Prime crashes while deleting Home vars

[Offroad]

Hi all

Has anyone noticed this crash while using the emulator?

See attachment.

Thanks

[Han]

(01-30-2015 01:16 AM)Offroad Wrote:  Hi all

Has anyone noticed this crash while using the emulator?

See attachment.

Thanks

Can you share what you were doing prior to this crash? Also, what version of the virtual calculator are you using?

[Offroad]

(01-30-2015 08:03 PM)Han Wrote:  

(01-30-2015 01:16 AM)Offroad Wrote:  Hi all

Has anyone noticed this crash while using the emulator?

See attachment.

Thanks

Can you share what you were doing prior to this crash? Also, what version of the virtual calculator are you using?

Nothing really. I was actually reading the manual and then found out how to delete vars more easily using the MEM key. Everything was working fine with the cleaning til I got to this var named gh, after I clicked it, the emulator froze and then that error message popped up. After 3 tries I managed to delete it. Don't ask me about the Chinese characters. It's nunning the latest version!
Thanks

[Hlib]

(01-30-2015 01:16 AM)Offroad Wrote:  Hi all

Has anyone noticed this crash while using the emulator?

You didn't understand yet that HP isn't able to produce normal calculators any more? They lost the market in this segment. It isn't necessary to pay attention to any trifles.

[Han]

(01-30-2015 08:12 PM)Offroad Wrote:  Nothing really. I was actually reading the manual and then found out how to delete vars more easily using the MEM key. Everything was working fine with the cleaning til I got to this var named gh, after I clicked it, the emulator froze and then that error message popped up. After 3 tries I managed to delete it. Don't ask me about the Chinese characters. It's nunning the latest version!
Thanks

What I meant was something along the lines of ... running a program that modified lots of lists, or using the CAS to manipulate matrices, etc. In other words, what was the prime doing prior to you wanting to delete variables.

[Offroad]

Nothing. I opened it just to delete variables. Didn't want to use 'purge' as I was looking for something more handy. Before that I was testing very basic commands inside programs. The var named 'gh', if I remember correctly, was used to store the size of a {n,2} matrix. So it was actually a list with 2 elements.

[Han]

(01-31-2015 12:11 AM)Offroad Wrote:  Before that I was testing very basic commands inside programs. The var named 'gh', if I remember correctly, was used to store the size of a {n,2} matrix. So it was actually a list with 2 elements.

This was what I meant. I was simply interested in whether some of my past experiences were related to what you are reporting. Usually screenshots such as yours suggest some sort of memory corruption and in my past experiences they often happened when I was working with matrices and lists. However, it's been a long time since I have had any crashes such as yours on the emulator.

[ji3m]

It sure does crash. Random as well.
But they dont really go away.

If is succeed i turn the calculator ipoff. But they come back.

[ji3m]

The primes handling of variables is odd at best, demonic at worst.

If you create a variable JOE in the home window and use it in a program the program will name search the variable when run(very slow).
It also shows in vars under user vars.
If you then delete the variable with MEM mgr
and run the pgm you get an error.

BEFORE you delete it , however, you might then declare JOE in the program
itself (EXTERN JOE.

Now, strangely, it shows up in vars as BOTH a program variable as well as a user var.
But there is only one variable.

If you now go to the MEM mgr its listed as a user var with no clue as to what it is.

Now if yoy try to delete it one of two thins happens
(1) it gracefully refuses to delete it
(2) it crashes.

Even though it crashes the variable wont go away.

This is what happened to me trying speed up my large program once I realized what was happening.
The short story is dont attempt to delete variable which are declared in programs as export. You dont need or want to.

I bet all of this is true for the real calculator as well.

[cyrille de brébisson]

Hello,

Ho, I think that I am going to enjoy responding to this post :-)

> The primes handling of variables is odd at best, demonic at worst.
The first thing that comes to mind is:
MawHAHAHAH!

That being said, Prime is actually pretty logical, but it can take a while to remember ALL the actors in the market here so as not to shoot yourself int he foot.

Prime does try to cater to all, and this, in some ways, is what is causing the issue here. There is just too much.
Let us list ALL the types of variables available in Prime (setting aside the fully qualified forms for the moment), in order of precedence.

1) Current function call local variables. Gives access to ALL the LOCAL variables declared PRIOR to the current instruction in ALL the program blocks above us in the execution hierarchy (of this function), with name overlap if/as needed. This includes the function parameters.

2) build in home variables such as A or Z1

3) Current function's program global variables (can be export or not)

4.1) Current app build in variable/functions

4.2) Current app dynamic variables/functions (for example geometry 'variables', spreadsheet cells)...

4.3) Current app user variables (HVars)

4.4) Current app program exported variables

5) Program exported variables (all programs, scanned in the display order)

6) All BASE applications 'special' build ins that can be used without full qualification (F1 for example)

7) Home user variables

8) CAS variables and functions


Each of these 11 types of variables have a good reason to exist in the calculator, for various types of users, in various situations.
Of course, when you start mixing and matching the use with variables named in the same way... It looks devilish!


So, in your case, you created 2 JOE variables. One in a program, one in the home.
you do have 2 variables (which is why it shows up twice).
HOWEVER, since the program variable takes precedence OVER the home variable, you can ONLY access the program one (unless you use the HVars("name") syntax, which you can use to verify what I am saying).



As you can see, pretty simple/straightforward...
But I guess any sufficiently advanced order of precedence is indistinguishable from evil.

(Note, I, myself, had to look up the order!)

Regards, Cyrille

[ji3m]

Excellent answer. But why the crash .

I was trying to delete the unused hone vars when after i realized the ones in the program compile in but home vars seem to ve name lookups.
I dont know how to delete the duplicate ones in home vars.

[ji3m]

In case 1 you mention that names arw searched from the nested block outward.

this woul very nice but the following fails

EXPORT A ()
BEGIN
LOCAL B;
BEGIN <----- syntax error
LOCAL C;
.....
END;
.....
END;


So does it support block nesting or not?

[cyrille de brébisson]

Hello,

Yes, it does support block nesting, BUT you can not create an "anonymous" block like that...

Blocks are created when you use If Then else end, and other loop constructs...
Basically, IF THEN ELSE END is internally the
IFTE function which takes 2 or 3 arguments. A condition and 1/2 program blocks (Instruction Sequence in internal linguo).
same story for Loops and case statements...

Maybe I should add support for blocks. They can be useful every now and then (for exactly this reason, local locals)...

Cyrille