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DM32
05-13-2022, 01:47 AM
Post: #41
RE: DM32
(05-07-2022 10:24 AM)Vincent Weber Wrote:  First, yes, the 32SII rom, like all pioneers, is copyrighted, so emulation is out of question.
How are they able to emulate the voyager series (12C, 15C, etc.)? Aren't all the ROMs copyrighted?
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05-13-2022, 02:33 AM
Post: #42
RE: DM32
(05-13-2022 01:47 AM)David Hayden Wrote:  How are they able to emulate the voyager series (12C, 15C, etc.)? Aren't all the ROMs copyrighted?

The Voyager series (and their predecessors) are a special case. At the time they were made, things had to have a copyright notice on them to be copyrighted. HP neglected to include a copyright notice in their ROM chips, so they weren't copyrighted and therefore can be emulated, even commercially, without restriction. The only thing protecting them is trademark, so as long as you don't call your clone an "HP 12C" or something similar you are fine with selling a clone. This is no longer the case for new creations, though, as everything made for the last several decades is automatically copyrighted without a notice needed.

That's why my speculation is that the DM32 has been recreated from scratch, much like the DM42, rather than it being based on an emulated Saturn and running an HP ROM, and the early comment about it being a "Saturn-based" machine is likely incorrect, as it's instead just simulating a Saturn-based machine (again, like the DM42).
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05-13-2022, 12:40 PM
Post: #43
RE: DM32
Interestingly enough, HP48, HP49 and HP50 ROMs can be freely emulated with apparently no limitations.
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05-13-2022, 11:52 PM
Post: #44
RE: DM32
(05-13-2022 12:40 PM)amalahama Wrote:  Interestingly enough, HP48, HP49 and HP50 ROMs can be freely emulated with apparently no limitations.

That's not fully correct. You can use them freely for personal use, for commercial use you need a separate license, when you get one. So using them in an emulator which is sold, it's a gray zone. Have you payed the money for the work on the software? Or have you payed the money for the emulated calculator?
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05-16-2022, 09:29 AM
Post: #45
RE: DM32
(05-10-2022 09:25 AM)jonmoore Wrote:  https://www.engineeringexamtools.com/pro...lculators/
It’s interesting that programming calculators is a viable business in 2022.

I wonder if they employ (Chinese/Indian?) typists to enter the programs or devised a key-punching machine…
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05-16-2022, 11:33 AM
Post: #46
RE: DM32
(05-16-2022 09:29 AM)Siegfried Wrote:  
(05-10-2022 09:25 AM)jonmoore Wrote:  https://www.engineeringexamtools.com/pro...lculators/
It’s interesting that programming calculators is a viable business in 2022.

I wonder if they employ (Chinese/Indian?) typists to enter the programs or devised a key-punching machine…

From their FAQ:
“We use a unique programmer device, designed and built to enter data by pressing the keys with solenoids. The data is checked manually before the calculator is shipped out.”
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05-23-2022, 04:23 PM
Post: #47
RE: DM32
(05-16-2022 11:33 AM)Steve Simpkin Wrote:  From their FAQ:
“We use a unique programmer device, designed and built to enter data by pressing the keys with solenoids. The data is checked manually before the calculator is shipped out.”
I've been thinking that it would be fun to create a key presser from one of the robotic kits that are available these days.
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05-23-2022, 08:36 PM
Post: #48
RE: DM32
(05-23-2022 04:23 PM)David Hayden Wrote:  I've been thinking that it would be fun to create a key presser from one of the robotic kits that are available these days.

Funny you should mention that. Many years ago, when I first got my HP-42s, I was frustrated that it could take a while to key in a large program (and not to mention the time to check that it had been keyed in correctly).

I thought of using an old flat bed pen plotter. I could cut an opening in the bed of the plotter to hold the HP-42s, maybe put some foam behind it. Then write a program that would take a program listing and then key it into the 42s by moving the pen up/down at the correct locations.

I never did try it - I didn't have the plotter.

But it should be possible to do with the new robot kits.

Of course, now I have the DM42, which can load/save programs very easily.

But it would be a fun project to try if I had a robot kit.

73
Bill WD9EQD
Smithville, NJ
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05-25-2022, 10:36 AM
Post: #49
RE: DM32
I'm looking forward to the DM32, and I'll be interested to see how it stacks up with my DM42. I am still searching for that perfect stripped-down scientific calculator. Now that the HP 35S is being scalped for small fortunes, I wonder if they'll take on an NCESS-approved machine after the DM32 release? Or if the DM32 will meet the NCEES guidelines... :O
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05-25-2022, 07:21 PM
Post: #50
RE: DM32
I bought a HP 32Sii recently off the flea-bay. I'm not sure if the DM32 will have features compelling enough for me to want to buy one. (I do have a DM42 and a couple of HP-42S's though. I bought the DM42 before the HP-42S in that case!)

— Ian Abbott
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05-25-2022, 11:35 PM
Post: #51
RE: DM32
(05-25-2022 07:21 PM)ijabbott Wrote:  I bought a HP 32Sii recently off the flea-bay. I'm not sure if the DM32 will have features compelling enough for me to want to buy one. (I do have a DM42 and a couple of HP-42S's though. I bought the DM42 before the HP-42S in that case!)

Features? You want features? The DM32 has the feature of being a programmable RPN pocket calculator which you do not yet own. That alone is sufficient motivation for most of us to buy one. Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin

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05-25-2022, 11:56 PM
Post: #52
RE: DM32
(05-25-2022 11:35 PM)Joe Horn Wrote:  
(05-25-2022 07:21 PM)ijabbott Wrote:  I bought a HP 32Sii recently off the flea-bay. I'm not sure if the DM32 will have features compelling enough for me to want to buy one. (I do have a DM42 and a couple of HP-42S's though. I bought the DM42 before the HP-42S in that case!)

Features? You want features? The DM32 has the feature of being a programmable RPN pocket calculator which you do not yet own. That alone is sufficient motivation for most of us to buy one. Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin

It will likely also have the distinction of containing vastly more RAM than the 32SII, and that's a good enough feature for me!
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05-26-2022, 05:33 AM
Post: #53
RE: DM32
If I purchase a 32 it will be a DM32 as I don't like the displays on the pioneer series at all.

DM41X, DM42, HP-41CV, HP-42S, HP-35S, HP 95LX - EDIT: I seldom post without an edit.
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05-26-2022, 07:37 PM
Post: #54
RE: DM32
(05-26-2022 05:33 AM)rexbinary Wrote:  If I purchase a 32 it will be a DM32 as I don't like the displays on the pioneer series at all.

The 32Sii display has pretty good contrast - certainly much better than the 42S.

— Ian Abbott
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05-26-2022, 08:16 PM
Post: #55
RE: DM32
(05-25-2022 11:35 PM)Joe Horn Wrote:  Features? You want features? The DM32 has the feature of being a programmable RPN pocket calculator which you do not yet own. That alone is sufficient motivation for most of us to buy one. Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin

Joe's logic is both impeccable and unassailable. I hopefully have two Electronika's arriving today.

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05-26-2022, 08:32 PM
Post: #56
RE: DM32
(05-26-2022 05:33 AM)rexbinary Wrote:  If I purchase a 32 it will be a DM32 as I don't like the displays on the pioneer series at all.
I have found the opposite. I had a 27s and 22s and I found myself not able to resist an exceedingly cheap 10b as baby's next chew toy. Then I found myself jonesing for a 20s.

I simply love clicky buttons and looking at the UI implied by the keyboard function layout.

The first thing I ever did with HP calculators (before I owned one) was try to come up with a more functional keyboard layout. That was either for the 65 or 67, I cannot recall which.

I want a 300s+ for this reason only.

Design problems that attempt to optimize limited resources against use cases are far more interesting than unlimited. I'm (finally) learning the 48SX and then will study how HP changed it for the 48GX. You *know* a lot of thought went into this area. Both SM and the 34S developers are obviously familiar with this concept.

Just fun little bits of information to occupy my thinking. I'm sure there must be some design logic behind the casios and sharps, but no clicky buttons. Plus they just look like they are trying to organize similar functions together. I feel like there is a higher level organization to the 34S when I look at the keyboard, just waiting for me to "get it", like a fun puzzle.

HP calculators are a total experience :-) Maybe not a spiritual experience, but I do feel they are uplifting my soul as opposed to lesser tools.

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05-27-2022, 03:09 AM (This post was last modified: 05-27-2022 03:11 AM by rexbinary.)
Post: #57
RE: DM32
(05-26-2022 07:37 PM)ijabbott Wrote:  The 32Sii display has pretty good contrast - certainly much better than the 42S.

(05-26-2022 08:32 PM)DrewNicholson Wrote:  I have found the opposite. I had a 27s and 22s and I found myself not able to resist an exceedingly cheap 10b as baby's next chew toy. Then I found myself jonesing for a 20s.

That's fair. The only pioneer I have ever used is the 42s I own.

DM41X, DM42, HP-41CV, HP-42S, HP-35S, HP 95LX - EDIT: I seldom post without an edit.
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05-27-2022, 04:29 AM
Post: #58
RE: DM32
(05-26-2022 08:32 PM)DrewNicholson Wrote:  ...

Design problems that attempt to optimize limited resources against use cases are far more interesting than unlimited. I'm (finally) learning the 48SX and then will study how HP changed it for the 48GX. You *know* a lot of thought went into this area. Both SM and the 34S developers are obviously familiar with this concept.

...

Here is a list of differences between the HP-48SX/S and HP-48GX/G models.
10.1 What's new in the HP48 G/GX? (by Joe Horn).
https://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/docs/faq/48f...tml#ss10.1

Also the Aug 1994 edition of HP Journal magazine has a nice write-up of the HP 48G/GX from some of the engineers that worked on it.
http://hparchive.com/Journals/HPJ-1994-08.pdf
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05-27-2022, 01:00 PM
Post: #59
RE: DM32
(05-27-2022 04:29 AM)Steve Simpkin Wrote:  Also the Aug 1994 edition of HP Journal magazine has a nice write-up of the HP 48G/GX from some of the engineers that worked on it.
http://hparchive.com/Journals/HPJ-1994-08.pdf

Thank you! As much as I can appreciate a list like Joe's, and article that explains the thinking behind decisions is super valuable. It also represents a level of thinking that seems sadly lost in a significant portion of the development work that exists on the web. Only recently do developers of web apps seem to have discovered the importance of end to end workflows when they are creating something new.

Too many startups have succumbed to wanting to get their demo out as a product to satisfy management or investor imperatives, and then don't understand why they don't get traction. They use the excuse that they want user feedback to guide them. But the sad truth is they simply don't want to bother to think the problem through and provide at least one complete positive user experience to make their thing *sticky*.

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05-28-2022, 12:22 PM
Post: #60
RE: DM32
(05-25-2022 11:56 PM)Dave Britten Wrote:  
(05-25-2022 11:35 PM)Joe Horn Wrote:  Features? You want features? The DM32 has the feature of being a programmable RPN pocket calculator which you do not yet own. That alone is sufficient motivation for most of us to buy one. Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin

It will likely also have the distinction of containing vastly more RAM than the 32SII, and that's a good enough feature for me!

I wonder if it is possible to fit a larger capacity RAM chip and/or an additional RAM chip in the 32SII and it be usable by the software?

— Ian Abbott
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