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I need help with using the 41CL
09-18-2021, 08:51 PM (This post was last modified: 09-18-2021 09:05 PM by Sylvain Cote.)
Post: #21
RE: I need help with using the 41CL
Hello David,

(09-18-2021 01:05 PM)David Hayden Wrote:  
  • Why can you plug a module into a page that already has one? That was the fundamental problem that Namir had. I would have preferred an error and the need to unplug the previous module first.
Nothing prevent you to do that, as long as you do not unmap one of the YFNZ/YFNX module, then the PLUG functions are no longer there, this is what happened to Namir in 2014 and to Uli this week.

Test case: (note: by design, virtual module take precedence over physical ones.)
Code:
            // assuming no physical modules is inserted into the 41CL
MMUDIS      // disable MMU
MMUCLR      // clear MMU configuration
"YFNZ"      // 41CL Extra Functions
PLUG1L      // map ROM to page 8
MMUEN       // enable MMU
CAT 2       // "-YFNZ 4G"
"MATH"      // Math ROM
PLUG2L      // map Math ROM to page 10
CAT 2       // "-YFNZ 4G" and "-MATH  1D"
"STAT"      // Stat ROM
PLUG2L      // map Stat ROM to page 10 (and unmapping Math ROM at the same time) 
CAT 2       // "-YFNZ 4G" and "STAT  1B"
            // OFF, insert a physical module into port 2 (I used the Home Management ROM), ON
CAT 2       // "-YFNZ 4G" and "STAT  1B" (virtual ROM)
UPLUG2L     // unmapping Stat ROM from page 10
CAT 2       // "-YFNZ 4G" and "HOME MN 1A" (physical ROM)
            // OFF, remove the physical module (Home Management ROM) from port 2, ON
CAT 2       // "-YFNZ 4G"

(09-18-2021 01:05 PM)David Hayden Wrote:  
  • I wish there was also a "PLUG" command that plugged the module into available port.
Not as easy as it sound, but it could have been done.
ROM file format does not include contextual information as to which page and in what bank it must be mapped.
MOD file format does have that information.
41CL DB ROM have most of that information thought.

(09-18-2021 01:05 PM)David Hayden Wrote:  
  • What's plugged in where?
As Mark said, all CCD ROM implementation has the CAT 8 to F allowing you to catalog a specific page.
Also, several modules (ZenROM, HEPAX, etc) has a ROM editor that allows you to see what's in any page.
But I agree with you that it would have been a great function to be included with the YFN? ROMs.
I could probably create a small FOCAL program that extract the mapping information from the 41CL configuration space, let me have a look.

Sylvain

edit 1: typos
edit 2: change the physical ROM to Home Management ROM to remove ambiguities
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09-18-2021, 10:12 PM
Post: #22
RE: I need help with using the 41CL
(09-18-2021 08:51 PM)Sylvain Cote Wrote:  Hello David,

(09-18-2021 01:05 PM)David Hayden Wrote:  
  • Why can you plug a module into a page that already has one? That was the fundamental problem that Namir had. I would have preferred an error and the need to unplug the previous module first.
Nothing prevent you to do that, as long as you do not unmap one of the YFNZ/YFNX module, then the PLUG functions are no longer there, this is what happened to Namir in 2014 and to Uli this week.

Test case: (note: by design, virtual module take precedence over physical ones.)
Code:
            // assuming no physical modules is inserted into the 41CL
MMUDIS      // disable MMU
MMUCLR      // clear MMU configuration
"YFNZ"      // 41CL Extra Functions
PLUG1L      // map ROM to page 8
MMUEN       // enable MMU
CAT 2       // "-YFNZ 4G"
"MATH"      // Math ROM
PLUG2L      // map Math ROM to page 10
CAT 2       // "-YFNZ 4G" and "-MATH  1D"
"STAT"      // Stat ROM
PLUG2L      // map Stat ROM to page 10 (and unmapping Math ROM at the same time) 
CAT 2       // "-YFNZ 4G" and "STAT  1B"
            // OFF, insert a physical module into port 2 (I used the Home Management ROM), ON
CAT 2       // "-YFNZ 4G" and "STAT  1B" (virtual ROM)
UPLUG2L     // unmapping Stat ROM from page 10
CAT 2       // "-YFNZ 4G" and "HOME MN 1A" (physical ROM)
            // OFF, remove the physical module (Home Management ROM) from port 2, ON
CAT 2       // "-YFNZ 4G"

(09-18-2021 01:05 PM)David Hayden Wrote:  
  • I wish there was also a "PLUG" command that plugged the module into available port.
Not as easy as it sound, but it could have been done.
ROM file format does not include contextual information as to which page and in what bank it must be mapped.
MOD file format does have that information.
41CL DB ROM have most of that information thought.

(09-18-2021 01:05 PM)David Hayden Wrote:  
  • What's plugged in where?
As Mark said, all CCD ROM implementation has the CAT 8 to F allowing you to catalog a specific page.
Also, several modules (ZenROM, HEPAX, etc) has a ROM editor that allows you to see what's in any page.
But I agree with you that it would have been a great function to be included with the YFN? ROMs.
I could probably create a small FOCAL program that extract the mapping information from the 41CL configuration space, let me have a look.

Sylvain

edit 1: typos
edit 2: change the physical ROM to Home Management ROM to remove ambiguities

Use YFNX. The page it occupies is LOCKed so it can't be accidentally overwritten (YFNX Manual, page 6). If you want to protect other things you have plugged in, LOCK those pages (YFNX Manual, page 10). If you want to know what's plugged in via the MMU execute PLUG shift alpha alpha alpha "?" (YFNX Manual, page 18) and if you want to know what pages are locked execute EXCFG "0" (YFNX Manual, page 11).

Letting the machine pick a page to plug in something seemed like a recipe for disaster. That's why I didn't implement that option. If there was room in the image I could easily add that feature. Unfortunately the ROM is full.
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09-18-2021, 11:41 PM
Post: #23
RE: I need help with using the 41CL
Hello Monte,

(09-18-2021 10:12 PM)Monte Dalrymple Wrote:  The page it occupies is LOCKed so it can't be accidentally overwritten (YFNX Manual, page 6).
If you want to protect other things you have plugged in, LOCK those pages (YFNX Manual, page 10).
I had never looked at these functions, more investigation is needed on my part to really understand their behavior.

(09-18-2021 10:12 PM)Monte Dalrymple Wrote:  If you want to know what's plugged in via the MMU execute PLUG shift alpha alpha alpha "?" (YFNX Manual, page 18)
Yes!

I have used PPLUG from YFNX and it worked.
Code:
"MATH"
12
PPLUG
"?***"
12
PPLUG    // shows "SEARCHING" then "MATH C"

I have learned something new today, thank you!

Sylvain
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09-19-2021, 01:39 AM
Post: #24
RE: I need help with using the 41CL
We have a saying in aviation. Once you have memorized an aircraft’s check list: CHANGE AIRCRAFT!

Removes complacency.

Not that ANYONE can accuse Sylvain. Of being complacent! ;-)

Cheers Sylvain!
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09-19-2021, 02:16 AM
Post: #25
RE: I need help with using the 41CL
(09-18-2021 11:41 PM)Sylvain Cote Wrote:  Hello Monte,

(09-18-2021 10:12 PM)Monte Dalrymple Wrote:  The page it occupies is LOCKed so it can't be accidentally overwritten (YFNX Manual, page 6).
If you want to protect other things you have plugged in, LOCK those pages (YFNX Manual, page 10).
I had never looked at these functions, more investigation is needed on my part to really understand their behavior.

(09-18-2021 10:12 PM)Monte Dalrymple Wrote:  If you want to know what's plugged in via the MMU execute PLUG shift alpha alpha alpha "?" (YFNX Manual, page 18)
Yes!

I have used PPLUG from YFNX and it worked.
Code:
"MATH"
12
PPLUG
"?***"
12
PPLUG    // shows "SEARCHING" then "MATH C"

I have learned something new today, thank you!

Sylvain

FYI, the "SEARCHING" message is put up while the function is going through the IMDB to find the mnemonic that corresponds to the address retrieved from the MMU.
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09-19-2021, 02:44 AM
Post: #26
RE: I need help with using the 41CL
(09-18-2021 02:07 PM)mfleming Wrote:  With OSX3 plugged in (page 6 in my case) a CAT 0 G will list each page and their content. You can also do a CAT 8 thru F to list individual commands in an occupied user page. I have OSX3 in page 6 and WARP in page 7 because I consider them to be part of then base O/S!

Could not agree more, you took the words right out of my fingers. Smile

But especially the bold part - when I pick up a 41 without these, it feels somewhat broken and I often pause to wonder what may be wrong. As a partial cure, I just ordered yet another NoV-64d...

--Bob Prosperi
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09-19-2021, 02:47 AM
Post: #27
RE: I need help with using the 41CL
(09-19-2021 02:16 AM)Monte Dalrymple Wrote:  FYI, the "SEARCHING" message is put up while the function is going through the IMDB to find the mnemonic that corresponds to the address retrieved from the MMU.
Thanks, that's what I thought.
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09-19-2021, 01:09 PM (This post was last modified: 09-19-2021 05:09 PM by Uli.)
Post: #28
RE: I need help with using the 41CL
" Use YFNX. ..........."

*************
Oh my... To be honest I haven't looked in the 41CL Extreme Function manual. Now, I see that the missing things are implemented there. Sorry. The CL is a really, really big machine. I have to learn so much.
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