43s status

[walter b]

The order of these operators was discussed ad nauseam in earlier threads.

d:-/

[walter b]

Please let me add there will be extended customizing opportunities. And overlays, IMHO, can take care of keyplate labels plus the ones on the slanted fronts.

d:-)

[walter b]

Obrigado! Thanks for the compilation.

d:-)

[Ender]

I think when you do a poll on the layout of 43S, everyone will have their opinions based on their experiences with past HP calculators. Each design will have their pros and cons, without any one design triumphing all others. My thought on the matter is like this. Since 43S is designed as a step-up from the 42S, the 2 calculators should share some family resemblance. There is little point debating whether the operators should be on the right like HP whatever or that the functions should be located in such a manner or arrangement, because that HP whatever is not the progenitor for HP43S. My preference is be that the person who uses the new 43S will see familiarity with the 42S, and both calculators can used be at the same time without any drastic change where common keystrokes are concerned.

[walter b]

Yes, in principle. Please note, however, the HP-42S was the successor of the HP-41Cx after a few years though their keyboard layouts are completely different. And after almost 30 years, some difference between the layouts of the HP-42S and the (so far hypothetical) 43S will be allowed as well, I think. So I can promise there will be significant differences keystroke-wise between the 41C, 42S, and 43S. Nobody will count them to the same family.

And we started these polls when we needed some opinion of the community in cases where we didn't come to a definite conclusion ourselves.

d:-)

[walter b]

(11-17-2015 09:38 PM)walter b Wrote:  

(09-29-2015 07:08 PM)brouhaha Wrote:  We expect to have the new PCB layout completed soon, build one unit for hardware validation, and if all goes well build more units for firmware development. We expect to make units available to the WP-34s developers before year end.

...

In the mean time, I'm working on porting WP-34s to the XC-40 hardware.

Well, six weeks to go till year end - and counting.

d:-?

(Edit: To our sensitive plants - this is just meant as a friendly reminder that half the time is over between announcement and appointment - without the slightest bit of information about progress in that matter, if I didn't miss anything. No offense intended. Fragen wird man doch noch dürfen, hoffentlich. )

Ten more days ... Let's keep our fingers crossed though hope is dwindling.

d:-?

[d b]

(12-20-2015 05:29 PM)walter b Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 09:38 PM)walter b Wrote:  Well, six weeks to go till year end - and counting.
d:-?
(Edit: To our sensitive plants - this is just meant as a friendly reminder that half the time is over between announcement and appointment - without the slightest bit of information about progress in that matter, if I didn't miss anything. No offense intended. Fragen wird man doch noch dürfen, hoffentlich. )

Ten more days ... Let's keep our fingers crossed though hope is dwindling.
d:-?

George Bernard Shaw once said — "I often quote myself. It adds spice to my conversation."

[walter b]

(12-20-2015 11:39 PM)Den Belillo (Martinez Ca.) Wrote:  George Bernard Shaw once said — "I often quote myself. It adds spice to my conversation."

Sometimes there's simply no other way to spread some messages.

d;-)

[wojtek]

In all these projects I miss:
-unlimited stack, as in hp50g
-SD card slot

[Massimo Gnerucci]

(12-24-2015 12:28 PM)wojtek Wrote:  In all these projects I miss:
-unlimited stack, as in hp50g

That's something for the lesser RPL machines. ;)

And you already have the 50g, so what?

[Vtile]

(12-24-2015 08:07 PM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  

(12-24-2015 12:28 PM)wojtek Wrote:  In all these projects I miss:
-unlimited stack, as in hp50g

That's something for the lesser RPL machines.

And you already have the 50g, so what?

HP50g is huge by size, good for traditionalist and dusting in museum.

[Massimo Gnerucci]

(12-25-2015 02:41 AM)Vtile Wrote:  

(12-24-2015 08:07 PM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  That's something for the lesser RPL machines.

And you already have the 50g, so what?

HP50g is huge by size, good for traditionalist and dusting in museum.

I concur, but let the 43s alone!

[Claudio L.]

(12-25-2015 11:24 AM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  

(12-25-2015 02:41 AM)Vtile Wrote:  HP50g is huge by size, good for traditionalist and dusting in museum.

I concur, but let the 43s alone!

I agree too. Leave the 43s alone, looks like you should be joining the conversation on newRPL, it seems to be more your kind of project (shameless advertising was intentional, but on topic).

By the way, if the 43s doesn't have hardware yet, wouldn't it be beneficial to start development on existing hardware like the 50g? Just make the code as portable as possible, and by the time you get the slim 43s boards, you'll have something done already.

[Claudio L.]

(12-25-2015 04:35 PM)Claudio L. Wrote:  By the way, if the 43s doesn't have hardware yet, wouldn't it be beneficial to start development on existing hardware like the 50g?

Scratch that.
How about the Prime hardware? (see post about making new firmware for the Prime) If we can get enough hands together, we can do the low-level in a more or less universal API, to coordinate efforts between projects.
I'm talking about a common core that handles everything in the hardware and provides good services to draw graphics, text, handle the keyboard, touchscreen, flash, etc.
Both 43S and newRPL projects can build on top of the same common core, so it would be a much lighter load on both projects, but they can freely diverge from there.
Yes, I'm proposing collaboration between both projects, is there any interest?

PS: Yes, I know the Prime is too big in size for the 43S fans, but the cool touchscreen factor has to count for something...

[Paul Dale]

I think convincing Walter to use the prime hardware will be difficult....

Still, some cooperation between the projects would be a good thing. The low level hardware drivers would be common and a lot of the mathematical routines could be.


- Pauli

[Claudio L.]

(12-29-2015 05:23 AM)Paul Dale Wrote:  I think convincing Walter to use the prime hardware will be difficult....

I think he has already realized that there will be no 43S custom hardware coming in the near future. So the question is whether to start the project on different hardware or keep shuffling key labels for another couple of years.
When you put it this way, the Prime could seem reasonable to him.

@Walter: does it seem reasonable?

[Steve Simpkin]

I don't think physical size should be an issue with the Prime. At 182×85.8×13.9 mm (7.13×3.38×0.550 inches), the Prime is just slightly wider (by 5.8 mm), slightly thinner (by 1.3 mm) and somewhat taller (by 33.4 mm) than the HP-42S. As such, it will fit in any pocket that a Pioneer series models will. I do not know how big a DIY4 or DIY5 model would be, but given its display size, I don't think it will be any smaller than the Prime.

The bigger issue I suspect will be the back-lit display and its limited battery life compared to the typical HP calculator.

[walter b]

(12-30-2015 12:27 AM)Steve Simpkin Wrote:  I don't think physical size should be an issue with the Prime. At 182×85.8×13.9 mm (7.13×3.38×0.550 inches), the Prime is just slightly wider (by 5.8 mm), slightly thinner (by 1.3 mm) and somewhat taller (by 33.4 mm) than the HP-42S.

LOL. Liberty dies little by little. No, Steve, "somewhat" and even your first "slightly" are too big for me.

(12-29-2015 10:48 PM)Claudio L. Wrote:  I think he has already realized that there will be no 43S custom hardware coming in the near future. So the question is whether to start the project on different hardware or keep shuffling key labels for another couple of years.

Claudio, if you want to redress the Prime feel free to do so. It's beyond my scope for reasons of size, display, battery life, and more. Similar with the 50g. If we want something new, however, taking over the baton from the 42S, there's no way around waiting for the Geckos being delivered at least in mylar cases, IMHO. There's one day left in 2015 still <bitter grin>. Mechanical HW (i.e. case & keys) will become easier to get with time, electronical HW is present - it must just be assembled. Let's hope Eric and Richard will get it done very soon (I for my part would be terribly ashamed announcing delivery year after year but not being able to do it - though maybe that's just an outdated old European attitude).

With respect to shuffling: the layout is quite stable AFAICS. It could be changed easily if breathtaking ideas would arise in the community, however, being communicated in a visually convincing way. Though based on experience of last year I'd recommend you don't hold your breath for that.

d:-/

[Paul Dale]

As far as I'm aware, the electronic design is comparatively easy.

The mechanical & industrial design is the hard bit.

The software, while ultimately complex, can be done incrementally and a lot of the mathematical code exists in the 34S.


- Pauli

[Claudio L.]

(12-30-2015 08:44 AM)walter b Wrote:  LOL. Liberty dies little by little. No, Steve, "somewhat" and even your first "slightly" are too big for me.

I hope Eric's final design ends up being within 1 mm of your specs, otherwise you'll discard his hardware too!
A little flexibility could go a long way to save (start?) the project.

(12-30-2015 08:44 AM)walter b Wrote:  If we want something new, however, taking over the baton from the 42S, there's no way around waiting for the Geckos being delivered at least in mylar cases, IMHO.

I think the right question is: do you HAVE to wait?
You could start the project core on substitute hardware keeping in mind portability to that target. You wouldn't abandon it completely, just gain some time by using different hardware.

Looking a few posts above, the DIY4X platform with the new display has been in that mylar case since Jan 2012, "almost ready" to start software development. It could take a couple more years to get a real keyboard manufactured. I admire your patience.

You also have to think of the price target: would you pay $300 for that hardware when you can have the Prime hardware for $120? Perhaps you would, but would everyone else?
Your target audience will be reduced significantly by using custom-hardware only. In the end, you could release the 43S for Prime hardware and simultaneously for the DIY5 or whatever it's called in final form.