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Christoph Giesselink · 09-21-2021, 09:45 PM

For decades I put my emulator annoucement in the Genaral Forum, but now a Moderator means, that's the wrong place, and moved "Update of Emu42 to v1.26" to the "Nor quite HP Calculators - but related". When Emu42 don't discuss HP calculators, what else?

Even more, I'm mot allowed to delete my posting "Update of Emu42 to v1.26" and more.

polbit · 09-21-2021, 10:47 PM

(09-21-2021 09:45 PM)Christoph Giesselink Wrote: For decades I put my emulator annoucement in the Genaral Forum, but now a Moderator means, that's the wrong place, and moved "Update of Emu42 to v1.26" to the "Nor quite HP Calculators - but related". When Emu42 don't discuss HP calculators, what else?

Even more, I'm mot allowed to delete my posting "Update of Emu42 to v1.26" and more.

Speaking as a big fan and a heavy user of your Emu71, may I ask what is the big deal with your post being moved to the sub-forum specifically dedicated to emulators? I would expect most users to look at the Related forum to see any emulator news, as the main HP forum is dedicated to HP hardware.

Just my 2 cents.

Thomas Okken · 09-21-2021, 11:05 PM

(09-21-2021 09:45 PM)Christoph Giesselink Wrote: For decades I put my emulator annoucement in the Genaral Forum, but now a Moderator means, that's the wrong place, and moved "Update of Emu42 to v1.26" to the "Nor quite HP Calculators - but related". When Emu42 don't discuss HP calculators, what else?

Even more, I'm mot allowed to delete my posting "Update of Emu42 to v1.26" and more.

You can't have posted on the General Forum for decades, since this forum has only existed since late 2013. The previous forum didn't have sub-forums, those have only existed since the MoHPC forum switched to MyBB... And the description of the "Not quite HP Calculators - but related" sub-forum specifically states "This is place to discuss emulators, simulators, third party firmware like WP34s, and non-HP RPN calculators." (Emphasis mine.) Is that really a problem?

**Gene** · 09-22-2021, 12:03 AM

Hopefully it is not a big deal. Wasn't intended to be.

I move things around all the time trying to keep order. Some are flagged for me to look at (thank you all!) and some I move myself.

I didn't think it was a big enough deal to even notify you it was being moved.

ijabbott · 09-22-2021, 07:27 AM

Doing a quick search on Christoph's threads, I guess most of them should be moved to the "Not quite" forum for consistency.

J-F Garnier · (This post was last modified: 09-22-2021 09:27 AM by J-F Garnier.)

[various reactions]
Yes, there is nothing bad to be in the the "Not quite HP Calculators - but related" section and it shouldn't be a big deal .. but why this specific post, when I see so many pure math/algorithm discussions in the general forum using "not remotely HP calculators" language and not a single line of HP calculator code ever? I don't bother, so why bother for this particular post?

Christoph's emulators are around for at least two decades (yes, decades) and are really part of the HP calculator world.
They aren't "Not quite HP Calculators - but related" things like some emulators/simulators that have only loose connections with the original (my emu72 emulator for instance, were you thinking of something else :-) .
They are exact equivalent (as exact as they can be) of the physical machines, and many of us use these emulators to check a particular calculator feature, it's faster than getting the machine from the collection, installing batteries, etc.
In that sense, they aren't just "emulators", they are tools for HP calculator collectors/experts/historians.

[philosophy]
And what is the essence of a HP calculator? Does it depend of the physical aspects? Does a change of key, colour, or housing change the nature of the calculator? No, the essence of a calculator is what its firmware and electronic hardware are. And Christoph's emulators precisely reproduce the electronic hardware and use the exact firmware. In that sense, they are the "true" HP calculators.
[/philosophy]

So let's cool down, it's not a big deal probably yes, but please be tolerant. On the other side I don't blame the moderator(s), it's a ungrateful job and any mistake is badly received.
Christoph, please continue to post your announcements here, for the benefit of the community (I for sure will be aware of your work).

J-F

RMollov · 09-22-2021, 11:16 AM

(09-22-2021 09:15 AM)J-F Garnier Wrote: .. but why this specific post, when I see so many pure math/algorithm discussions in the general forum using "not remotely HP calculators" language and not a single line of HP calculator code ever?

+1
Seems like turning a calculator forum to a platform for lecturers/matemathicians is OK while pure HP emulators are not?

I use some emulators on my handheld devices, most based on CG's work and find it a lot more part of HP calc vibe than annoying teachers' talks.

RMollov · (This post was last modified: 09-22-2021 11:23 AM by RMollov.)

(09-22-2021 07:27 AM)ijabbott Wrote: Doing a quick search on Christoph's threads, I guess most of them should be moved to the "Not quite" forum for consistency.

What do you think about how appropriate and relevant are (for example) Albert Chan's posts here?
Just curious

**Gene** · 09-22-2021, 11:38 AM

The forum here has these things to say about contents in the sub-forums.

General Forum:
Including all HP calculators except the HP Prime. Also HP news, general math and science etc.

Not quite HP Calculators - but related
This is place to discuss emulators, simulators, third party firmware like WP34s, and non-HP RPN calculators.

Gene: so, based on what has been set up here since the new forums were set up, general math and science are topics ** for ** the general forum (read the above) and not OT.

And, the not-quite-HP-calculator forum ** is ** the place for emulators - and Christoph's certainly falls in here.

Higher level, it's simply about trying to keep things organized into the topics the sub-forums are intended to house. Nothing gets "demoted" etc. when something is moved. Moderators use their best judgments and no one is being a dictator. Honest! :-)

Gene

**Gene** · 09-22-2021, 11:40 AM

And forum rules do not allow a post to be deleted ** once ** there are replies to the original post. Makes for incomprehensible results if allowed by the software.

J-F Garnier · 09-22-2021, 11:59 AM

(09-22-2021 11:38 AM)Gene Wrote: The forum here has these things to say about contents in the sub-forums.
[...]

I was expecting something else than this kind of rigid answer/justification.
Too bad, but c'est la vie.

J-F

Claudio L. · 09-22-2021, 02:36 PM

I fail to see why people should feel offended that a post is moved to "Not quite".

We, the citizens of the "Not quite" section of the forum, are not second class people!!
What? "Those guys in General" are saying they are better than us? And the "HP Prime" guys with their color screen arrogance too? This is WAR!!! Smile

Come on, people. We are the SAME bunch posting in both subforums! Who cares where a post is, we'll read it anyway.

Christoph Giesselink · 09-22-2021, 04:11 PM

It's a big deal for me.

The forum "Not quite HP Calculators - but related" is less attractive for me. I don't visit this forum regulary, so when I don't visit this forum, could I expect that other do? Also the default setting of "From: 10 Days Ago" is not very helpful. Just have a look, only 7 entries including the moved Emu42 post in the last 10 days! Why should I post in a sub-forum which has less visitors?

One example happend some month ago, Angel posted a V41 R9 related question in "Not quite...". Weeks later after this posting I made a "Google search" about a V41 related topic and found a hit in this forum I haven't recognized before. So when you enter a question to my emulators in the "Not quite..." forum, don't expect that I ever read this post.

I don't earn any money with the work on the emulators, so it make no difference for me if I announce emulator updates or not.

vassilisprevelakis · 09-22-2021, 05:14 PM

(09-21-2021 09:45 PM)Christoph Giesselink Wrote: For decades I put my emulator annoucement in the Genaral Forum, but now a Moderator means, that's the wrong place, and moved "Update of Emu42 to v1.26" to the "Nor quite HP Calculators - but related". When Emu42 don't discuss HP calculators, what else?

All you need to do is name the article "New Mathematical Problem: how to Update Emu{21*2} to v{1+0.26}"

and it will never get bounced off the main list :-)

**vp

http://www.series80.org

Claudio L. · 09-22-2021, 07:31 PM

(09-22-2021 04:11 PM)Christoph Giesselink Wrote: It's a big deal for me.

The forum "Not quite HP Calculators - but related" is less attractive for me. I don't visit this forum regulary, so when I don't visit this forum, could I expect that other do? Also the default setting of "From: 10 Days Ago" is not very helpful. Just have a look, only 7 entries including the moved Emu42 post in the last 10 days! Why should I post in a sub-forum which has less visitors?

One example happend some month ago, Angel posted a V41 R9 related question in "Not quite...". Weeks later after this posting I made a "Google search" about a V41 related topic and found a hit in this forum I haven't recognized before. So when you enter a question to my emulators in the "Not quite..." forum, don't expect that I ever read this post.

I don't earn any money with the work on the emulators, so it make no difference for me if I announce emulator updates or not.

I guess if you aren't used to the "multiforum" format you may miss some posts, but most people are used to it by now. The threads with the most views and the most posts in this entire website happen to be on the "not quite" subforum, so I don't think it has less traffic than the general forum.
I honestly never had a problem with people not replying when I post something there.
I personally hop through all the subforums to see what's new, you never know the interesting subjects you may end up seeing (for example, I found out about the death of Sir Clive Sinclair on hpmuseum.org and not on the news, go figure).

ijabbott · 09-22-2021, 08:02 PM

(09-22-2021 11:19 AM)RMollov Wrote:
(09-22-2021 07:27 AM)ijabbott Wrote: Doing a quick search on Christoph's threads, I guess most of them should be moved to the "Not quite" forum for consistency.

What do you think about how appropriate and relevant are (for example) Albert Chan's posts here?
Just curious

Well there is probably an argument for moving the general stuff into the "Not HP Calculators" section, and renaming this one to something more appropriate. But I don't make the rules, and it would be a lot of work for the mods to sort through and move the general threads already here.

ijabbott · 09-22-2021, 08:26 PM

(09-22-2021 04:11 PM)Christoph Giesselink Wrote: It's a big deal for me.

The forum "Not quite HP Calculators - but related" is less attractive for me. I don't visit this forum regulary, so when I don't visit this forum, could I expect that other do? Also the default setting of "From: 10 Days Ago" is not very helpful. Just have a look, only 7 entries including the moved Emu42 post in the last 10 days! Why should I post in a sub-forum which has less visitors?

For me, it says "From: The Beginning".

I suppose the forum at the top naturally gets a few more visitors, but there doesn't seem to be that much in it.

Quote:I don't earn any money with the work on the emulators, so it make no difference for me if I announce emulator updates or not.

Fair enough, but you will probably get fewer visitors to your own site if there is no reason to look.

Craig Bladow · 09-22-2021, 09:43 PM

(09-22-2021 04:11 PM)Christoph Giesselink Wrote: It's a big deal for me.

The forum "Not quite HP Calculators - but related" is less attractive for me. I don't visit this forum regulary, so when I don't visit this forum, could I expect that other do? Also the default setting of "From: 10 Days Ago" is not very helpful. Just have a look, only 7 entries including the moved Emu42 post in the last 10 days! Why should I post in a sub-forum which has less visitors?

Christoph, thanks for explaining your concern. I didn't understand at first as I always come to the site and click on "New Posts" and then I see all the topics and never miss interesting posts such as your emulator announcements.

teenix · 09-22-2021, 10:22 PM

While on the topic of Forums, and I understand it will be extra work for the Forum maintainers, but I still think a new Maintenance Forum would be a good idea. There is plenty of traffic for this subject and should be easier to find solutions to problems. I imagine for simplicity, HP or other models wouldn't matter for inclusion.

cheers

Tony

RMollov · (This post was last modified: 09-23-2021 06:12 AM by RMollov.)

(09-22-2021 08:02 PM)ijabbott Wrote:
(09-22-2021 11:19 AM)RMollov Wrote: What do you think about how appropriate and relevant are (for example) Albert Chan's posts here?
Just curious

Well there is probably an argument for moving the general stuff into the "Not HP Calculators" section, and renaming this one to something more appropriate. But I don't make the rules, and it would be a lot of work for the mods to sort through and move the general threads already here.

So because "rules are rules" you are happy to read endless math teacher's logorea here? How come all of the above became "general stuff" in a pure calculator forum?

I've been part ot these forums for 25+ years. I am a surveyor and HP calculators trace all my professoinal career. I know enough math to do my job and I am not interested in math classes neither in learning other computer languages - and this is what we are getting here lately. Short review would certanly show calculator stuff is simply missing (if you ignore some stupid repeated 'questions' Matt Agajanian style).