RPN83P: RPN calculator for TI-83+ TI-84+ inspired by HP-42S

[bxparks]

(11-11-2024 06:15 PM)Liamtoh Resu Wrote:  "Some menu groups can be accessed quickly through dedicated keys on the TI calculator which happen to have the same label as the menu item:

MODE: bound to ROOT > MODE
STAT: bound to ROOT > STAT
MATH: repurposed to be HOME (aka ROOT)
"

Should the STAT group be worded ?
STAT: bound to ROOT > [down arrow] > STAT

That's not how a hierarchical menu system or file system is normally understood. Consider the following tree of files:

Code:

FolderA
|-- itemA1
|-- itemA2
`-- FolderB
    |-- itemB1
    |-- itemB2
    `-- FolderC
        `-- itemC1

To refer to itemC1 using its full path, one would write:

FolderA > FolderB > FolderC >itemC1

not

FolderA > down > down > FolderB > down > down > FolderC > itemC1

In the file hierarchy above, each line contains only one item or folder. In RPN83P, each line can hold up to 5 items or folders. So visually, it looks like:

Code:

FolderA
|- itemA1 itemA2 itemA3 itemA4 itemA5
|- itemA6 FolderB itemA8 itemA9 itemA10
              |- itemB1 itemB2 itemB3 itemB4 itemB5
              |- itemB6 FolderC
                            | itemC1

To refer to itemC1, it is still "FolderA > FolderB > FolderC > itemC1", even when 5 items of each folder are displayed per row, instead of a single item per row.

Does my Menu Hierarchy diagram help in any way? Are you having a similar difficulty with the menu system on the HP-42S/Free42? Because RPN83P basically implements the same system.

[bxparks]

(11-11-2024 10:23 PM)spiff72 Wrote:  No worries at all - I had just found that nSTK was my preferred mode on my DM42 when I had it "stock". My personal history with HP calcs was ownership of an HP48SX in college, and I later bought a 50g when I was well out of college. As a result, RPL is what I am most familiar with. I'm used to hitting the DROP key and having the stack drop down as each level is removed.

I have been running DB48x on my DM42 to bring back that familiarity with RPL.

Just to make sure that I understand the appeal of NSTK:
* Is it because the stack size is "infinite" (where "infinite" just means "large")?
* Or is it because when you clear the stack, the stack actually collapses to nothing, instead of just having all of its slots cleared to 0.0?

Implementing an RPL-flavored stack would be far easier if the requirement for an "infinite" stack size was removed, in favor of a relatively small maximum stack size (e.g. 16, 32, 64). But regardless, it is unlikely that RPN83P would gain an RPL-flavored stack. There are too many other features which are higher priority.

[Liamtoh Resu]

STAT and Menu and Folders, (oh my)

To get to the STAT item from any where I have to press [MATH] and then press the
[down arrows] and then the [STAT] item appears on the menu bar.

I do not use the Free42 too much.

I need to read (and re-read) your documentation more carefully.

The literature.hpcalc.org additionally has "An Easy Course in Using the HP-42S".

I appreciate the time it took for your reply to my last post.

I uses direcfory trees in Win and MX GNU/LINUX.
When navigating directory trees, I usually use a dual-plane file manager.

I find your RPN83P app very useful for my limited calculator needs.

For more useage: "When the student is ready the teacher (calculator function)
will appear" (To paraphrase an old expression).

Regards

[spiff72]

(11-11-2024 11:46 PM)bxparks Wrote:  

(11-11-2024 10:23 PM)spiff72 Wrote:  No worries at all - I had just found that nSTK was my preferred mode on my DM42 when I had it "stock". My personal history with HP calcs was ownership of an HP48SX in college, and I later bought a 50g when I was well out of college. As a result, RPL is what I am most familiar with. I'm used to hitting the DROP key and having the stack drop down as each level is removed.

I have been running DB48x on my DM42 to bring back that familiarity with RPL.

Just to make sure that I understand the appeal of NSTK:
* Is it because the stack size is "infinite" (where "infinite" just means "large")?
* Or is it because when you clear the stack, the stack actually collapses to nothing, instead of just having all of its slots cleared to 0.0?

Implementing an RPL-flavored stack would be far easier if the requirement for an "infinite" stack size was removed, in favor of a relatively small maximum stack size (e.g. 16, 32, 64). But regardless, it is unlikely that RPN83P would gain an RPL-flavored stack. There are too many other features which are higher priority.

I'm referencing the "Plus42" app for iOS as I respond to this, since my DM42 is currently loaded with DB48x...

The behavior that I like about nSTK mode is that if you enter multiple items on the stack without any other operations (4 ENTER 3 ENTER 2 ENTER 1 ENTER), and then press the drop key, the "1" on the first level is dropped, and all the other items on the stack drop down, placing "2" in the first level.

In 4STK mode, the above operations would drop the 1 from the X level, making it zero, but the other levels remain in their places.

Does that make sense? If this could be done with a "large" stack level (maybe 10-20?), this would be ideal for me.

Another suggestion I would have is to add a conversion in the UNITS menu similar to the in-cm section, but for mm and inches. As an engineer, I think in mm mostly - rarely in cm.

[Liamtoh Resu]

I found a link at the cemetech.net site which a download zip file about 1.6M.

The zip file has document files in pdf format.

The link is:

https://www.cemetech.net/downloads/files/2376/x3097

The files are dated July 19th, 2024.

The master zip file,abiyt 2,2MB, from bxparks site contain files that are dated Nov 10, 2024.

Regards.

[bxparks]

(11-15-2024 11:52 PM)Liamtoh Resu Wrote:  I found a link at the cemetech.net site which a download zip file about 1.6M.

The zip file has document files in pdf format.

The link is:

https://www.cemetech.net/downloads/files/2376/x3097

The files are dated July 19th, 2024.

The master zip file,abiyt 2,2MB, from bxparks site contain files that are dated Nov 10, 2024.

The Cemetech files and the GitHub release files (https://github.com/bxparks/rpn83p/releases) are identical. I uploaded both of them. I'm not sure what you mean by "master zip file".

[Liamtoh Resu]

The "master zip file is" rpn83p-develop.zip

I downloaded it again tonight. There are documents there in a "md" format, which seem to
be regular ASCII files.

The documents in pdf format are very user friendly.

Regards

[bxparks]

(11-12-2024 02:25 PM)spiff72 Wrote:  The behavior that I like about nSTK mode is that if you enter multiple items on the stack without any other operations (4 ENTER 3 ENTER 2 ENTER 1 ENTER), and then press the drop key, the "1" on the first level is dropped, and all the other items on the stack drop down, placing "2" in the first level.

In 4STK mode, the above operations would drop the 1 from the X level, making it zero, but the other levels remain in their places.

Does that make sense? If this could be done with a "large" stack level (maybe 10-20?), this would be ideal for me.

I think I know what you mean: Instead of a fixed-size RPN stack, you want an RPL-stack which grows and shrinks dynamically as needed. In terms of UI, this means that when you clear (or consume) a stack element, it gets replaced with a blank entry instead of 0.0000. It also means that when the RPL-stack is empty, a DEL operation results in a "DROP Error: Too Few Arguments", instead of doing nothing, which is something that has confused countless RPL learners.

If you only need a maximum of 10-20 stack levels, this probably isn't too difficult. But as I wrote earlier, it is not high on my priority list since RPN83P is aimed for RPN fans not RPL users. (I admit that I am biased against RPL, because my HP-50g is the only calculator that I own that I actively dislike.)

(11-12-2024 02:25 PM)spiff72 Wrote:  Another suggestion I would have is to add a conversion in the UNITS menu similar to the in-cm section, but for mm and inches. As an engineer, I think in mm mostly - rarely in cm.

An inch<->mm conversion feature is easy. The problem is the menu UI. In the current system, it would be ambiguous whether the '>in' soft menu label meant "mm->inch" or "cm->inch". With only 4 characters available in the menu label, I cannot think of any way to disambiguate.

I admit that the UNIT conversion of RPN83P is nowhere as sophisticated as some of more advanced HP calculators (e.g. HP-50g, Plus42). My goal was to be somewhere in the range of an HP-32sii calculator, which provides only 8 unit conversions, so I think I have surpassed at least the 32sii.

I do appreciate the feedback and suggestions. There are so many features that could go into RPN83P, and I have limited free time (currently almost none), so I apologize in advance if I cannot implement your favorite feature.

[bxparks]

(11-16-2024 12:26 AM)Liamtoh Resu Wrote:  The "master zip file is" rpn83p-develop.zip

I downloaded it again tonight. There are documents there in a "md" format, which seem to
be regular ASCII files.

The documents in pdf format are very user friendly.

Can you be precise about which files you are referring to? Where is this "rpn83p-develop.zip" file? Why not use the " rpn83p.zip" file on the GitHub Releases page? With regards to documents, I generally refer people to the versions on GitHub because they contain the latest typo and grammar corrections. The release zip files will of course contain the documents in PDF format which are snapshots at the time the release was created.

[Liamtoh Resu]

I found the file rpn83p.zip at https://github.com/bxparks/rpn83p/releases
That zip file contains the pdf files which I had previously overlooked.


I found the file rpn83p-develop.zip at https://github.com/bxparks/rpn83p
I clicked on the green code button and clicked on the Download zip.
(There is a hyphen in the name rather then an underscore.)

I guess I needed some more C0FFEE hexadecimal (12648430 decimal).

Regards.

[gentzel]

"rpn83p-develop.zip" is the result of downloading the develop branch in GitHub.

[bxparks]

(11-16-2024 01:51 AM)Liamtoh Resu Wrote:  I found the file rpn83p.zip at https://github.com/bxparks/rpn83p/releases
That zip file contains the pdf files which I had previously overlooked.

I noticed that there is no explanation of that file, so I added this blurb to the USER_GUIDE.md:

"Each release in the GitHub Releases section also contains an rpn83p.zip release artifact file that holds the same rpn83p.8xk binary file and a copy of the various user-facing Markdown files converted to PDF format. The zip file is intended for third party software archive sites such as ticalc.org or cemetech.net."

(11-16-2024 01:51 AM)Liamtoh Resu Wrote:  I found the file rpn83p-develop.zip at https://github.com/bxparks/rpn83p
I clicked on the green code button and clicked on the Download zip.
(There is a hyphen in the name rather then an underscore.)

Ah, I've been using GitHub for YEARS and never noticed that functionality. Not sure why someone would use that over 'git clone', but I guess someone needs it.