PILBox with HPPortablePlus

[Hiwi]

I am using the PILbox with my PortablePlus an this works fine.
I am using it for backup userdata, memos, worksheets
I am using jeffs 1MB data images.

Now i like to install the Turboassembler & MSword 2.0, I have already done the setup with dosbox.
I want to install the final directory to the edisk to test everything before i will burn it into an eprom.

I am used to transfer files between PC and Lif/dat disks for the HP75 with HPdir.exe.
Unfortunately hpdir does not support MSDOS or the 1MB disks.
How can i transfer the files? I could transfer with Kermit but there must be a solution with PILBox.

Ralf

[Martin Hepperle]

Ralf,

you can use DosBox-X to create and manipulate MS-DOS compatible disk images.
*.IMA files are simple linear images.

DosBox is also handy for writing programs before transferring them to other systems like the Portable.


Martin

[Hiwi]

Thank you Martin i didn' know that.

I found imgmount. The special DOS files from J.Garnier have the suffix ".DAT" but this is as far as I know just for compatibility. They are simple images.

I will try it out.

Ralf

[Hiwi]

It is working with the the 1mb Disktemplate from J. Garnier.
it is possible to mount this in dosbox with imgmount a: HDRV01PPT.DAT -t floppy
Copy files to the image and mout this in ilPer.
I was able to transfer tasm turbo c and forth to the PPLUS

There are some HP150 programs (Cardfile, Fortran, Basic, Word150) that you can download from the hpmuseum. They work on HP110/PortablePlus.
These files are TD0 files, 3.5" imagefiles SS/DD. (OR DS/DD ???)
I have all the tools and i am able to convert the TD0 files to IMA oder HPI, but i think these formats are not supported by ILPer. Dosbox imgmount can mount 720k but the images are empty, so it does not work.
Any suggestions what to test?
Ralf

[Hiwi]

The HP110/HP150 disks are marked SS/DS, thsi is not supported by the Dosbox :-(

[Martin Hepperle]

Ralf,

many of the programs are standard MS-DOS programs, which are not depending on the HP hardware. For example, the early Microsoft Pascal or Fortran versions, MS-DOS (not PC-DOS) Pascal up to 3.01 or the Lattice C compilers.
All these programs work because they use plain MS-DOS function calls and no calls into the ROM-BIOS. If they use cursor positioning (e.g. Turbo Pascal) they use escape sequences which are configurable by the user. Most of these programs have their roots in CP/M.

Some programs have been adapted for the screens and the BIOS of the HP-150, Portable or Portable Plus, for example GWBASIC/110/110+/150 or Wordstar/150.

The usual HP 110 files use early MS-DOS 2.1 formats. Not all of the current MS-DOS capable tools support all of the early MS-DOS formats.

So my procedure would be
1) prepare an empty, ILPER compatible disk image
2) extract individual files from the TD0->IMG converted image.
3) copy these individual files to the ILPER disk image
4) watch for file size in relation to EPROM size (64...128kB).

You have to take into account, that some/most of the TD0 small disk images contain "bogus" sectors #17 or 128 bytes (all proper sectors have 256 bytes). So when going from TD0 to IMG one has to skip/remove these sectors #17.

A good tool to look at the disk image is to open the *.TD0 file in HxCFloppyEmulator and look at the disk/sector map. Here you can clearly see the small and large sectors as well as the tracks used for data. HxCFloppyEmulator can also export the data to a raw, linear image file (still including the 128 byte sector #17).

If you are interested in specific TD0 disks, I can try to extract the individual files and post them here in from of a ZIP archive.

Martin

[Dave Frederickson]

I use OSFMount for manipulating DOS image files for use with the Portable PLUS and the PILBOX.
https://www.osforensics.com/tools/mount-...mages.html

[Hiwi]

Hi Dave,
thank you for the reply. I tried already several image reader. The HxCFloppyEmulator can read the TDO files and convert and export them to IMG format. As Martin mentioned there are many files from the HPMuseum which have unusal sectors at #17 and others.

I could delete them and e.g. the Basic/100 TDO files looks ok without errors. But I can't mount them in the dos box, and even the HxCFloppyEmulator can not read the FAT correctly.

This is a problem with the unusual format 3.5" SS/DS (270kB ?) i suppose.

I tried many options and i can mount the IMG files with ILPER. The PortablePlus can read the FAT and list the files! And copy them to its a: or c: disk, but the content is rubbish.

ILPER does not support this format. So there is no solution to get the files on the HP Portable.

A HP150 with a physical drive could work, but i have no. I think the program teledisk can copy TD0 files to physical drives.

I am looking for MSWord 1.1 , Basic and Fortran for the HP110. These files are available as free download, but only in TDO format.

Ralf

[J-F Garnier]

(01-30-2024 02:40 PM)Hiwi Wrote:  I am looking for MSWord 1.1 , Basic and Fortran for the HP110. These files are available as free download, but only in TDO format.

You can find Basic and Fortran in disc images ready for ILPer here: Portable PLUS Programs
but now we need to ask for permission to download.

J-F

[Hiwi]

Hi J-F,
perfect i sent him a message to get access. Hope this works.
Ralf

[Dave Frederickson]

It's a Google thing. Most of the programs are from J-F's site, anyways.

[Martin Hepperle]

I have taken the *.TD0 file for MS-Word from the Hpmuseum.net site, converted it as described above by HxCFloppyEmulator, removed the sector #17 and extracted the files from the resulting MS-DOS image file (which should also be useable with a PIL-Box setup).

The files look o.k., but I have not tried them - at last WORD.COM did not work in DOSBox-X, but this does not mean that it does not run on the HP 150.
I am not sure whether it would also work on a HP 110, or Portable Plus as the BIOS of these is very different from the HP 150.

I have also attached picture of the sectors and tracks in the *.TD0 image file which shows the short sector #17 with 128 bytes in contrast to the standard HP length of 256 bytes. [edit: removed due to space limit]

Martin

The following text was produced by one of my small tools for decoding MS-DOS images and shows some details and a directory of the individual files.

Code:


MS-DOS Boot Record
==================
Note: No boot sector signature found. 0xFFFF

Offset    Content      Comment
------    ---------    -------------------------------
0000    0xEB 0x1C 0x90    probably DOS 3.x or higher or DOS 1.x.
0003    "HP150   "    OEM name
000B         256    Bytes per Sector
000D           4    Sectors per Cluster
000E           2    Number of Reserved Sectors
0010           2    Number of File Allocation Tables
0011         128    Maximum Number of Entries in Root Directory
0013        1056    Total Number of Logical Sectors
0015        0xFA    Media Descriptor Byte (maybe HP-150)
0016           3    Number of Sectors per FAT
0018          16    Number of Sectors per Track
001A           2    Number of Heads
001C           0    Number of Hidden Sectors
Standard Boot Parameter Block, pre DOS 4.0
Derived Information:
    Number of Cylinders          33    -
    Size of one Cluster        1024    bytes
    Total Capacity           270336    Bytes    (264 KB)
    Usable Data Capacity      264192    Bytes    (258 KB)
    Size of one FAT            768    0x0300    Bytes
    Size of Root Directory         4096    0x1000    Bytes
    FAT 1 starts at offset         512    0x0200
    FAT 2 starts at offset        1280    0x0500
    Dir. starts at offset        2048    0x0800
    Data starts at offset        6144    0x1800
    Max. Cluster Number         512
Reading File Allocation Table 1
- 12-bit FAT read successfully.
- FAT ID = FF
Reading File Allocation Table 2
- 12-bit FAT read successfully.
- FAT ID = FF
Comparing FAT1 and FAT2: FATs are identical.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No.    File Name    Attribute     Start    Length    Date          Time      
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 1    WORD    .COM    0x20(A)           2     10496    25.10.1984    12:00:00
 2    MW      .DAT    0x20(A)          13     16262    25.10.1984    12:00:00
 3    MW      .COD    0x20(A)          29     46544    25.10.1984    12:00:00
 4    MW      .PGM    0x20(A)          75     72502    25.10.1984    12:00:00
 5    MW      .HLP    0x20(A)         146     56392    25.10.1984    12:00:00
 6    MW      .INI    0x20(A)         202        42    25.10.1984    12:00:00
 7    TTY     .PRD    0x20(A)         203       820    25.10.1984    12:00:00
 8    ARTICLE .STY    0x20(A)         204      1024    25.10.1984    12:00:00
 9    DEFAULT .STY    0x20(A)         205       640    25.10.1984    12:00:00
10    DRAFT   .STY    0x20(A)         206      1024    25.10.1984    12:00:00
11    STORY   .STY    0x20(A)         207       768    25.10.1984    12:00:00
12    EXAMPLE .DOC    0x20(A)         208      4352    25.10.1984    12:00:00
13    MW164000.TMP    0x20(A)         215      1024    03.02.1983    12:15:16
14    PAM2    .VOL    0x22(HA)        214       768    03.02.1983    12:13:25
15    RM$     .VOL    0x22(HA)        213       192    03.02.1983    12:13:24
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Hiwi]

Hi Martin,
thank you i will try it out.
Did you delete the Track 17 with HxCFloppyEmulator?
I was uncertain how to do this. Deleting or filling up to 256 bytes.

Ralf

[Martin Hepperle]

Ralf,

I used a primitive Python script - if I understand it correctly, HxCFloppyEmulator only allows to delete complete tracks (and do many other modifications).

Martin

Code:


import os

def filterSector17(name):
    fIn = open(name,'rb')
    fOut = open(name+'.bin','wb')

    # we could also use stat to find file length
    fIn.seek(0,os.SEEK_END)
    len = fIn.tell()
    fIn.seek(0,os.SEEK_SET)

    for t in range(0,100):
        # copy 16 good sectors of 256 bytes
        for s in range(0,16):
            print(t,s)
            b = fIn.read(256)
            fOut.write(b)
        # skip bogus sector of 128 bytes
        b = fIn.read(128)
        # end of file?
        if fIn.tell() >= len:
            print('Done')
            break

    fIn.close()
    fOut.close()



if __name__ == '__main__':
    # convert the raw image file - will create a file 'MSWORD15_TD0.img.bin'
    filterSector17('MSWORD15_TD0.img')

[J-F Garnier]

I checked on my Portable Plus, this Word version (for the 150?) doesn't work and just hangs the machine.

Word was provided as a ROM for the Portable Plus.

J-F

[Dave Frederickson]

(02-01-2024 04:02 PM)J-F Garnier Wrote:  I checked on my Portable Plus, this Word version (for the 150?) doesn't work and just hangs the machine.

Word was provided as a ROM for the Portable Plus.

Strange. I believe there are specific installation instructions for the Portable PLUS in the manual.

Anyway, in the 1987 HP Catalog, p. 57, Microsoft WORD is listed as product number HP 45474D. The "D" indicating that the product is for the Touchscreen II and Portable PLUS.

HP 45549K is MS WORD Option 400, "K" indicating that the product is for the Portable PLUS (only) and Option 400 indicating that it's a ROM.

[J-F Garnier]

(02-01-2024 06:04 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  

(02-01-2024 04:02 PM)J-F Garnier Wrote:  I checked on my Portable Plus, this Word version (for the 150?) doesn't work and just hangs the machine.

Strange. I believe there are specific installation instructions for the Portable PLUS in the manual.

Anyway, in the 1987 HP Catalog, p. 57, Microsoft WORD is listed as product number HP 45474D. The "D" indicating that the product is for the Touchscreen II and Portable PLUS.

Indeed, in the User Manual for the HP 45474 package, there is an installation procedure but for the Portable, not the Portable Plus. The procedure suggests to use the install menu in the PAM screen, but it doesn't appear on the Portable Plus (there is no .mnu file actually).

J-F

[Dave Frederickson]

(02-01-2024 07:29 PM)J-F Garnier Wrote:  

(02-01-2024 06:04 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  Strange. I believe there are specific installation instructions for the Portable PLUS in the manual.

Anyway, in the 1987 HP Catalog, p. 57, Microsoft WORD is listed as product number HP 45474D. The "D" indicating that the product is for the Touchscreen II and Portable PLUS.

Indeed, in the User Manual for the HP 45474 package, there is an installation procedure but for the Portable, not the Portable Plus. The procedure suggests to use the install menu in the PAM screen, but it doesn't appear on the Portable Plus (there is no .mnu file actually).

J-F

The date on the manual is Oct 84. The Portable PLUS was not introduced until 1985. I suggest that the installation procedures are the same or there's a supplement to the manual which we don't have.

Are we sure the .td0 image we have is a Master Disc and not an installed copy?

[Martin Hepperle]

To me, the existence of the TMP file suggests that the files were copied from a disk where the program had already been used. So it is quite possible that it is an installed copy.
But I also used DOS DEBUG to step through the program and after some legal code and subroutine calls it runs into some region which is data (zeroes). So the image may be corrupt.
Some of the files (e.g. the PAM related and the *.STY files look o.k. when I examine them with a hex editor. Also the FATs were ok and even matching (which is not always the case).

So far, I did not try to create a real diskette, because for these machines I would prefer WordStar anyway over these early versions of Word.
I can try writing the *.TD0 to a real disk and run it on the HP-150.

Martin

[J-F Garnier]

(02-02-2024 08:13 AM)Martin Hepperle Wrote:  To me, the existence of the TMP file suggests that the files were copied from a disk where the program had already been used. So it is quite possible that it is an installed copy.

Yes, that's very possible. The files above shows that the TMP and VOL files have a different timestamp, whereas the other files have all the same timestamp in line with the documentation date (oct.84).

We can compare with the content of the GWBasic disk, that has a pam menu for installation, and three versions of GWBasic, I guess for the 150, Portable and Portable Plus.
I checked that the first exe doesn't run on the Portable Plus, but the two others (in the subfolders) do :

Code:

--a---      69.520   4-09-86  11h36   c:\gwbasic.exe
--a---          53  11-09-86  15h11   c:\gwbasic.in$
--a---          78   1-05-85  15h59   c:\gwbasic.ir$
--a---       2.893   1-03-85  14h05   c:\installp.com
--a---          39  26-07-84  12h18   c:\pam.mnu
--a---       1.153   1-03-85   9h19   c:\remove.com
--a---      65.680  29-08-84  14h48   c:\hp110\gwbasic.exe
--a---      64.100  25-06-86  12h08   c:\hp711\gwbasic.exe

HP711 very likely identifies the Portable Plus, ref. HP-45711A.

J-F