021, 10:15 AM
Post: #1
HP 41c STAT 1 module version 1A
I have a STAT 1 module that is version 1A but can't find any reference to such a version being released.

- Serial number starts with 19
- Catalog has one more function than my 1B module (*c)
- Catalog works and a few functions I tested appear to run but some hang at some point
- Service Module says module is bad but does it look for released versions or does it actually check something (eg checksum)?

Anyone know anything about this version and can advise?

Thanks, dmh
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09-06-2021, 12:44 PM
Post: #2
RE: HP 41c STAT 1 module version 1A
From there "HPMUSEUM/data/cd07/sw/41stat.pdf"
I see the "*c". Perhaps it is what you search,
I recommend you buy the CD07.


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HP71 & Multimod, HP41CV/CX & Nov64d, PILBOX, HP-IL-PRINTER 82162A, RS232 HP-IL interface, Debian11 64bits-PC w/ pyILPER, V41R9F & EMU71
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09-06-2021, 12:50 PM
Post: #3
RE: HP 41c STAT 1 module version 1A
Thanks.

I found the manual and it has "*c" listed (as per your screenshot) but it's definitely not in the 1B version of the module I have so I assumed the manual wasn't updated before the module release (and that the module was).

(09-06-2021 12:44 PM)floppy Wrote:  From there "HPMUSEUM/data/cd07/sw/41stat.pdf"
I see the "*c". Perhaps it is what you search,
I recommend you buy the CD07.
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09-13-2021, 10:02 AM
Post: #4
RE: HP 41c STAT 1 module version 1A
Seems no one knows anything about the 1A version of this module.

Next question then, how can I download the ROM to compare it to the generally available 1B version?
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09-13-2021, 12:04 PM
Post: #5
RE: HP 41c STAT 1 module version 1A
(09-13-2021 10:02 AM)dmh Wrote:  Next question then, how can I download the ROM to compare it to the generally available 1B version?
Monte's 41CL update zip file contains all the HP-41 ROMs in it → HERE (210906)
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09-13-2021, 12:10 PM
Post: #6
RE: HP 41c STAT 1 module version 1A
Thanks but I already checked there and there is no STAT 1 version 1A. I cannot find any reference to it anywhere.

(09-13-2021 12:04 PM)Sylvain Cote Wrote:  
(09-13-2021 10:02 AM)dmh Wrote:  Next question then, how can I download the ROM to compare it to the generally available 1B version?
Monte's 41CL update zip file contains all the HP-41 ROMs in it → HERE (210906)
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09-13-2021, 02:28 PM
Post: #7
RE: HP 41c STAT 1 module version 1A
(09-13-2021 10:02 AM)dmh Wrote:  Seems no one knows anything about the 1A version of this module.

Next question then, how can I download the ROM to compare it to the generally available 1B version?

This could be an interesting find. Even the Swiss HP-collection does not mention STAT-1A. But the standard 1B does seem to have a *C label though (according to the manual).

For downloading the ROM, what is your setup? Do you have access to a 41CL, HEPAX, Clonix/NoVRAM or MLDL2000, or are you near someone who has this?

Regards, Meindert
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09-13-2021, 02:31 PM (This post was last modified: 09-13-2021 02:33 PM by Sylvain Cote.)
Post: #8
RE: HP 41c STAT 1 module version 1A
(09-13-2021 12:10 PM)dmh Wrote:  Thanks but I already checked there and there is no STAT 1 version 1A. I cannot find any reference to it anywhere.
Sorry, I did not read correctly your question, well to create a ROM file from your physical ROM you need one of the following setup.
  • 41CL with the RS232 port + 41CL RS232 cable + RS232-to-USB converter + clupdate application
  • 41CL + HP-IL module + PIL-Box + one of the HP-IL peripheral emulator
  • Any 41 + NoV-64/64d module + USB pic programmer + ClonixConfig application
  • Any 41 + one of the RAM/MLDL box unit + IL-to-RS232 (ex.: 82164A) + PC application that received bytes and save it to a file
  • there are other possible setup as well
  • ... or send the module to someone near you who have one of the above setup and can do it for you.
Sylvain

Edit: Meindert beat me on this one Wink
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09-13-2021, 02:36 PM (This post was last modified: 09-13-2021 02:44 PM by dmh.)
Post: #9
RE: HP 41c STAT 1 module version 1A
I noticed the manual included the '*c' command but my 1B modules doesn't include this command so I assumed the manual wasn't updated when the released 1B module was.

I have 41c/cv, IL module, PIL Box and NoV-64d so what's the easiest way to extract the ROM?

(09-13-2021 02:28 PM)MeindertKuipers Wrote:  
(09-13-2021 10:02 AM)dmh Wrote:  Seems no one knows anything about the 1A version of this module.

Next question then, how can I download the ROM to compare it to the generally available 1B version?

This could be an interesting find. Even the Swiss HP-collection does not mention STAT-1A. But the standard 1B does seem to have a *C label though (according to the manual).

For downloading the ROM, what is your setup? Do you have access to a 41CL, HEPAX, Clonix/NoVRAM or MLDL2000, or are you near someone who has this?
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09-13-2021, 02:59 PM
Post: #10
RE: HP 41c STAT 1 module version 1A
(09-13-2021 02:36 PM)dmh Wrote:  I have 41c/cv, IL module, PIL Box and NoV-64d so what's the easiest way to extract the ROM?
I am currently working, I have not done this for awhile, I will post the steps here tonight (GMT-4) after I have a successful transfer.
Just checking, do you have the USB PIC programmer for your NoV-64d ?
Sylvain
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09-13-2021, 02:59 PM
Post: #11
RE: HP 41c STAT 1 module version 1A
I checked my ROMs and also don't have a STAT 1A, sorry.

"*a" and "*b" in the 1B ROM appear to be housekeeping routines (setting flags and display format), apparently given global labels as they are called by multiple programs. Insert the 1A ROM and look at the code to see what "*c" does, it may be a hint as to what has changed. Most likely it follows the "*b" code in the same global program at the end of the Catalog.

Have you looked through the code of the various application programs in the 1a ROM to see if "*c" is actually called? It's possible it was included initially but eventually never called, even in the 1A ROM, so then removed when updated to 1B. Since "*a" and "*b" are at the end of the catalog in ROM 1B, dropping "*c" does not affect the XROM ID for the balance of the functions.

--Bob Prosperi
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09-13-2021, 03:13 PM
Post: #12
RE: HP 41c STAT 1 module version 1A
Thanks!

Yes, I have the USB PIC programmer.

Can I use HEPAX WRTROM to save the ROM via PIL Box?

(09-13-2021 02:59 PM)Sylvain Cote Wrote:  
(09-13-2021 02:36 PM)dmh Wrote:  I have 41c/cv, IL module, PIL Box and NoV-64d so what's the easiest way to extract the ROM?
I am currently working, I have not done this for awhile, I will post the steps here tonight (GMT-4) after I have a successful transfer.
Just checking, do you have the USB PIC programmer for your NoV-64d ?
Sylvain
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09-13-2021, 03:18 PM (This post was last modified: 09-13-2021 06:49 PM by MeindertKuipers.)
Post: #13
RE: HP 41c STAT 1 module version 1A
(09-13-2021 02:31 PM)Sylvain Cote Wrote:  
(09-13-2021 12:10 PM)dmh Wrote:  Thanks but I already checked there and there is no STAT 1 version 1A. I cannot find any reference to it anywhere.
Sorry, I did not read correctly your question, well to create a ROM file from your physical ROM you need one of the following setup.
  • 41CL with the RS232 port + 41CL RS232 cable + RS232-to-USB converter + clupdate application
  • 41CL + HP-IL module + PIL-Box + one of the HP-IL peripheral emulator
  • Any 41 + NoV-64/64d module + USB pic programmer + ClonixConfig application
  • Any 41 + one of the RAM/MLDL box unit + IL-to-RS232 (ex.: 82164A) + PC application that received bytes and save it to a file
  • there are other possible setup as well
  • ... or send the module to someone near you who have one of the above setup and can do it for you.
Sylvain

Edit: Meindert beat me on this one Wink

You're welcome Sylvain Smile

You are well equipped to extract the ROM. I would need to work out the details, best approach is to use HEPAX (in your NoV64d) and the WRTROM command to store the STAT-1A to a file in mass storage (emulated on your PC using HP-IL and PILbox). I must admit that I have not tried this myself (yet).

Regards, Meindert
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09-13-2021, 03:29 PM
Post: #14
RE: HP 41c STAT 1 module version 1A
I had a quick look and only saw that "*a" calls "*c" in the 1A ROM. If nothing else called it then I guess the code was placed in "*a" and "*c" was deleted in 1B ROM.

(09-13-2021 02:59 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  I checked my ROMs and also don't have a STAT 1A, sorry.

"*a" and "*b" in the 1B ROM appear to be housekeeping routines (setting flags and display format), apparently given global labels as they are called by multiple programs. Insert the 1A ROM and look at the code to see what "*c" does, it may be a hint as to what has changed. Most likely it follows the "*b" code in the same global program at the end of the Catalog.

Have you looked through the code of the various application programs in the 1a ROM to see if "*c" is actually called? It's possible it was included initially but eventually never called, even in the 1A ROM, so then removed when updated to 1B. Since "*a" and "*b" are at the end of the catalog in ROM 1B, dropping "*c" does not affect the XROM ID for the balance of the functions.
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09-13-2021, 05:05 PM (This post was last modified: 09-13-2021 06:12 PM by Sylvain Cote.)
Post: #15
RE: HP 41c STAT 1 module version 1A
I had 15 minutes of free time.

Assuming ...
  • NoV-64d has HEPAX emulation activated and that no ROM has been loaded in Flash, except for the HEPAX ROM of course
  • HP-IL module inserted into slot 4
  • STAT module inserted into slot 3
  • NoV-64d inserted into slot 1
  • PIL-Box is plugged
  • IL peripheral emulator is running (pyILPer or ILPer)
  • One virtual 82161A tape drive configured
  • One 128KB virtual tape formatted (my virtual tape is named: mytape.dat)
  • LIF Utilities is installed
Page used should be as follow:
  • 6 = PRINTER ROM
  • 7 = HP-IL ROM
  • 8 = HEPAX RAM
  • 9 = HEPAX RAM
  • 10 = HEPAX RAM
  • 11 = HEPAX RAM
  • 12 = STAT ROM
  • 5, 13, 14 or 15 = HEPAX ROM (remapped dynamically)
Backup ROM to tape
Code:
"STAT1A"      ; filename on tape
12            ; ROM page
WRTROM        ; copy ROM to file

Extract ROM from LIF Tape
Code:
lifget -r mytape.dat STAT1A stat1a.hx       ; extract HEPAX ROM file from LIF tape and remove LIF file header
hx41rom  <stat1a.hx >stat1a.rom             ; convert HEPAX ROM format into standard ROM format
rom41cat <stat1a.rom                        ; show ROM catalog

Sylvain

edit: minor revision in the "Assuming part"
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09-14-2021, 12:58 AM (This post was last modified: 09-14-2021 01:00 AM by Diego Diaz.)
Post: #16
RE: HP 41c STAT 1 module version 1A
Hi all,

Since you've said that the Service module shows the "BAD ROM" message and some functions don't work as expected. My advice would be to first check if the ROM revision of the module is "1A" or "1B" as it may be that the ROM has been damaged and shows "1A". (Although it is not frequent.)

The Service module does in fact calculate the checksum and compares it with the value at address xFFF.

Run HEXEDIT with just NoV-64d (HEPAX) into port 1 and your "STAT-1A" into port 3.

Enter ADR:CFFB, you'll see either "001" ("A") or "002" ("B")

SST should show "031" ("1")

Also if you SST until address CFFF you'll see the checksum ("2F1") in the case of the "1B" version.

It has also been confirmed that the function "*c" is called from "*a". Since this is a FOCAL module you can GOTO ALPHA *c and list this program to see if it has been included in the "*a" version of the "1B" counterpart.

Keep us posted!

Cheers.

Diego.

"Do not suppose, check it twice."
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09-14-2021, 01:40 PM (This post was last modified: 09-14-2021 02:33 PM by dmh.)
Post: #17
RE: HP 41c STAT 1 module version 1A
Ok, I followed Diego's instructions below with the following results with the STAT 1A module.

CFFB 001
CFFC 031
CFFF 38C

I compared the code in the 1A and 1B module and there is no *c in the 1B module and the 1A code for *c is included in *a.

So any other reasons for the Service Module giving BAD ROM? Reading the manual it sounded like the version list was regularly updated so I'm wondering whether it gives an error as 1A is deprecated?

Once I save the ROM, what utility will decode them so I can look at them side by side and compare the FOCAL code?

(09-14-2021 12:58 AM)Diego Diaz Wrote:  Hi all,

Since you've said that the Service module shows the "BAD ROM" message and some functions don't work as expected. My advice would be to first check if the ROM revision of the module is "1A" or "1B" as it may be that the ROM has been damaged and shows "1A". (Although it is not frequent.)

The Service module does in fact calculate the checksum and compares it with the value at address xFFF.

Run HEXEDIT with just NoV-64d (HEPAX) into port 1 and your "STAT-1A" into port 3.

Enter ADR:CFFB, you'll see either "001" ("A") or "002" ("B")

SST should show "031" ("1")

Also if you SST until address CFFF you'll see the checksum ("2F1") in the case of the "1B" version.

It has also been confirmed that the function "*c" is called from "*a". Since this is a FOCAL module you can GOTO ALPHA *c and list this program to see if it has been included in the "*a" version of the "1B" counterpart.

Keep us posted!

Cheers.

Diego.
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09-14-2021, 01:45 PM
Post: #18
RE: HP 41c STAT 1 module version 1A
Just wondering what serial number / year your STAT ROMs are? Is my 1A 19 serial number the earliest STAT ROM? When was the STAT ROM released?

(09-13-2021 02:59 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  I checked my ROMs and also don't have a STAT 1A, sorry.

"*a" and "*b" in the 1B ROM appear to be housekeeping routines (setting flags and display format), apparently given global labels as they are called by multiple programs. Insert the 1A ROM and look at the code to see what "*c" does, it may be a hint as to what has changed. Most likely it follows the "*b" code in the same global program at the end of the Catalog.

Have you looked through the code of the various application programs in the 1a ROM to see if "*c" is actually called? It's possible it was included initially but eventually never called, even in the 1A ROM, so then removed when updated to 1B. Since "*a" and "*b" are at the end of the catalog in ROM 1B, dropping "*c" does not affect the XROM ID for the balance of the functions.
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09-14-2021, 02:14 PM
Post: #19
RE: HP 41c STAT 1 module version 1A
(09-14-2021 01:45 PM)dmh Wrote:  When was the STAT ROM released?

On page 15 of the PPC Journal - V6N4 July 1979 where the HP-41C was announced, there is a listing of the catalogs from different modules, including STAT 1A with *c at the end of the function catalog.
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09-14-2021, 02:32 PM
Post: #20
RE: HP 41c STAT 1 module version 1A
Thanks, nice find :-)

I had a look at the service manual again and note that it says:

"ALL REVISIONS WHICH WERE OR ARE CURRENTLY SOLD, ARE LISTED"

The service manual then only lists STAT 1 1B.

Maybe 1A was never actually sold and the catalog you mention was an internal / prerelease version?

(09-14-2021 02:14 PM)Didier Lachieze Wrote:  
(09-14-2021 01:45 PM)dmh Wrote:  When was the STAT ROM released?

On page 15 of the PPC Journal - V6N4 July 1979 where the HP-41C was announced, there is a listing of the catalogs from different modules, including STAT 1A with *c at the end of the function catalog.
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