Somehow related to HP Calculators

01042022, 11:13 AM
Post: #1




Somehow related to HP Calculators
Hi Everyone and Happy New Year to all of you !
This thread is not strictly related to calculators but somehow it could be interesting to code the solution However, if it is not appropriated to be posted here the Administrators can remove it or move it I'll try to make some examples, I apologize in advance if I'm not making this clear enough Retention of the people in a company is a key aspect nowadays We usually give to the best people a sort of bonus at the end of the year, let's say 500 € The cost over a 6 years period is obviously 6 times the prize (excluding taxes but I'm more on the criteria here) To motivate people to stay with the company, we want to modify this model toward a "loyalty model", .i.e. the more you stay the more you gain That would be something like this (on a 6 years plan) for the first two years a 500 € pay raise each year for the 3rd, 4th a 1000 € pay raise each year for the 5th, 6th a 1500 € pay raise each year Being a pay raise is sort of cumulative over the years and this change a lot the total company cost My math is too rusty to get this straight, the question is, at the end of the 6th year what would it be the total of the pay raises ? Eventually, can this be translated in a program (HP65) where these parameters can be changed and the result can be foreseen playing with the parameters ? Thanks in advance ! Take care Edoardo & Alberto 

01042022, 12:35 PM
Post: #2




RE: Somehow related to HP Calculators
Hello!
(01042022 11:13 AM)albertofenini Wrote: Eventually, can this be translated in a program (HP65) where these parameters can be changed The idea has a certain charm to it, but as an employee I would probably insist that my salary and my bonuses for 2022 be computed using modern and transparent methods and tools ;) However there might be somthing different that can be made from this idea: Why not give new applicants one of your HP65 calculators and a manual the day before the job interview and let them figure out their future salary and bonus for themselves using that tool? Those who come up with an exceptionally smart program will get an extra bonus on top.... Regards Max 

01042022, 12:50 PM
Post: #3




RE: Somehow related to HP Calculators
We can "move" paid raise of odd years to even. Here is a table for year 2k:
Code: k Δ Δ² Δ³ cumulative paid raise (year 2n) = sum(1000*k, k=1..n) = 500*n*(n+1) For year 6, cumulative paid raise = 500*3*4 = 6000 For completeness, for odd years: cumulative paid raise (year 2n1) = 500*n*(n+1)  500*n = 500*n^2 

01042022, 01:49 PM
Post: #4




RE: Somehow related to HP Calculators
Hi Max and thanks for replying
Let me tell you that this is by no mean thought to save money on employees shoulders but rather trying to figure a way that given you actual salary your loyalty is awarded by adding on top more that you could achieve with a linear model, in return I am expecting that the economical aspect will be an additional (hopefully not the only one) reason to remain with the company Training is a dramatic effort for the companies and there a number of big players out there ready to offer very aggressive salaries once the (your) people is well trained Said that, I need to understand where this method is going to take the company from a budget point of view and check that is sustainable. Using a formula is much more effective rather than doing the match each time Let's make an example, starting salary is 10.000 1st year increase is 500 salary goes to 10.500 2nd year increase is 500 the salary goes to 11.000 3rd year increase is 1000 salary reaches 12.000 4th year increase is 1000 salary reaches 13.000 5th year increase is 1500 salary reaches 14.500 6th year increase is 1500 salary reaches 16.000 the earning for the guy is 10500+11000+12000+13000+14500+16000 = 77000 versus 10000*6 + 6000 (the sum of the bonus) = 66000 it reminds me somehow of a summation but the it is not constant and this makes difficult (for me) to put it in a formula Another idea is to start with a little raise but double it every year, may be this is even more actrattive and easier to explain We are a cybersecurity company, so we don't really write code or look for people able to do it, thought this could change with the new DevSecOps paradigm, and for how smart is the new generation, and they really are, you should see their reaction when they see me use an HP65 or a similar one, I'm afraid asking to write a code will dramatically reduce the number of candidates that will pass the interview .... Any suggestions is very welcome ! Take care (01042022 12:35 PM)Maximilian Hohmann Wrote: Hello! Edoardo & Alberto 

01042022, 03:08 PM
Post: #5




RE: Somehow related to HP Calculators
(01042022 01:49 PM)albertofenini Wrote: Let's make an example, starting salary is 10.000 To get 6 paid raises, employee had to work 7 years: total earnings = 10000+77000 = 87000 Also, odd and even years have different paid raise formulas Let s0 = starting salary, with 2n paid raises Cumulative company paid to employee (worked 2n+1 years) = s0 * (2n+1) + sum(500*k*k, k=1..n) + sum(500*k*(k+1), k=1..n) = s0 * (2n+1) + 500 * sum(2k^2 + k, k=1..n) = s0 * (2n+1) + 500 * (2*n*(n+1)*(2n+1)/6 + n*(n+1)/2) = s0 * (2n+1) + 250 * n * (n+1) * (4n+5) / 3 For example, for working 7 years (n=3): CAS> (s0*(2n+1) + 250*n*(n+1)*(4n+5)/3) (s0=10000, n=3) → 87000 For completeness, if employee worked even years: Cumulative company paid to employee (worked 2n years) = s0 * (2n+1) + 250 * n * (n+1) * (4n+5) / 3  (s0 + 500*n*(n+1)) = s0 * 2n + 250 * n * (n+1) * (4n1) / 3 

01042022, 04:21 PM
Post: #6




RE: Somehow related to HP Calculators
Hello Alberto,
(01042022 01:49 PM)albertofenini Wrote: Let me tell you that this is by no mean thought to save money on employees shoulders ... No worries, I did not understand it that way :) But for most employees their salary is really vital for every aspect of their life, so the idea that it gets calculated using a toy calculator (by today's standards) is somewhat intriguing. (01042022 01:49 PM)albertofenini Wrote: ... and check that is sustainable. Then even more so I would not entrust the wellbeing of my company on 50 year old selfrestored calculators! (01042022 01:49 PM)albertofenini Wrote: Using a formula is much more effective rather than doing the match each time In your case with discontinuos input values it will not be easy to derive an equation that takes care of everyting. Your algorithm will have to take a list of values (bonus or pay rise for every year with the company) as input. The HP65 is not really suited to do that, especially if you expect your employees to stay with your company throughout their entire career (i.e. 40 or 45 years). It only has 9 memory registers some of which you will need for your calculation also. One solution that you already suggest would be a steady increase every year. You can easily calculate that by replacing your HP65 with an HP80 and using it's builtin TVM functions. (Or both cases, steady and discontinuos, with a little copypasting within an Excel spreadsheet  which still would be my choice of tool.) (01042022 01:49 PM)albertofenini Wrote: ...the earning for the guy is 10500+11000+12000+13000+14500+16000 = 77000 If I were the employee I would know what to choose, same as if I were the employer. (01042022 01:49 PM)albertofenini Wrote: Any suggestions is very welcome ! One thing comes to mind: Although I have lived and worked in Italy for more than 20 years (not really far away from you) that was not under the Italian taxation. I always paid my taxes in Germany. Here, bonus payments at the end of the year are something one tries to avoid as an employee since they are heavily taxed. I would prefer a 50 Euro montly increase over a single 1000 Euro bonus in December (even if on paper it almost looks like double). But in the end (i.e. after taxes) I will have about the same amount of cash in my pocket plus a better pension because of the higer monthly income. But I really don't know if that applies to Italy as well. And one more (rather personal) thing that could motivate me to stay with my employer: Instead of a bonus or rise of salary, I would always prefer more free time instead. So for me, the most welcome thing would be one more day of holidays for every year with the company (or one hour less of work per week). Some companies here do it that way and it makes it very hard for longtime employees to leave. Regards Max 

01042022, 04:42 PM
(This post was last modified: 01042022 04:43 PM by albertofenini.)
Post: #7




RE: Somehow related to HP Calculators
Hi Max
the use of an HP65 was just for the fun of it But you are right, an HP80 or any native financial calculator will do better for these kind of problems I'll go get my HP80 At the end this problem is very similar to that of a bank deposit revaluation with yearly growing interest, is this you mean with TMV ? The idea of giving free time is also excellent and I'm sure it will definitely used Hope we are not going too much off topic ... thanks a lot and take care (01042022 04:21 PM)Maximilian Hohmann Wrote: Hello Alberto, Edoardo & Alberto 

01042022, 05:38 PM
Post: #8




RE: Somehow related to HP Calculators
Hello!
(01042022 04:42 PM)albertofenini Wrote: is this you mean with TMV ? TVM stands for "time value of money" and is often used as a shortcut for all kinds of financial calculations. (01042022 04:42 PM)albertofenini Wrote: iHope we are not going too much off topic ... Haven't calculating machines been inventend to free us from tediuos tasks and give us more time to live? Just imagine what Galilei and Kepler could have achieved if they had not wasted half their lifes doing celestial calculations by hand. The HP65 was invented 400 years too late! Saluti Max 

01042022, 07:10 PM
Post: #9




RE: Somehow related to HP Calculators
Where I once worked, a job candidate was given a Stardate,
and they had to answer the the name of the episode and the name of guest star (if any). Correctly answering the question was a good sign that they were a good fit. (just kidding, but we did consider it briefly) 10B, 10BII, 12C, 14B, 15C, 16C, 17B, 18C, 19BII, 20b, 22, 29C, 35, 38G, 39G, 41CV, 48G, 97 

01052022, 07:42 AM
(This post was last modified: 01052022 07:42 AM by EdS2.)
Post: #10




RE: Somehow related to HP Calculators
If you give the same raise every year, the salary goes up linearly. If you increase the raise linearly, the salary will go up quadratically. This just might be sustainable for the business. But if you increase the raise each year by multiplying it by a constant, now the salary is exponential. This is famously not sustainable in the long run!
I do like Albert's approach: by looking at pairs of years, the staircase of salary increases now looks like a straight line, and everything is easier. A note on vocabulary: a bonus is not (in UK English) anything like a salary increase. It's a onetime payment. As such, it is a variable reward which doesn't commit the company to everincreasing costs. And, ideally, the salary as such  the base salary, without the bonus  is enough for the employee to feel comfortable. The bonus is optional, and in tough times the bonus may disappear. A note on Italian employment: I had an understanding that in Italy the employees are paid 1/13 of their annual salary each month. At the end of the (calendar?) year, the 13th payment is paid, which allows it to take into account any complicated taxation or other deduction, and also allows it to act as a Christmas bonus  even though everything could, in principle, be figured out with 12 equal monthly payments. Another calendrical oddity: while it's normal for salaried people in the UK to be paid monthly, sometimes the payment is (or was) made on a specific day of the week, which means the employee who thinks in terms of weekly budgets now needs to consider the 4 week month and the 5 week month, and budget accordingly. 

01052022, 01:52 PM
Post: #11




RE: Somehow related to HP Calculators
Hi
(01052022 07:42 AM)EdS2 Wrote: If you give the same raise every year, the salary goes up linearly. If you increase the raise linearly, the salary will go up quadratically. This just might be sustainable for the business. But if you increase the raise each year by multiplying it by a constant, now the salary is exponential. This is famously not sustainable in the long run! Edoardo & Alberto 

01052022, 02:00 PM
Post: #12




RE: Somehow related to HP Calculators
To address the original question, may I suggest the following:
Code:
You enter the starting salary (10000) and press A. You enter the bonus amount (500) and press B. Press C to initialize. Press D, get year (0). Press R/S, get salary at end of year 0. Press R/S, get salary plus total bonuses paid. Press D again, get year (1). Press R/S, get salary at end of year 1. Press R/S, get salary plus total bonuses paid. Repeat the press D step for each subsequent year. The results I get are: 10000 A "10000.00" 500 B "500.00" C "0.00" D "0.00" R/S "10500.00" R/S "10500.00" D "1.00" R/S "10500.00" R/S "11000.00" D "2.00" R/S "11000.00" R/S "12000.00" D "3.00" R/S "11000.00" R/S "13000.00" D "4.00" R/S "11500.00" R/S "14500.00" D "5.00" R/S "11500.00" R/S "16000.00" etc Register 1 stores salary. Register 2 stores the bonus amount. Register 3 is a counter for years employed. Register 4 accumulates the total bonuses paid. It isn't quite what was asked for. The final figure from the LBL D routine should include each years salary, not just one year's worth. That'd be fixed by moving the STO + 4 from line 027 to just after the + currently on line 031. I accept that this doesn't account for Italian or German taxes and that Excel is probably an easier approach these days. However, had the problem been considered in the HP65's day, Excel wouldn't have been around. The above code plugs directly into my HP65 microcode emulator (can be run directly on the website, click the digit display then Program and the input box then paste). It should run in other emulators too or on the real thing. Whilst I'm in Australia  slightly south of Teenix  and not looking for a job in Italy, I think I've met the selection criteria :) All the best,  Greg from sydneysmith.com 

01052022, 02:55 PM
Post: #13




RE: Somehow related to HP Calculators
(01042022 04:21 PM)Maximilian Hohmann Wrote: I always paid my taxes in Germany. Here, bonus payments at the end of the year are something one tries to avoid as an employee since they are heavily taxed. I would prefer a 50 Euro montly increase over a single 1000 Euro bonus in December (even if on paper it almost looks like double). My guess is bonus seemed to be heavily taxed due to progressive tax structure. But, at the end of the day, you'd owe the same taxes either way, 1 time bonus or spreadout over the year. Here's why your bonus is taxed so high Quote:It comes down to what's called "supplemental income." Although all of your earned dollars are equal at tax time, when bonuses are issued, they're considered supplemental income by the IRS and held to a higher withholding rate. 

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