Possible scam HP 41CX

[SammysHP]

(09-23-2022 12:28 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  If I don't, I will get my money back, as PayPal will always cover such problems with no hassles. The fact that this site uses PayPal actually gives me confidence, why would they use a processor that will refund all buyer's fees if they were primarily a scammer?

Maybe, maybe not. They might send you a $1 calculator or other item with tracking. If you open a dispute at PayPal, they will show the tracking number with your name and address that will say "delivered successfully", maybe even with a photo of the package.

[floppy]

Perhaps a Countermeasure to this? open the package with a withness. Preferably the delivery person will testify.
a) he/she delivered it
b) it was opened in the front of them (you did not open it alone)
c) take a picture of the person with the item..
(documentation for the paypal and court.. ;-)
Looks like Rob will have a brain jogging and good fun.

[Namir]

Opening it in front of the delivery person is not as easy as it sounds, especially if the postal system delivers it and you are not there.

[floppy]

Another (bold) speculation: by ordering a part (let say HP75 connector), the seller will recognize you as a standard usual customer then you will receive 2kg of Rhino-Horn from China? or 500g heroine from the netherlands?
It mean this is perhaps a page which came out of the darknet.
haha

[Stevetuc]

(09-22-2022 10:12 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  I made a purchase from this site today (not the 41CX, other HP items) and the sale was processed completely as expected. They use 'Checkout with PayPal' as their processor for credit card payments, so of course you do need to sign-in to PayPal to do so. The PayPal process was normal and once the purchase was completed, I immediately received an emailed receipt from the company as well as a legitimate receipt from PayPal, for the exact same amounts, etc. The PayPal invoice says "You paid $XX.XX USD to STANDARD MANAGEMENT SERVICES INC" however it is quite common for the Checkout with PayPal company name to be different from the marketing name used on the website.

Seems fuilly legit to me, at least as a company to buy from.

That said, they also offer other HP calculators which indeed have been tested by the company and these offer money back, so as noted above, just run when you see a 41C listed as "untested" and "no returns", even if the photo of the battery contacts looks clean and shiny.

It will take an adventuresome person to take a chance on purchasing one of these...

Hi Bob
I get a "Checkout with PayPal as Guest" page when I click "Checkout with PayPal". How did you get account sign in to work?
I guess it could be geographic differences, I'm based in UK?

[rprosperi]

(09-25-2022 08:43 AM)Stevetuc Wrote:  Hi Bob
I get a "Checkout with PayPal as Guest" page when I click "Checkout with PayPal". How did you get account sign in to work?
I guess it could be geographic differences, I'm based in UK?

I used my normal PP credentials (after verifying the PP URL was genuine) and the payment process completed as usual.

However, I recommend holding off on more purchases until it can be verified this is legit. It seems incomprehensible to me that someone would create hundreds of item listings merely to hope to scam someone, while using a legitimate payment processor which will determine pretty quickly if it's legit or not.

The email address they use for 'contact us' does not work, so I dug in a bit more, and PP confirms the account is indeed legit, so I contacted the seller via the PP email account and am waiting for a reply. If I get none, I will get a refund from PP and they will shut down the 'Checkout with PayPal', but at least we'll know the deal. I'm feeling less sure today, but it's still worth a little risk to take down a scammer like this if indeed this is the case.

[Didier Lachieze]

In addition to the 90 HP-41CX in stock they have also in stock 73 HP-70 manuals, 37 HP 92198A HP-IL 80 COLUMN VIDEO INTERFACE, 50 HP-25C and many other quite rare HP calculator items.
Seems too good to be true to me ...

EDIT: looking at the book Using Your HP-41 Advantage: Statics for Students which they claim having 21 in stock, I found that the pictures and description are the same as the ones from this eBay item from a well known HP-41 seller. Not a good indicator of a legit business...

[Massimo Gnerucci]

(09-25-2022 01:14 PM)Didier Lachieze Wrote:  EDIT: looking at the book Using Your HP-41 Advantage: Statics for Students which they claim having 21 in stock, I found that the pictures and description are the same as the ones from this eBay item from a well known HP-41 seller. Not a good indicator of a legit business...

Just what I suspected.
In some other ad there were references to eBay payment program...

[rprosperi]

Indeed, looking more sketchy all the time (37 x 80-column video interfaces, aw c'mon!).

It's common for legit businesses to steal pics from eBay for their own listings (since it's easier than taking photos) but the scope of listings here is what makes me wonder... and if scamming, why include the low-cost items, just for optics, to make it look legit?

Well, we'll know soon.

[Maximilian Hohmann]

Hello!

(09-25-2022 02:45 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  ...but the scope of listings here is what makes me wonder... and if scamming, why include the low-cost items, just for optics, to make it look legit?

Really strange. During the last year I have ordered several items, mostly electronics/DIY stuff and telescope acessories in the price range between 10 and 100 Euros, from variuos suppliers in China. Either through eBay, Aliexpress or directly from a Chinese online shop. All these items had in common that they were offered at 1/3 to maximum 2/3 of the usual price. All items from known Chinese brands, e.g. "Svbony" for the telescope accessories, that everybody else sells at more or less the same price.
Everything paid with PayPal. Nothing of that stuff ever arrived, either the seller cancelled the transaction within a few days by himself or I complained when the items were not delivered after a month. I was reimbursed every time. I still wonder what the purpose of these offers may be. Collect addresses and PayPal accounts of people with known interests? Maybe these datasets are worth money to someone.

Regards
Max

[Martin Hepperle]

Some months ago I also found this nice offer ;-)

https://www.outletsuber.com/detail/Hp-82...hfhgl.html

Researching a bit further indicated that this site belongs to a network of many similar sites.

Some typical signs are:

1. too good to be true
2. the given street address is nonsense or does not exist
3. no reply when asking for local pickup
4. wild assortment of goods
   

Martin

[toml_12953]

(09-26-2022 08:47 AM)Martin Hepperle Wrote:  Some months ago I also found this nice offer ;-)

https://www.outletsuber.com/detail/Hp-82...hfhgl.html

They list an Oregon address (no such city name) but the ZIP Code is for Alabama. They didn't even try very hard!

[floppy]

I suppose all that volk are trying to get real name, real addresses, real bank-ID etc. for penetration testing in some countries. Easier to try it with a citizen than with a CIA employee (first). I suggest you complain at your local police and ask to block such pages.

[Albert Chan]

(09-25-2022 03:32 PM)Maximilian Hohmann Wrote:  Everything paid with PayPal. Nothing of that stuff ever arrived ... I was reimbursed every time.
I still wonder what the purpose of these offers may be.

Transaction actually goes through 3 parties.

Reimbursement is by PayPal, but they might have hard time collecting ...
Even if they do collect, seller have a "float" of money to use.

That's assuming buyer remember the transaction months ago.
And, buyer bother with hassle of complaining.

Amazon Scammers Are Using This Trick to Make Millions

(09-25-2022 12:30 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  I'm feeling less sure today, but it's still worth a little risk to take down a scammer like this if indeed this is the case.

Scammer will just rename the website.

[Maximilian Hohmann]

Hello!

(09-26-2022 12:40 PM)Albert Chan Wrote:  Even if they do collect, seller have a "float" of money to use.
...
Amazon Scammers Are Using This Trick to Make Millions

Very good article. It must be something like what is described there.
An easy remedy would be to only pass the money on to the seller once the buyer has acknowledged receiving the merchandise. There are online platforms which do it that way, e.g. Vinted.

The only time that I have been defrauded by a significant amount of money (around 500 Euros for a camera) was on eBay though. That looked like a totally normal auction, the end price was right in the middle of the usual range, from a seller with hundreds of transactions and 100% score - absolutely nothing suspicious. But the eBay account had been hacked and when I wire tranfered the payment (this option is not available any more for a good reason) it was gone together with the fraudsters. There is no protection by eBay in these cases - maybe if you pay with PayPal but their smallprint can catch you in some cases too - and the only thing you can do is go to the police and file a report against an unknown person. Pretty much useless.

Regards
Max

[aurelio]

(09-26-2022 01:15 PM)Maximilian Hohmann Wrote:  Hello!

(09-26-2022 12:40 PM)Albert Chan Wrote:  Even if they do collect, seller have a "float" of money to use.
...
Amazon Scammers Are Using This Trick to Make Millions

Very good article. It must be something like what is described there.
An easy remedy would be to only pass the money on to the seller once the buyer has acknowledged receiving the merchandise. There are online platforms which do it that way, e.g. Vinted.

The only time that I have been defrauded by a significant amount of money (around 500 Euros for a camera) was on eBay though. That looked like a totally normal auction, the end price was right in the middle of the usual range, from a seller with hundreds of transactions and 100% score - absolutely nothing suspicious. But the eBay account had been hacked and when I wire tranfered the payment (this option is not available any more for a good reason) it was gone together with the fraudsters. There is no protection by eBay in these cases - maybe if you pay with PayPal but their smallprint can catch you in some cases too - and the only thing you can do is go to the police and file a report against an unknown person. Pretty much useless.

Regards
Max

The same happened to me with a wire transfer in Indonesia, twenty years ago, I think it was maybe the third purchase on ebay and only after have sent the money I read bad reportings (feedback) about that seller: he was selling items posting pictures of goods from the shops windows, actually a good phothographer
He sold a lot of cheap things receiving good feedbacks by friends (I suppose), so nosuspect, but better to read entirely the listings.
The seller was canceled from TAS but I lost my money
As you wrote there is no protection by eBay in these cases and useless to report that to te police, expecially if the fraudster lives overseas.

[rprosperi]

Follow-up...

Indeed this website is a scam, STAY AWAY under all conditions.

Emails to the address listed on the website simply bounce as undeliverable. Emails to the address included in the PayPal receipt were also unanswered for 5 days.

So, I have received a full refund from PayPal and they have opened a formal investigation to close the 'Checkout via PayPal' account for this company.

Summary:

1. Don't let one's zeal for a good deal blind you to other obvious tell-tale signs of a likely scammer (even an industrious one with HP goodies)

2. Be sure to validate the urls of any 3rd party payment processor (to prevent grabbing your credentials, card number, etc.) you use, in this case PayPal.

3. This scammer will have his PP account closed soon. The only cost (to me) was a bit of time and energy; well worth it to remove him, but there are plenty of others like him, as Martin shared above.

Thanks to all for your comments.

[floppy]

I enjoyed to see your brain jogging.
:-)

[aurelio]

(09-28-2022 04:29 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  Follow-up...

Indeed this website is a scam, STAY AWAY under all conditions.

Emails to the address listed on the website simply bounce as undeliverable. Emails to the address included in the PayPal receipt were also unanswered for 5 days.

So, I have received a full refund from PayPal and they have opened a formal investigation to close the 'Checkout via PayPal' account for this company.

Summary:

1. Don't let one's zeal for a good deal blind you to other obvious tell-tale signs of a likely scammer (even an industrious one with HP goodies)

2. Be sure to validate the urls of any 3rd party payment processor (to prevent grabbing your credentials, card number, etc.) you use, in this case PayPal.

3. This scammer will have his PP account closed soon. The only cost (to me) was a bit of time and energy; well worth it to remove him, but there are plenty of others like him, as Martin shared above.

Thanks to all for your comments.

Thanks Bob for the report. and happy that you managed to get out of this situation without losing money. Thanks for the advice.

[Eric Rechlin]

(09-28-2022 04:29 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  Follow-up...

Indeed this website is a scam, STAY AWAY under all conditions.

Emails to the address listed on the website simply bounce as undeliverable. Emails to the address included in the PayPal receipt were also unanswered for 5 days.

So, I have received a full refund from PayPal and they have opened a formal investigation to close the 'Checkout via PayPal' account for this company.

Summary:

1. Don't let one's zeal for a good deal blind you to other obvious tell-tale signs of a likely scammer (even an industrious one with HP goodies)

2. Be sure to validate the urls of any 3rd party payment processor (to prevent grabbing your credentials, card number, etc.) you use, in this case PayPal.

3. This scammer will have his PP account closed soon. The only cost (to me) was a bit of time and energy; well worth it to remove him, but there are plenty of others like him, as Martin shared above.

Thanks to all for your comments.

Cost to the recipient was the PayPal fees, too, because PayPal no longer refunds fees (typically 2.9% plus 30 cents) when a payment is refunded. So the scammer is probably out a few bucks thanks to your order, too.