newRPL: [UPDATED April 27-2017] Firmware for testing available for download

[Claudio L.]

(11-14-2016 10:55 PM)Etienne Victoria Wrote:  Using SETLOCALE through menus, I expected the following:

Code:


",./:" SETLC

to yield Comma for decimal, dot for thousands, Slash for Fractions and : for Arg

Instead, I get "Invalid Locale string"

I'll experiment again as I must be doing something wrong.

Claudio, your newRPL project prompted me to purchase my first Hp-50g a couple of months ago and I've been using it with great pleasure, thanks for this !

Etienne.

This is a bug, thank you for reporting it. I'll investigate and fix.
PS: Fraction separator is the character that goes every 3 digits on the fractional part of a number, by default is a narrow space (try the various cases with On+Dot to see what I mean). Also, the argument separator is usually a comma, usually changes to a semicolon when the comma is the decimal dot or thousand separator, never seen a colon used for that, but why not...

[matthiaspaul]

(11-12-2016 06:42 PM)Helix Wrote:  I've drawn some virtual screenshots, and I think I got interesting results. I'll post them tomorrow.

http://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-723...64178.html

[Claudio L.]

(11-15-2016 10:50 PM)Claudio L. Wrote:  This is a bug, thank you for reporting it. I'll investigate and fix.

BTW, The updated ROM with the new look includes this fix, feel free to play with locale strings now, please report any anomalies.

[Claudio L.]

(11-14-2016 05:21 PM)Francois Lanciault Wrote:  The latest firmware is a big improvement!

Here are a few comments:

When the user choose to hide the second menu (ON-VAR long press), the setting goes back to dual menus when:

- The calculator is switch OFF-ON
- A help description of a menu item was viewed (long press on that item)

It would be nice if the "one menu" setting would survive the above events. The idea is that if the user choose to hide the second menu, he must have a good reason to do it (more stack visibility) and right now the setting is reset back to two menus too frenquently.

Good point. It should be more permanent.

(11-14-2016 05:21 PM)Francois Lanciault Wrote:  Also I have noticed there is a "back" menu item in the symbolic menu (currently empty beside the back item). It would be nice if a "back" item could be included in all menus/sub-menus. Sometimes the user just want to go back one level. Unless there is back button I don't know about? But even with a back button, a "back" menu item would be nice.

That was just a test, as the symbolic menu was still empty. The Units menu does include an item to go back to the top units menu. I'll have to think about how to implement a "back" menu key. It's an interesting concept, I'd rather have a back key than a back item on every single menu. I know the PREV key has been there since the 48, but wasn't that useful because it was an opposite of NXT, rather than going back to the parent menu.
Should be something like keeping a menu history of the last X menus displayed on each menu, then you can go back the way you came.

(11-14-2016 05:21 PM)Francois Lanciault Wrote:  Another small comment:

There is no help text for the ACK command

Thanks.

[Francois Lanciault]

(11-17-2016 04:07 PM)Claudio L. Wrote:  That was just a test, as the symbolic menu was still empty. The Units menu does include an item to go back to the top units menu. I'll have to think about how to implement a "back" menu key. It's an interesting concept, I'd rather have a back key than a back item on every single menu. I know the PREV key has been there since the 48, but wasn't that useful because it was an opposite of NXT, rather than going back to the parent menu.
Should be something like keeping a menu history of the last X menus displayed on each menu, then you can go back the way you came.

I think it would be useful, especially for the menus where the user need numerous different commands at different levels, like the "PRG" menu. Going back at root level every time is time consuming.

Francois

[Han]

(11-17-2016 06:22 PM)Francois Lanciault Wrote:  I think it would be useful, especially for the menus where the user need numerous different commands at different levels, like the "PRG" menu. Going back at root level every time is time consuming.

Francois

I am probably not remembering this correctly, but I think that the intended final design was to have one of the two menus play the role of submenus. That is, once PRG appears in one of the two menus, then pressing a shift key + PRG would load the submenu into the "other" menu. I don't know if it has been decided upon yet (how to quickly load a submenu onto the "other" menu row), but maybe Claudio has some comments on this.

[Claudio L.]

(11-18-2016 03:22 AM)Han Wrote:  

(11-17-2016 06:22 PM)Francois Lanciault Wrote:  I think it would be useful, especially for the menus where the user need numerous different commands at different levels, like the "PRG" menu. Going back at root level every time is time consuming.

Francois

I am probably not remembering this correctly, but I think that the intended final design was to have one of the two menus play the role of submenus. That is, once PRG appears in one of the two menus, then pressing a shift key + PRG would load the submenu into the "other" menu. I don't know if it has been decided upon yet (how to quickly load a submenu onto the "other" menu row), but maybe Claudio has some comments on this.

You have a good memory! Yes, the framework is in place, however in this first version of the main menu it was only done for Vars as a test (try it!). When using shift-hold+Vars in the main menu it will open it in the other one. This should be done for all menus in the main menu eventually.
It's done using RPL commands, so the user can create custom menus that operate in this way.

[Han]

Is anyone working on a NEWOB command (duplicates an existing object)?

[Bruno]

(11-18-2016 11:46 PM)Han Wrote:  Is anyone working on a NEWOB command (duplicates an existing object)?

To my knowledge no, but I think this command should be implemented inside lib65, and I'm already working on.
So your changes (If you want to implement it) may potentially conflict with my work.
Even if git could handle that, it could be fastidious.

But it's best to wait for Claudio to better answer your question

[Claudio L.]

Thanksgiving update! EDIT: For those outside the US, it's just another update!
A new ROM update. Like always, use the link in the first post of this thread.

A few annoyances were eliminated in this release, and quite a few new features were introduced:

* Submenus of the main menu can now be open in the "other" menu by using a shift. This allows to make good use of the 2 menu system.
* Stack menu was added
* Binary operations menu was added
* VERSION command was added
* Some refinements in the alarms
* The calculator now stays in the editor if turned off while editing text.
* Hiding the second menu is now permanent across OFF, error messages and command help, so the calculator can actually be used with a "classic" single menu, although you lose the status area annunciators and features like autocomplete.
* "Back" menu key is at UNDO (M). Use it with right-shift for the first menu, and right-shift-hold for the second menu. There's a 10 level menu UNDO.
As usual, please test and report! The first "official" ROM release (still Alpha grade, but official release) is planned by mid December, so we need to clean up bugs before then and need your help.

[Francois Lanciault]

Hi Claudio,

Just did the update, no problems.

All my variables were preserved, however my directories are gone. Not very stressfull as they were only test directories. I "think" all variables in those directories were preserved and transfered in the home directory­ but I am not sure.

Also couple of new variables magically apeared in "home" alongside my variable. They all look like system variables. Maybe they were ment to be hidden ? The variables are:

Locale - containing a list of item namely the string ".," and a series of numbers.
NumFmt - with a value of 1
.NNNNAAA - containing a list of integer

François

(11-24-2016 03:47 AM)Claudio L. Wrote:  Thanksgiving update! EDIT: For those outside the US, it's just another update!
A new ROM update. Like always, use the link in the first post of this thread.

A few annoyances were eliminated in this release, and quite a few new features were introduced:

* Submenus of the main menu can now be open in the "other" menu by using a shift. This allows to make good use of the 2 menu system.
* Stack menu was added
* Binary operations menu was added
* VERSION command was added
* Some refinements in the alarms
* The calculator now stays in the editor if turned off while editing text.
* Hiding the second menu is now permanent across OFF, error messages and command help, so the calculator can actually be used with a "classic" single menu, although you lose the status area annunciators and features like autocomplete.
* "Back" menu key is at UNDO (M). Use it with right-shift for the first menu, and right-shift-hold for the second menu. There's a 10 level menu UNDO.
As usual, please test and report! The first "official" ROM release (still Alpha grade, but official release) is planned by mid December, so we need to clean up bugs before then and need your help.

[Guenter Schink]

(11-24-2016 06:00 PM)Francois Lanciault Wrote:  Hi Claudio,

Just did the update, no problems.

All my variables were preserved, however my directories are gone. Not very stressfull as they were only test directories. I "think" all variables in those directories were preserved and transfered in the home directory­ but I am not sure.

Also couple of new variables magically apeared in "home" alongside my variable. They all look like system variables. Maybe they were ment to be hidden ? The variables are:

Locale - containing a list of item namely the string ".," and a series of numbers.
NumFmt - with a value of 1
.NNNNAAA - containing a list of integer

François

No problem with the update here either. I can't see however anything of what you described. Subdirectories are still there and the strange entries you experienced aren't visible here.

Günter

[Guenter Schink]

(11-24-2016 03:47 AM)Claudio L. Wrote:  Thanksgiving update! EDIT: For those outside the US, it's just another update!
A new ROM update. Like always, use the link in the first post of this thread.

A few annoyances were eliminated in this release, and quite a few new features were introduced:

* Submenus of the main menu can now be open in the "other" menu by using a shift. This allows to make good use of the 2 menu system.

shouldn't that be limited to one specific shift key? Perhaps the other shift can sometime be utilized for something else

Quote:* Stack menu was added

I would expect the stack menu to be invoked with an interactive stack. Up arrow?

Quote:* Binary operations menu was added
* VERSION command was added
* Some refinements in the alarms
* The calculator now stays in the editor if turned off while editing text.
* Hiding the second menu is now permanent across OFF, error messages and command help, so the calculator can actually be used with a "classic" single menu, although you lose the status area annunciators and features like autocomplete.
* "Back" menu key is at UNDO (M). Use it with right-shift for the first menu, and right-shift-hold for the second menu. There's a 10 level menu UNDO.

"Back" couldn't that be also used in the variables menu to go one level up? In parallel to the already implemented LS UP.

Günter

[Claudio L.]

(11-24-2016 06:00 PM)Francois Lanciault Wrote:  Hi Claudio,

Just did the update, no problems.

All my variables were preserved, however my directories are gone. Not very stressfull as they were only test directories. I "think" all variables in those directories were preserved and transfered in the home directory­ but I am not sure.

Also couple of new variables magically apeared in "home" alongside my variable. They all look like system variables. Maybe they were ment to be hidden ? The variables are:

Locale - containing a list of item namely the string ".," and a series of numbers.
NumFmt - with a value of 1
.NNNNAAA - containing a list of integer

François

That's not supposed to happen from the previous version but if your version was older it could, as there have been some significant under the hood changes. Once we do the first "official" release, things will be set in stone and any future updates will be fully compatible and these things won't happen, ever.
Even if your directories got corrupted, the system does a sanity check on power up that recovered as much as possible (likely all) of your variables.
Those strange names are when it finds an invalid or corrupted name, it replaces it with a random name in an effort to preserve the contents. The Locale, NumFmt, etc. are normal variables stored in the hidden '.Settings' directory. It seems they were recovered to your HOME as well due to directories becoming invalid.

Just to be sure, you should do SDSTO to store whatever you want to preserve to an SD card, then use ON-A-F and select "Clear Memory" while pressing all 3 shifts simultaneously to completely wipe clean your memory.

[Claudio L.]

(11-24-2016 09:01 PM)Guenter Schink Wrote:  shouldn't that be limited to one specific shift key? Perhaps the other shift can sometime be utilized for something else

It comes from the menu definition. A menu item is:

{ Display Action Help }
where display is whatever you want to show in the label, and action can be one of:

* A single program: Runs with single key and all shift planes
* A list with 2 programs: { Single_key Shifted_key }: The first program runs for single key, the second runs for any shifts
* A list with 3 programs: { Single_key LS_key RS_key }: It runs single, left shift or right shift accordingly, but if you do LS-Hold it runs the LS_key program as well, and RS-Hold runs the RS_Key program
* A list with 5 programs: { Single_key LS_Key RS_Key LSHold_Key RSHold_Key }: This one doesn't need much explanation.

Basically, it should be a list with all 5 planes, but if a plane definition is missing, it will call the closest definition.
Because I only defined one "shifted" program to run, it runs for both shifts, with and without HOLD, but if/when somebody defines an action for each shift, that will change.

(11-24-2016 09:01 PM)Guenter Schink Wrote:  I would expect the stack menu to be invoked with an interactive stack. Up arrow?

Not yet implemented. Whenever there is an interactive stack, the up key will activate it. In the meanwhile, you have a stack menu for programming.

(11-24-2016 09:01 PM)Guenter Schink Wrote:  "Back" couldn't that be also used in the variables menu to go one level up? In parallel to the already implemented LS UP.

Moving to a previous menu and changing the current directory are 2 different things, you are still in the VARS menu, the menu didn't change but it's your directory that changed. The Back button will take you to whatever menu you had before VARS. As you pointed out, we already have a very convenient shortcut for UPDIR and HOME in the Up cursor.

Let's say you are in directory MYDIR, and not showing the VARS menu. You press P for the main menu, then Vars and you see the variables, then press the Back button, and it does UPDIR, rather than take you back to the main menu? That means you couldn't ever go back to the previous menu from VARS.

[Guenter Schink]

(11-25-2016 04:35 AM)Claudio L. Wrote:  ...

Thanks for the explanation.

Günter

[Vtile]

Have there been any discussion of any natively supported compressed image format, ie. GIF / PNG ?

This would be handy feature with use of any informatic graphics (equation libraries are the first thing that comes to my mind), as it would make the memory demand smaller and importing and exporting from PC easier than GROB format with almost working 3rd party conversion tools. I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't have Grob for "low level" work, but many graphics are those that just sits on the flash and once in a while you need to see it.

[Claudio L.]

(12-07-2016 12:56 PM)Vtile Wrote:  Have there been any discussion of any natively supported compressed image format, ie. GIF / PNG ?

This would be handy feature with use of any informatic graphics (equation libraries are the first thing that comes to my mind), as it would make the memory demand smaller and importing and exporting from PC easier than GROB format with almost working 3rd party conversion tools. I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't have Grob for "low level" work, but many graphics are those that just sits on the flash and once in a while you need to see it.

Good topic. This is still in the planning stages, but doesn't hurt to share the idea for public discussion:
* There will be a single API to draw primitives, including text, lines, paths, bezier curves, etc. The API will primarily generate a PLOT object, which will be a compiled vector graphic format, trying to follow closely the SVG commands (but in binary format) so there's an easy path to export SVG graphics.
* Those PLOT objects will be able to be rendered to many different targets, GROBS for starters, but other common formats like SVG, PNG, GIF, etc. could be added as well.
* PLOT objects can be rendered in full or just a window, for example to zoom in or pan on the screen without having to regenerate the entire plot (I guess if you zoom in deep enough you'll need to regenerate the plot at some point).
* You should be able to draw symbolic expressions to a PLOT object (in pretty print), to include equations inside graphics.
The API and many details are yet to be defined, but that's the main idea: you could plot a function in the calculator, export an SVG file and post it on a website without using any external conversion tools.

How does that sound?

[Vtile]

Unfortunately my technical know-how is not high enough to take any informed opinion on this image format subject outside of the end-user perspective.

[Claudio L.]

List of new features and changes:

* Added support for HALT, CONT, KILL, and a new feature: conditional breakpoints.
* Added support for custom key definitions (ASN renamed to ASNKEY, also implemented DELKEY, RCLKEYS, STOKEYS).


For those who want to try, here's how it works:

ASNKEY:
Action_Object KeyName Context

Action_Object is the program to execute when you press the key. It not only accepts programs, but any object. Most objects are EVAL'ed, others receive special treatment:
* If a list is given, the first object is EVAL'ed or inserted in the editor instead of always EVALed. This allows to include commands instead of programs as in { SIN }. When in D mode, SIN will be EVALed, in A mode SIN() will be typed, and in P mode SIN will be inserted. Secondaries :: ; inside a list are executed transparently when in the editor (normal behavior of a program is to close the editor, compile whatever was in the editor, then run the program, this runs the program without ever closing the editor). IDENTS behave much like they do in menu definitions (directories are changed without closing the editor, etc.). Also a string inside a list is treated as text to type (like a keyboard macro), rather than as a string object.

KeyName is a string (forget about those shift plane numbers!) with the format:

"KK[.SS[.EE]]"

Where KK is the name of the key (A thru Z, 0 to 9, +,-,*,/, DT for dot, SP for space, EN for enter, UP/DN/LF/RT for the cursors and BK for backspace).
.SS is the optional shift, and can be L, LH , R, RH, A, AH, OH for (Left, Left-hold, etc.)
.EE is the event type, and can be P for press (default), D for key down, U for key up, L for long press, R for repeat (only works on some keys), and T for long repeat.

Context is a number that indicates whether we are in the stack, the editor, etc. For now let's use 0 which means the key definition will act always.

Some key examples:

"Hello" "4..L" 0 ASNKEY --> Will assign the string "Hello" to the key 4, unshifted, when you do a long press.
"World" "4..T" 0 ASNKEY --> Will assign the string to the key 4, unshifted, long repeat.

Now press and hold 4 and you should see on the stack:
"Hello"
"World"
"World"
...
"World"

to delete this assignment just use DELKEY with the key name:

"4..T" DELKEY
"4..L" DELKEY

Key definitions don't overwrite each other, they add the new definition with higher priority than any existing one.
So you can define:

"Hello" "4..L" 0 ASNKEY
"World" "4..L" 0 ASNKEY

Now long-pressing 4 will show "World". Deleting this key:
"4..L" DELKEY will only delete the latest definition, and now long-pressing will show "Hello", which is still defined.
You need to delete the other definition as well with a second
"4..L" DELKEY

One last example (a prank?):
Make the 4 key work like a 7:
{ "7" } "4" 0 ASNKEY
{ "7" } "4.A" 0 ASNKEY
{ "7" } "4.AH" 0 ASNKEY

The first assignment takes care of the usual press, the second one changes it when in alpha mode, the third one changes the definition when in Alpha-Hold mode.

By the way, the System/Keys menu has a "DISABLE" key that allows you to enable/disable the custom keys, in case you make typing impossible (like the example above). This is flag -4, nothing special.

Have fun redefining the keyboard!