HP 35s firmware defect confirmation

[MarkHaysHarris777]

Greetings,

My HP35s arrived in the mails a couple of weeks ago; CNA44716YZ

I believe that means it was in a lot produced on week 47 of 2014; if anyone can help me with the rest of the codes there I would appreciate it.

At any rate, I can confirm for those wondering that the firmware still shows revision 0 with a date of 2007; also, this unit has exhibited the documented quirks for which this little jewel is now famous, or, infamous.

All that aside, as appalling as it is that HP would let this product out the door without some solid testing (a senior in high school could find its bug list in about two days of normal use), I must say-- I love it !

I am afraid that it may be their (HP) last RPN non-graphing calculator. Not because RPN is dead-- far from it; because dedicated calculators are going to be a thing of the past across the boards soon (its happening before our eyes). So, grab one while they still last.

Can anyone confirm or deny whether there are any valid rumors to the effect that HP will be re-releasing the 35s with a firmware update?

Great day folks, happy Monday !

[Gerald H]

Sadly the info in the serial number is opaque to me.

I confirm there will be no update that fixes any of the generally recognised bugs.

[Thomas Radtke]

(01-19-2015 09:25 PM)MarkHaysHarris777 Wrote:  Can anyone confirm or deny whether there are any valid rumors to the effect that HP will be re-releasing the 35s with a firmware update?

As with the 33s, the firmware wasn't written at HP but outsourced to Kinpo. Unlike the 33s, which underwent some changes (bugfixes, modified LCD), the 35s seems to be set in stone. It might be too successful commercially to modify it ;-(.

[Ángel Martin]

(01-19-2015 09:25 PM)MarkHaysHarris777 Wrote:  My HP35s arrived in the mails a couple of weeks ago; CNA44716YZ

I believe that means it was in a lot produced on week 47 of 2014; if anyone can help me with the rest of the codes there I would appreciate it.

CNA probably stands for "China" - just an educated guess...

[Jeff O.]

(01-19-2015 09:25 PM)MarkHaysHarris777 Wrote:  Greetings,

My HP35s arrived in the mails a couple of weeks ago; CNA44716YZ

I believe that means it was in a lot produced on week 47 of 2014; if anyone can help me with the rest of the codes there I would appreciate it.

As Angel indicated, the "CNA" part indicates country of manufacture. Actually seems to indicate the factory, as it appears that HP uses two different factories in China, "CNA" and "4CY". My Prime and a couple of 30bs at hand were manufactured by the "4CY" factory, my 10bII+ and my (and your) 35s by the "CNA" factory. According to post no. 5 in this thread, 4CY = Inventec Appliance, and CNA = Kinpo Electronics.

Regarding the next three digits (447), those are indeed supposed to be year (since the most recent decade year) and week. The final four (16YZ) are just the individual sequence or unit number. I don’t know if they use a 36 character set (number 0-10 and letters A-Z) for 1,679,616 possible individual unit identifiers with the four character code, or if they restrict the possible combinations.

I have admit to being surprised that your unit seems to have been manufactured sometime around or after the end of November, 2014. I guess that means that sales of the 35s are fairly decent since they aren’t selling units made in 2012 or something and apparently just made a new batch. (On a side note, I for one have never been convinced that the so-called “week number” indicates the exact week of manufacture. I always assumed that it may indicate the week that production began of a model or version, then they continued to use that week number until they ran out of sequence numbers (i.e., up to 1,679,916 units using the 4 character code, or 99,999 units using the old five-digit numbering sequence, assuming no unit no. 00000), or there was some change or update to the model (e.g. some physical or software change.) So all of the “1147A” HP-35 units were not made in the 47th week of 1971, that's just when they started production. But I have no proof of this theory and could certainly be wrong.)

(01-19-2015 09:25 PM)MarkHaysHarris777 Wrote:  Can anyone confirm or deny whether there are any valid rumors to the effect that HP will be re-releasing the 35s with a firmware update?

I have no special knowledge, but as far as I can see, any and all talk of a re-release with firmware update has always been more wishful thinking than rumor. The 35s was introduced in 2007, and its shortcomings were quickly identified. If it were going to be updated, it seems like it would have been updated long ago. I don't think anyone seriously expects it to be updated today. From what I have heard and read, the technology used is obsolete, so a complete physical and electronic redesign would be required. Does anyone think that the potential market would justify such an expenditure by HP? So it will likely stand as-is as the last in the line of the non-graphing, "classic RPN*" scientific calculators that began in 1972 with the HP-35. It does have some issues, but many do not affect its day-to-day usability, so like you, many users actually like it. So as you say, perhaps it would be wise to get one while you can.

* - Classic RPN, defined by me as a four level stack, where you key values directly into the X stack level, not into an entry buffer, and pressing ENTER pushes it into Y, with stack lift disabled. I.e. with a stack full of zeroes, keying in 4, ENTER, + yields 8, not 4.

[MarkHaysHarris777]

(01-21-2015 06:16 PM)Jeff O. Wrote:  I don't think anyone seriously expects it to be updated today. From what I have heard and read, the technology used is obsolete, so a complete physical and electronic redesign would be required. Does anyone think that the potential market would justify such an expenditure by HP? So it will likely stand as-is as the last in the line of the non-graphing, "classic RPN*" scientific calculators that began in 1972 with the HP-35.

I tend to agree completely. I honestly think that the answer to the apparent continued new sales (and I too was surprised) is the FE and PE exam in the United States. The HP35s is the most powerful calc permitted on the exam (at least through 2015) and *only* one of two programable calcs permitted on the exam at all (the other being the 33s predecessor).

There seems to be a high demand for the unit (quirks and all) and there are apparently some OEM re-marketers out there hand-keying FE and PE equations and algorithms into the 35s and then reselling them as a value add! While it seems unlikely that HP would reinvest in this platform (all things being equal) there does also seem to be a market driven factor that might mitigate those beliefs. I don't know...

PS I was surprised to find that the unit used an embedded 8502 core. My first personal computer in the home (VIC 20) used its 6502 predecessor. Looping is painfully slow on the 35s for integration and other iterative number crunching. I'm thinking the new model should be ARMed, and have a three line display for pretty print like the fx115; but of course be RPN and programable. I think there is a market for it considering the FE and PE.

PSS A calc like the WP34s (still have not played with one) would not be allowed on the FE because of its comm capabilities, flashable ROM, &c.

Thanks for your response. Nice to meet you; have a great day !

[Jeff O.]

(01-21-2015 07:44 PM)MarkHaysHarris777 Wrote:  I tend to agree completely. I honestly think that the answer to the apparent continued new sales (and I too was surprised) is the FE and PE exam in the United States. The HP35s is the most powerful calc permitted on the exam (at least through 2015) and *only* one of two programable calcs permitted on the exam at all (the other being the 33s predecessor).

Yes, the FE/PE/PS test factor probably helps the 35s sales quite a bit, although I expect that to diminish as RPN users die off.

(01-21-2015 07:44 PM)MarkHaysHarris777 Wrote:  ... I'm thinking the new model should be ARMed, and have a three line display for pretty print like the fx115; but of course be RPN and programable. I think there is a market for it considering the FE and PE.

Sounds great, but again, is the potential market worth it to HP? And even if they made a new model, to keep the NCEES approval for use on FE/PE/PS tests, it would not be allowed to have communication capability. This was considered one of the greatest weakness of the 35s.

(01-21-2015 07:44 PM)MarkHaysHarris777 Wrote:  Thanks for your response. Nice to meet you; have a great day !

You are welcome, nice to meet you too.