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41C Service Modules and module testing port dependencies
12-20-2021, 08:51 AM
Post: #1
41C Service Modules and module testing port dependencies
I am testing out the two 41C service modules via a NoV-64d programmed as a Clonix-D with both Service Modules (C/CX).

All the calculator tests work fine and seem straightforward, however, when testing various modules such as ROM, RAM, X-Functions/Memory it appears only one module can be installed at a time and it must be in port 4.

Both service manuals only mention installing the Service Module in the lower left port but also say install in any port (the Clonix-D configuration acts as the original SM in an odd port and the later SM in an even port).

I tested with both a 41C and a 41CV. I tested standard memory modules in the 41C and the QUAD memory module, Time Extended Functions/Memory in the 41CV. Cardreader tests were successfully done in both the 41C and 41CV.

Do the Service Modules require only a single additional module be installed for testing (eg ONLY Extended Functions, ONLY Extended Memory etc)?

Do the Service Modules require the module to be tested be installed in port 4 (except for the Time module)?

Not owning original Service Modules I can't compare with the real thing to see whether it could be a NoV-64d/Clonix-D issue.

Any information or advice appreciated.
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12-21-2021, 12:51 PM
Post: #2
RE: 41C Service Modules and module testing port dependencies
Hi,

Although I'm currently abroad and have no real SM with me, I'll try my best to answer.

I did many (read hundreds of) tests while developing the SM emulation for the Clonix/NoV modules and I'm glad that you have got good results from them. :-)

If my memory (from more than ten years ago) serves me well when testing ROM pacs the ET-11966 requires it to be inserted into port 4 (Lower-right).

The reference of the port 3 (Lower left) to insert the SM in is irrelevant and (IMHO) just inherited from the fact that the early 41Cs needed a special Memory Module ET-11967 which had to be placed into port 4.

This ET-11967 module is a double memory module which fills both ports 3 & 4 address range and has FI line active (no one of these has ever showed-up so far AFAIK).

On the other hand, you can select the [GEN ROM TEST] (Key [8]) which is only available on SM-2A and the test will find the ROM pac regardless the port it is plugged in. But 4K, 8K, 12K, 16K ROM tests (Keys [SST], [<-], [6] & [3]) also require the ROM pac to be in port 4.

In short, yes, ROM pacs have to be in port 4 for ROM test and SM (Clonix emulation) can live into 1, 2 or 3.

If you want to keep SM-2A into port 3 just reconfigure your Clonix/NoV with the Service 41CX instead of the C/CX application.

Hope this help, some errors in all of the above may arise due to the many years passed... Undecided

Best wishes and a great Xmas Season.

Diego.

"Do not suppose, check it twice."
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12-21-2021, 10:26 PM
Post: #3
RE: 41C Service Modules and module testing port dependencies
Thanks for your reply Diego, very helpful.

I'm also finding that to test other modules like X Functions/Memory and memory modules (single, quad) also requires installation in port 4 and no other module can be installed at the same time (eg only X Memory with no X Functions). This doesn't make sense to me as, for example, normal memory modules must be installed starting at port 1 and X Functions/Memory port shouldn't matter.

Any information or ideas regarding this?

Thanks, Darren
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12-22-2021, 03:13 AM (This post was last modified: 12-23-2021 11:20 AM by Diego Diaz.)
Post: #4
RE: 41C Service Modules and module testing port dependencies
Hi Darren,

After revisiting the manuals here's what I've found:

On Appendix A (p. A-2) HP-41C & CV/CX Service manuals it is noted that Application or Memory modules must be placed into port 4 for testing including the X FUN/MEM module.

The SM-2A can be placed on any port (p. 4-9) and EXT MEMORY modules can be placed into ports 2 or 4 (p A-5/A-6).

I've got none of such modules here to perform any test which confirms the above but I'm pretty sure these directions are correct. :-)

Best.

Diego.

"Do not suppose, check it twice."
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12-22-2021, 03:27 AM
Post: #5
RE: 41C Service Modules and module testing port dependencies
Perfect - thanks!

I went through all of section 4 including the sample execution and table of all options and messages and thought that was everything and missed the appendices. I'm surprised it's not mentioned in section 4 somewhere.

This aligns with my testing so everything appears to be working properly.

Much appreciated :-)

(12-22-2021 03:13 AM)Diego Diaz Wrote:  Hi Darren,

After revisiting the manuals here's what I've found:

On Appendix A (p. A-2) HP-41C & CV/CX Service manuals it is noted that Application or Memory modules must be placed into port 4 for testing including the X FUN/MEM module.

The SM-2A can be placed on any port (p. 4-9) and EXT MEMORY modules can be placed into ports 2 or 4 (p A-5/A-6).

I've got none of such modules here to perform any test which confirms the above but I'm prety sure these directions are correct. :-)

Best.

Diego.
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12-22-2021, 03:34 AM
Post: #6
RE: 41C Service Modules and module testing port dependencies
Also, be aware that the sleep current test will be off the charts high when using an emulated rom.

Other than that expected issue, everything works as expected. I bought an original Clonix from Diego many years ago loaded with the original 41C service module, I’ve never once attempted to reprogram it.
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12-22-2021, 03:47 AM
Post: #7
RE: 41C Service Modules and module testing port dependencies
BTW, why is that? Isn't the original module just a ROM also?

(12-22-2021 03:34 AM)GreyUser Wrote:  Also, be aware that the sleep current test will be off the charts high when using an emulated rom.

Other than that expected issue, everything works as expected. I bought an original Clonix from Diego many years ago loaded with the original 41C service module, I’ve never once attempted to reprogram it.
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12-22-2021, 01:51 PM (This post was last modified: 12-22-2021 01:52 PM by Sylvain Cote.)
Post: #8
RE: 41C Service Modules and module testing port dependencies
The Clonix/NoV modules uses Flash to store ROM images and a PIC to do the interpretation logic, so it adds latencies compared to the original ROM.
(12-22-2021 03:47 AM)dmh Wrote:  BTW, why is that? Isn't the original module just a ROM also?
(12-22-2021 03:34 AM)GreyUser Wrote:  Also, be aware that the sleep current test will be off the charts high when using an emulated rom.

edit: typo
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