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WP 34S --> WP 31S
03-26-2014, 04:39 PM
Post: #201
RE: WP 34S --> WP 31S
(03-26-2014 02:32 PM)walter b Wrote:  Since those letters are all "handmade in Germany" I can't recommend a font where you can steal them from ... Undecided

d:-)

Yes, I don't have a lot of Greek-letter font choices available. Just to be clear, the greek letters you desire under the minus, zero, radix, Σ+ and plus keys are lower-case gamma, lower-case lambda, lower-case mu, upper-case sigma and lower-case phi, respectively, correct?

Speaking of fonts, I'm sure you noticed that I used the Century Schoolbook italic font for all lower-case letters on the keyboard. This closely mimics or maybe even matches the classic hp font for such characters. Any objections or comments on that change?

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03-26-2014, 05:24 PM
Post: #202
RE: WP 34S --> WP 31S
(03-26-2014 02:32 PM)walter b Wrote:  Looking forward to further progress.

See my initial post for revised greek letters, hopefully closer to what you would like to see.

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03-26-2014, 05:30 PM
Post: #203
RE: WP 34S --> WP 31S
(03-26-2014 02:14 PM)Jonathan Cameron Wrote:  I just thought if you are going to provide an overlay, you should tell what size to print it!

Probably a fair expectation. How's this: the overlay should be printed to the proper size so as to fit the actual calculator. Smile
Just kidding, after measuring and double checking, I believe that if it is printed with the width in the 2.66" to 2.67" (67.6 mm to 67.8 mm) range it should fit the actual calculator.

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03-26-2014, 06:17 PM
Post: #204
RE: WP 34S --> WP 31S
(03-26-2014 05:24 PM)Jeff O. Wrote:  See my initial post for revised greek letters, hopefully closer to what you would like to see.

That's continuously looking better. The last letter shall be a capital Phi.

Now to the lower case Latin letters: AFAIK, HP used something like Century Schoolbook italic font for letters referring to stack contents like x or y (or it should have used it at least). Where we don't talk about such items, you should employ the font you use for capital letters for sake of consistency. Thanks in advance for your understanding.

d:-)

BTW, if you continue this way, eventually nobody will understand anymore why I was so excited some posts ago Wink That's called the curse of editing old posts.
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03-26-2014, 07:06 PM
Post: #205
RE: WP 34S --> WP 31S
(03-26-2014 06:17 PM)walter b Wrote:  That's continuously looking better. The last letter shall be a capital Phi.

So you want a capital Phi to be sans-serif? (No idea if it is proper to call it sans serif, I mean the bars on the top and bottom of the vertical stroke. Two of the fonts that I have which produce this character put those bars on.)

(03-26-2014 06:17 PM)walter b Wrote:  Now to the lower case Latin letters: AFAIK, HP used something like Century Schoolbook italic font for letters referring to stack contents like x or y (or it should have used it at least). Where we don't talk about such items, you should employ the font you use for capital letters for sake of consistency. Thanks in advance for your understanding.

Looking at a few HPs that I have handy, it appears that they (Hewlett and Packard) used the Century Schoolbook italic font for the stack content-referring letters, plus the "e" for Euler's number. They indeed did not use it for others such as "r", "s", "a", "b" and "c", so I will make that change with my next version.

(03-26-2014 06:17 PM)walter b Wrote:  BTW, if you continue this way, eventually nobody will understand anymore why I was so excited some posts ago Wink That's called the curse of editing old posts.

Yes, that's true, but I don't want to use up all of my storage space here with a bunch of old versions, so I'll probably continue to update my original post. I will include notes at the bottom describing the edits for each new version.

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03-26-2014, 08:05 PM (This post was last modified: 03-27-2014 05:21 PM by Jeff O..)
Post: #206
RE: WP 34S --> WP 31S
(03-26-2014 07:06 PM)Jeff O. Wrote:  Yes, that's true, but I don't want to use up all of my storage space here with a bunch of old versions, so I'll probably continue to update my original post...

I have a few MB of storage left, so I will go ahead and post the latest versions here. I doubt that the capital Phi will be satisfactory, but hopefully the rest will be OK. With these versions, I left out the gray key background, it looks a little nicer that way. I also trimmed them a bit, these should be printed with a width of approximately 2.63 inches (66.8 mm) to fit the real calculator.

[Image: attachment.php?aid=413]

[Image: attachment.php?aid=414]

[Image: attachment.php?aid=415]

           

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03-26-2014, 08:34 PM
Post: #207
RE: WP 34S --> WP 31S
(03-26-2014 08:05 PM)Jeff O. Wrote:  I doubt that the capital Phi will be satisfactory, but hopefully the rest will be OK.

Despite your prediction, capital Phi looks good to me. The only letter which went out of scale in relation to the others is pi now. This is a lower case letter and should hence be approximately the same size as other primary lower case letters.

The horizontal cut lines for the slanted labels look unnecessarily tight to me. I don't know if you can expand them - please take into account that those planes are ... hmmh ... slanted. Wink

d:-)
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03-27-2014, 12:39 PM
Post: #208
RE: WP 34S --> WP 31S
Please don't forget to add the

WP 31S              RPN SCIENTIFIC

that goes to the top...



Thanks!
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03-27-2014, 02:37 PM
Post: #209
RE: WP 34S --> WP 31S
There is no need to place any cut at all between a primary and a secondary (f-shifted) label. Just FYI.

d:-)
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03-27-2014, 05:30 PM
Post: #210
RE: WP 34S --> WP 31S
(03-26-2014 08:34 PM)walter b Wrote:  The only letter which went out of scale in relation to the others is pi now. This is a lower case letter and should hence be approximately the same size as other primary lower case letters.

Agree that it did not look good. See above, I made it smaller and changed to a more pleasing (to my eye, at least) font.

(03-26-2014 08:34 PM)walter b Wrote:  The horizontal cut lines for the slanted labels look unnecessarily tight to me. I don't know if you can expand them - please take into account that those planes are ... hmmh ... slanted.

(03-27-2014 02:37 PM)walter b Wrote:  There is no need to place any cut at all between a primary and a secondary (f-shifted) label. Just FYI.

The "cut lines" were in the original file from which I started. I don't know the exact relationship between these lines and actual cutting. For the time being, I don't want to fiddle with them.

(03-27-2014 12:39 PM)anetzer Wrote:  Please don't forget to add the

WP 31S              RPN SCIENTIFIC

that goes to the top...

Thanks!

I added a label to my post above.

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03-27-2014, 06:06 PM
Post: #211
RE: WP 34S --> WP 31S
Thanks, Jeff! Smile

I'm willing to release the lower keyboard overlay for obvious reasons (the upper one won't get my release, its clearly only a CAC - a cheap ... copy Wink ).

d:-)
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03-28-2014, 12:20 PM
Post: #212
RE: WP 34S --> WP 31S
(03-27-2014 06:06 PM)walter b Wrote:  Thanks, Jeff! Smile

You are welcome, I enjoy doing such things.

(03-27-2014 06:06 PM)walter b Wrote:  I'm willing to release the lower keyboard overlay for obvious reasons (the upper one won't get my release, its clearly only a CAC - a cheap ... copy Wink ).

d:-)

Certainly do not expect your blessing, but there's no reason options cannot be provided.

Religion, politics, and division symbols are the three things best left to each individual's conscience, and about which there is no point in arguing. Smile

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03-28-2014, 01:10 PM (This post was last modified: 03-28-2014 01:12 PM by walter b.)
Post: #213
RE: WP 34S --> WP 31S
(03-28-2014 12:20 PM)Jeff O. Wrote:  Religion, politics, and division symbols are the three things best left to each individual's conscience, and about which there is no point in arguing. Smile

Don't forget taste (and good taste in particular). Smile

But I don't agree about taking politics out of discussion - IMHO it's in fact a topic which should be discussed more frequently and widely, just not here. Division symbols, OTOH, are fitting perfectly here Wink though I know it's a very hard and weary job to reach a set of unambiguous, consistent symbols (taking into account the history of science and metrology). Constant dripping will wear the stone, however.

Anyway, is anybody going to contact Eric?

d:-)
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03-28-2014, 01:15 PM
Post: #214
RE: WP 34S --> WP 31S
The gray lines were purely reference lines for me to know the maximum "safe area" for labels so they wouldn't be too close to the edges of the keys or go over the angle in the middle of the key. They were not meant to be printed.

I suggest that you delete the layer with the gray boxes before generating an image for printing; that's what I always do.
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03-28-2014, 02:07 PM
Post: #215
RE: WP 34S --> WP 31S
(03-28-2014 12:20 PM)Jeff O. Wrote:  Religion, politics, and division symbols are the three things best left to each individual's conscience, and about which there is no point in arguing. Smile
You could start a poll about the division symbol.

Cheers
Thomas
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03-28-2014, 02:33 PM
Post: #216
RE: WP 34S --> WP 31S
(03-28-2014 01:15 PM)Eric Rechlin Wrote:  I suggest that you delete the layer with the gray boxes before generating an image for printing; that's what I always do.

Thanks, Eric, for your advice. Which tool do you use for that graphics? I don't see any layers unvealed.

d:-?
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03-28-2014, 03:47 PM (This post was last modified: 03-28-2014 03:50 PM by Eric Rechlin.)
Post: #217
RE: WP 34S --> WP 31S
I use Inkscape for editing the SVG file. It's free and open source and not always the most user-friendly, but it seems both stable and capable.

I can't cut directly from the SVG files. I export them to PNG, then put the PNG file into the program that drives the cutter, and manually draw all the cut lines onto it. But despite calibrating, the cutter still doesn't cut in the right place, so with a new layout it takes a bunch of trial-and-error to get everything aligned right again.

I'll probably make some 31S overlays soon. If someone has an SVG already that will help out, otherwise I will make one from scratch like I did for the 30S a few weeks ago.
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03-28-2014, 05:05 PM
Post: #218
RE: WP 34S --> WP 31S
Hi all,

As interesting and amusing this thread is, I am a little bit lost after reading a few pages of posts.
Is this 31S a new project, or are we just brainstorming an hypothetical RPN calculator?

I am now in the process of building one WP-34S (late arrival, I know...).
I am always looking forward for another open source calculator projects, like the more powerful WP-43S project that has already a site in the SourceForge portal, despite showing no information at all.

All the best,
Jose

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03-28-2014, 05:13 PM
Post: #219
RE: WP 34S --> WP 31S
(03-28-2014 03:47 PM)Eric Rechlin Wrote:  I'll probably make some 31S overlays soon. If someone has an SVG already that will help out, otherwise I will make one from scratch like I did for the 30S a few weeks ago.
Eric,
I created mine as SVG using Inkscape (agree that it is not user friendly), then exported to png for presentation here. The two version (differing only in division symbol) are in the attached zip folder. The only problem is the font for the greek characters. None of the fonts available in Inkscape look good, so I edited the png images to make decent looking characters.


.zip  31s Overlays.zip (Size: 34.74 KB / Downloads: 12)

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03-28-2014, 05:17 PM
Post: #220
RE: WP 34S --> WP 31S
(03-28-2014 05:05 PM)jebem Wrote:  As interesting and amusing this thread is, I am a little bit lost after reading a few pages of posts.
Is this 31S a new project, or are we just brainstorming an hypothetical RPN calculator?
Hi Jose,

Yes, this is a new project which we have almost completed our initial version. If you would like to beta test it on a windows emulator or to get the flash image to try it on a 30b device, you can visit the 31s branch on the sourceforge page:

http://sourceforge.net/p/wp34s/code/HEAD...hes/wp31s/

If you are using Linux, please PM me and I should have a Qt emulator version ready for you to try this weekend.

Most of the WP-34s team have had a hand in this project. Sanjeev and I have done a lot of the keyboard reassignment work and various other tweaks and adjustments. Walter is a key author and has guided us all on design, keyboard layout, and is producing a manual for it (similar to the WP-34s manual).

-Jonathan
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