Any guidelines on eBay purchases?

[John Garza (3665)]

Just wondering if anyone has produced such a thing.

I have learned (usually the hard way) a few things to avoid:

* no pic of the display ON with no problems
* no pic of the battery compartment
* no effort to test it, or at least get a battery and turn it on
* no case (usually means it was unprotected)
* comes with a surveying pac (heavy field use)
* dust/dirt on the keyboard (no consideration to at least wipe it down or use a soft brush)
* seller is not a calculator specialist (not always a bad sign but you take your chances)

Of course, little of this applies if you're looking for a parts machine.
And be prepared to pay extra if the seller has refurbished the unit - unless you want that job.

-John

[Maximilian Hohmann]

Hello!

All good points, just a few remarks

(01-28-2023 02:41 PM)John Garza (3665) Wrote:  * no effort to test it, or at least get a battery and turn it on

This is especially suspicious if the seller has other calculators and electronic stuff on sale or is known to regularly sell those. Sentences like "I couldn't test it because I don't have batteries for it" or "unit is untested" are always equivalent to "the calculator does not work".

(01-28-2023 02:41 PM)John Garza (3665) Wrote:  * no case (usually means it was unprotected)

As I am more interested in the real old calculators (before 1980) I don't usually mind. These calculators will not have been stored in the open during those four decades. And whether or not they lay in a drawer or box with their case does not make any difference. On the contrary, there are some calculator cases with a foam padding that can turn to sticky crumbles over the years, which are quite difficult to get rid of. The Ti-58/59 series are prone to that. I rather want them without their pouch!

Regards
Max

[Siegfried]

Exceptions prove the rule, as we say in German...

I just bought a HP45 advertised as "probably not working" which turned out to be fine (except for the batteries).

I'd say my results for "not working" are about 50/50 but as said it depends a lot on whether the seller is likely to be able to test it or just found some old stuff when clearing out granddad's study.

[Massimo Gnerucci]

(01-28-2023 06:47 PM)Siegfried Wrote:  Exceptions prove the rule, as we say in German...

Please, don't steal from our latin: Exceptio probat regulam in casibus non exceptis
:)

[Maximilian Hohmann]

Hello!

(01-28-2023 07:36 PM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  Please, don't steal from our latin...

It is our latin as well because they tortured us at school as much with it as they did you ;-) This specific piece is from Cicero if I remember correctly.

And regarding the subject: Occasionally I too bid on "non working" calculators, hoping that the seller does not know what he is talking about. Sometimes it is just a minor problem, like corroded battery contacts in Woodstock-series calculators. But more often it turns out to be a major restoration project or just another piece for the nearest landfill.

Regards
Max

[John Garza (3665)]

Sometimes I do get a rare find - like a 'dead' HP-45.
It was just corrosion on the metal flaps in the battery connector port.
1 minute to fashion a wire jumper, and now it works fine. Cosmetics/keyboard/display all excellent.

[John Garza (3665)]

And then there are the hucksters that get confused - but then I may be giving them the benefit of the doubt.

I recently bought a 67 on eBay ( a Singapore model) in perfect condition, bright keyboard, and refurbished card reader. What I got was a different machine, dirty, engraving scratched in the top plastic above the display, and the wrong serial number - a made in USA model. I bought it for $500, but I'd say the one I received is worth about a $100 less as I will have to spend my time to clean it up. Other than that I already own 4 HP-67's all made in USA. I wanted to get a Singapore model for my collection. I've already contacted the seller and asked if he has the other one and offered to send mine back in exchange. I'm interested in seeing how this plays out. The ad says 'no returns', but technically since I never received what I paid for, I think this is a different situation. We'll see. On the plus side, the one I received did have a refurbished card reader and they did a fine job. Most never bother to lube the worm gear and you get a lot of noise. This one is whisper quiet, just like the ones I do.

[John Garza (3665)]

Good news is the eBay seller offered a FULL refund. The bad news is he sold the pristine Singapore 67 to someone else. I think it was an honest mistake, he just grabbed the wrong calculator. The charger I received was a Singapore model. I told him to just send $50 to cover my time for disassembling and cleaning the unit. I'll use it as a backup. You can never have enough backups, right?

[polbit]

Other than waisting your time and energy, you really can't loose much as a buyer, as eBay will let you return pretty much everything, no matter what the seller states as a policy.

[Boub65]

I would add :
* no answers to your questions

You have two types of sellers (regarding questions) :
- one type that does not really know what info is important for buyer (screen on, battery compartment picture, etc...) and they will reply to your questions often with complementary pictures or infos
- one type that knows well the (bad) state of the calculator, hides informations and won't answer your questions

[Boub65]

(01-29-2023 10:11 AM)polbit Wrote:  Other than waisting your time and energy, you really can't loose much as a buyer, as eBay will let you return pretty much everything, no matter what the seller states as a policy.

Only true for US buyers...
We, international buyers, have to pay high shipping rates, custom taxes and VAT, and if we have to return the goods re-custom taxes and re-high shipping rates...
So we better be sure of what we buy even if we are somewhat protected (and only on the goods amount)... absolutely not a waste of time neither energy neither $$$...

[BruceH]

I'd add "blurry pictures" to the list. Every man and his dog has a smart phone capable of taking in-focus, multi-megapixel photos these days yet there are still eBay sellers who seem to be using a 360 pixel resolution webcam that was state-of-the-art in 1991.

[John Garza (3665)]

Add to that the 'dusty' photos. The seller doesn't bother to dust the machine with a soft brush. SO you can't tell a fleck of dust or a hair from a nick or a scratch. Since the machines are collectible, they should be treated with care and attention to detail.

[Maximilian Hohmann]

(01-31-2023 03:05 PM)John Garza (3665) Wrote:  Since the machines are collectible, they should be treated with care and attention to detail.

They are collectibles to our small group of nerds ;-) For the rest of the population they were commodities for as long as they were useful and thereafter pieces of electronic junk.

[Guenter Schink]

(01-31-2023 03:13 PM)Maximilian Hohmann Wrote:  

(01-31-2023 03:05 PM)John Garza (3665) Wrote:  Since the machines are collectible, they should be treated with care and attention to detail.

They are collectibles to our small group of nerds ;-) For the rest of the population they were commodities for as long as they were useful and thereafter pieces of electronic junk.

Re: "Nerds":
When I passed US immigration the last times for the HHC at San José, Reno and Nashville, I obviously found a way to relax the conversation with the immigration officer.

Officer: "What's the purpose of your visit? Leisure or business?"
I : "Well, we are a bunch of nerds, collect...."
Officer: "Thanks, go ahead and have a nice day!"

Seems to work

Günter

[rprosperi]

(01-31-2023 08:15 PM)Guenter Schink Wrote:  Re: "Nerds":
When I passed US immigration the last times for the HHC at San José, Reno and Nashville, I obviously found a way to relax the conversation with the immigration officer.

Officer: "What's the purpose of your visit? Leisure or business?"
I : "Well, we are a bunch of nerds, collect...."
Officer: "Thanks, go ahead and have a nice day!"

Seems to work

Günter

Great story Günter, made me laugh. Thanks!

[BruceH]

(02-01-2023 02:36 AM)rprosperi Wrote:  

(01-31-2023 08:15 PM)Guenter Schink Wrote:  Re: "Nerds":
When I passed US immigration the last times for the HHC at San José, Reno and Nashville, I obviously found a way to relax the conversation with the immigration officer.

Officer: "What's the purpose of your visit? Leisure or business?"
I : "Well, we are a bunch of nerds, collect...."
Officer: "Thanks, go ahead and have a nice day!"

Seems to work

Günter

Great story Günter, made me laugh. Thanks!

And I just say "I'm with him" :-)

[akpoff]

Good thread. Here are few more to be aware of:

1) 3D-printed parts,
2) Scanned or OEM manuals and software on non-OEM CDs,
3) "Refurbished" manuals meaning "I printed and bound it myself",
4) Box-only listings.

That's not to say these are bad listing types, but in the hands of new sellers, or the unscrupulous, they can lead to disappointment. Caveat emptor indeed!

Cheers,

--Aaron

[Eric Rechlin]

(02-09-2023 01:06 AM)akpoff Wrote:  Good thread. Here are few more to be aware of:

3) "Refurbished" manuals meaning "I printed and bound it myself",

That's true. There are SO MANY listings on eBay of "refurbished" manuals that are just printouts of very poor quality scans. I feel sorry for anyone who buys those. And the seller had to go to a lot of effort to print and bind them, too.

[AndiGer]

Currently there is a guy on ebay selling many spiral bound printouts of manuals.
When I first realized my thought was:
Ey, he bought the USB from hpmuseum.org - or even downloaded for free from Eric - and is trying to make gold from it.