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Hoppi 1.3.2 Release
12-13-2016, 02:52 AM
Post: #21
RE: Hoppi 1.3.2 Release
Hi Paul,

Yes, I've been testing the new version and have confirmed it moves files from my Mac to my 48GX without problem now. Thanks again!

By the way, until now, I've moved files from my iMac to the 48GX using RightShift & 1 (I/O), then choosing Transfer... Pressing the CHOOS soft key with the NAME field selected lets me browse files on my Mac. The files I transfer always end up inside VAR. I recently purchased a 128k FRAM card from EBAY and I intend to put Meta Kernel on it. How would I use Hoppi to move the Meta Kernel file from my iMac directly to the FRAM card?

Thanks,

James Wages
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12-13-2016, 02:16 PM
Post: #22
RE: Hoppi 1.3.2 Release
(12-13-2016 02:52 AM)JDW Wrote:  Hi Paul,

Yes, I've been testing the new version and have confirmed it moves files from my Mac to my 48GX without problem now. Thanks again!

By the way, until now, I've moved files from my iMac to the 48GX using RightShift & 1 (I/O), then choosing Transfer... Pressing the CHOOS soft key with the NAME field selected lets me browse files on my Mac. The files I transfer always end up inside VAR. I recently purchased a 128k FRAM card from EBAY and I intend to put Meta Kernel on it. How would I use Hoppi to move the Meta Kernel file from my iMac directly to the FRAM card?

Thanks,

James Wages

Hi James,

Glad to hear it's business-as-usual again!

I'm not familiar with the Meta Kernel, but if it is just a matter of installing libraries then can you not simply recall the contents of the variable to the stack, store it to a port, then delete the variable?

Paul
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12-14-2016, 12:07 AM (This post was last modified: 12-14-2016 12:07 AM by JDW.)
Post: #23
RE: Hoppi 1.3.2 Release
Paul,

The library is 128k -- the same size as the FRAM card. So I am wondering how to use Hoppi to copy that 128k library from my Mac and write it directly to the 128k FRAM card inside the 48GX.

James
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12-14-2016, 09:23 AM (This post was last modified: 12-14-2016 09:24 AM by Han.)
Post: #24
RE: Hoppi 1.3.2 Release
(12-14-2016 12:07 AM)JDW Wrote:  Paul,

The library is 128k -- the same size as the FRAM card. So I am wondering how to use Hoppi to copy that 128k library from my Mac and write it directly to the 128k FRAM card inside the 48GX.

James

Merge your memory, install it into port 0, then detach it. That said, as fast as MetaKernel can be, it is quite unstable. I would not recommend using it. If you just want a faster interface, consider using SpeedUI.

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12-15-2016, 12:29 AM (This post was last modified: 12-15-2016 12:29 AM by JDW.)
Post: #25
RE: Hoppi 1.3.2 Release
(12-14-2016 09:23 AM)Han Wrote:  Merge your memory...

I've never done that before because I've never had any cards for my 48GX before, but I can lookup how to do that.

(12-14-2016 09:23 AM)Han Wrote:  ...install it into port 0, then detach it.

When I use Paul's software Hoppi, it allows me to move the file (in this case, the 128k Meta Kernel file) from my Mac into VAR on my 48GX. So what you are saying is that after it is saved in VAR, I need to use File Manager to move it to port 0?? And when you say "detach it" you mean PURGE/DELETE it from VAR?

(12-14-2016 09:23 AM)Han Wrote:  That said, as fast as MetaKernel can be, it is quite unstable. I would not recommend using it. If you just want a faster interface, consider using SpeedUI.

But when I use my 50g and do a warm start, I see that it has Meta Kernel. Even the startup screen is exactly the same as the old 48GX Meta Kernel. As such, if Meta Kernel is so buggy, wouldn't the 50g be buggy too?

Thanks!
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12-15-2016, 12:58 AM
Post: #26
RE: Hoppi 1.3.2 Release
(12-15-2016 12:29 AM)JDW Wrote:  But when I use my 50g and do a warm start, I see that it has Meta Kernel. Even the startup screen is exactly the same as the old 48GX Meta Kernel. As such, if Meta Kernel is so buggy, wouldn't the 50g be buggy too?

Meta Kernel for the 48G series was created by independent developers and sold (as shareware I think) to end users. HP noticed the excellent value it offered and licensed the code for the 49G, but made modifications (some obvious, some not) and then went through very thorough testing (and many ROM versions!) to get it to where it is today in the 50g 2.15 ROM.

I honestly don't know how buggy/stable MK is on the 48G, but I suspect Han would know. My only point is that it's not the same product and comparing them isn't as simple as you're suggesting.

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12-20-2016, 05:15 AM (This post was last modified: 12-20-2016 05:16 AM by JDW.)
Post: #27
RE: Hoppi 1.3.2 Release
(12-15-2016 12:58 AM)rprosperi Wrote:  I honestly don't know how buggy/stable MK is on the 48G, but I suspect Han would know.

Han never gave us his thoughts on that, so I continued to Google for info and found the following instructions on how to install Meta Kernel:

http://files.mpoli.fi/unpacked/software/.../setup.txt

XMODEM is highly recommended by those instructions, but since I use a Mac, Hoppi (KERMIT) will have to suffice.

If I am successful, I can then begin testing Meta Kernel and see how buggy it is. I can always wipe it an install SpeedIU instead.

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12-20-2016, 02:02 PM
Post: #28
RE: Hoppi 1.3.2 Release
(12-20-2016 05:15 AM)JDW Wrote:  If I am successful, I can then begin testing Meta Kernel and see how buggy it is. I can always wipe it an install SpeedIU instead.

I am interested in your results. I have avoided using MK on the 48 due to many comments similar to Han's, however your results may differ. Please share your conclusions after driving it around for a while. OTOH, I have used SpeedUI, found it made a clearly noticeable speed improvement, like it's modular approach, and have not had stability problems. I also like the "SysRPL" view option (having used 50g, it feels necessary) though it necessarily does take a lot of RAM.

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12-21-2016, 12:13 AM (This post was last modified: 12-21-2016 12:13 AM by JDW.)
Post: #29
RE: Hoppi 1.3.2 Release
(12-20-2016 02:02 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  ...I have used SpeedUI... it necessarily does take a lot of RAM.

Indeed. I just downloaded the SpeedUI Zip file and found there are 24 *.LIB files totaling 186k. So if all are installed you use an entire 128k FRAM card, plus 58k of calculator RAM.

Did you install all the modules?
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12-21-2016, 03:41 AM
Post: #30
RE: Hoppi 1.3.2 Release
(12-21-2016 12:13 AM)JDW Wrote:  Did you install all the modules?

No, you can't load them all at once. For some features, there are multiple versions of libraries, so it appears larger than it really is.

SpeedUI's approach is very modular, so you only need to add the components that matter to you. My example of wanting SysRPL view is a good example; it requires a lot of RAM to do this, but I think it's worth it. If that feature doesn't matter, no need to load that module.

My suggestion is to print out and read all of the several documents included. I needed to read them, referencing others at the same time, several times, but finally figured it out. In the end, I actually use only a couple of the modules as those were the UI elements that mattered to me. I don't care about most of the more complex pieces since I rarely use busy dialog controls; my needs are more like basic math and exploring SysRPL.

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12-21-2016, 06:01 AM
Post: #31
RE: Hoppi 1.3.2 Release
(12-15-2016 12:29 AM)JDW Wrote:  
(12-14-2016 09:23 AM)Han Wrote:  Merge your memory...

I've never done that before because I've never had any cards for my 48GX before, but I can lookup how to do that.

(12-14-2016 09:23 AM)Han Wrote:  ...install it into port 0, then detach it.

When I use Paul's software Hoppi, it allows me to move the file (in this case, the 128k Meta Kernel file) from my Mac into VAR on my 48GX. So what you are saying is that after it is saved in VAR, I need to use File Manager to move it to port 0?? And when you say "detach it" you mean PURGE/DELETE it from VAR?

(12-14-2016 09:23 AM)Han Wrote:  That said, as fast as MetaKernel can be, it is quite unstable. I would not recommend using it. If you just want a faster interface, consider using SpeedUI.

But when I use my 50g and do a warm start, I see that it has Meta Kernel. Even the startup screen is exactly the same as the old 48GX Meta Kernel. As such, if Meta Kernel is so buggy, wouldn't the 50g be buggy too?

Thanks!

In general:

Assuming a blank slate and RAM card in slot 1, you simply type MERGE1. This merges RAM and card slot 1 so that you have approx. 256KB memory. Programs that are near the 128KB limit and (after accounting for the fact that the OS takes approx. 4KB) would result in insufficient memory conditions without merging. With merged memory (256KB) this should not be an issue.

Anyway, after downloading the library:

Recall the library onto the stack, and delete the variable containing that library. Then type 0 STO to store the library into port 0. Note the library number. Then, you can "unmerge" your RAM and RAM card using: { :0:lib_num } FREE1 where the :0: refers to port 0 (where the library is initially stored) and lib_num is the library number. If you have multiple libraries, then you will simply need more library numbers in your list, tagged with appropriate port numbers.

Meta Kernel, however, has its own special installer. You will still need to merge memory, but the installer will take care of the rest (such as moving the library and unmerging the RAM card).

Meta Kernel for the HP50G is a much later revision. I believe the MK version in the HP49G was 3.0 or something close (you can find old posts by Jean-Yves Avenard on comp.sys.hp48 about this). I am not sure what version is on the HP50G. However, the highest version on the HP48GX was 2.29 or so. The buggy behavior had to do with the object compiler/decompiler (i.e. the routines responsible for turning human readable code into binary code and vice versa). It has been too long for me to remember all the issues, but the one I do recall was arrays of numbers (integers in particular) often got corrupted and would result in complete memory wipes. Since practically everything involved the command line and hence the compiler/decompiler, MK was not an option for me.

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01-07-2017, 04:17 AM
Post: #32
RE: Hoppi 1.3.2 Release
(12-21-2016 06:01 AM)Han Wrote:  Assuming a blank slate and RAM card in slot 1, you simply type MERGE1. This merges RAM and card slot 1 so that you have approx. 256KB memory. Programs that are near the 128KB limit and (after accounting for the fact that the OS takes approx. 4KB) would result in insufficient memory conditions without merging. With merged memory (256KB) this should not be an issue.

Well, I'm back at home in Japan today. I turned off the 48GX and then inserted the 128k FRAM card. I had all but 28k of internal RAM used. I then typed MERGE1 and pressed ENTER. I now have 100k used and 156k free.

I thought the RAM merge with the card in Slot1 would wipe the internal RAM contents but it didn't. Nice.

When I have more time, I will try Meta Kernel and report back. Thanks for the assistance. Happy New Year to one and all!

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01-11-2017, 07:55 AM (This post was last modified: 01-11-2017 08:02 AM by JDW.)
Post: #33
RE: Hoppi 1.3.2 Release
Well, I can't install MetaKernel because I get repeated timeout errors when using Hoppi 1.3.4-rc1. It writes about 910 packets (about 55k) of MKRAM.KER and then it says ABORTED. Here's a screenshot from my iMac:

https://cl.ly/2m2W2q1N2W0F/Image%202017-...0%20PM.png

Note that screenshot shows the 1st abort (53248 bytes). On my 1st abort, the HP48 beeped and displayed "Try To Recover Memory?" I said NO to let it wipe before I tried again.

My 2nd try aborted at 56320 bytes and returned to the MTH menus.

My 3rd try aborted at 8192 bytes (odd) and returned to MTH menus.

My 4th try aborted at 97280 bytes, beeped and displayed "Try To Recover Memory?" I pressed NO, but my screen then went blank (turned on, but completely blank). Pressing ON-A-F and then NO also resulted in a blank screen. I disconnected the cable, the pressed ON-A-F, then YES, and it said Recovering Memory for a very long time. It took so long I pressed ON-A-F again and then NO, but I still got a blank screen. Frustrated to tears, I yanked the batteries. When I put them back in I said NO and got Memory Clear. Finally!

Being a true Sadomasochist I attempted it a 5th time. It aborted at 16384 bytes and returned me to the MTH menus.

Growing increasing angry, I tried a 6th time. It aborted at 10240 bytes with a beep sound and an Error box displaying within I/O that read the following:

"Error: Port Not Available"

I did not press ON-A-F prior to doing the 6th transfer, so maybe that is why?

I pressed ON-A-F then NO. I got Memory Clear. I tried it a 7th time. It aborted at 11264 bytes, and returned me to the MTH menus, so I gave up at this point.

Is it another bug in Hoppi?

Since I use a Mac, I have no idea how to go beyond Hoppi and try XMODEM instead of KERMIT, but I do know that there is nothing inherently wrong with KERMIT.

Before transferring, I followed the MetaKernel instructions exactly, using ON-A-F and then NO to wipe all memory. QUESTION: When I wipe memory that way, does that unmerge my 128k card? In other words, must I use MERGE1 after using ON-A-F? It would seem I don't have to do that, because when I wipe RAM and then type MERGE1 and ENTER, I get a Port Not Available error.

Here are my exact steps performed via my 5K iMac, Hoppi, and HP48GX (newest firmware), 128k FRAM card in Slot1 and merged:

1. ON-A-F then NO to wipe RAM.
2. RightShift (Blue) and 1 (I/O).
3. Arrow down to Name.
4. CHOOS
5. Remote PC files, then OK.
6. Arrow down to RECV.KER, then OK.
7. KGET (it will receive 10 packets without problem)
8. With Name still selected I press CHOOS again.
9. Remote PC files, then OK.
10. Arrow down to MKRAM.KER, then OK.
11. KGET (receives just over 900 packets then ABORTS for reasons unknown)

Settings within I/O:

FMT: ASC
XLAT: Newlyweds
CHL: 3
BAUD: 9600
PARITY: None

Cable is connected nicely to the Mac's USB at one end and the HP48 at the other.

Any thoughts on what the problem could be? (Batteries are still good -- no low battery warning at all.)

Thanks,

James W.
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01-11-2017, 09:00 PM
Post: #34
RE: Hoppi 1.3.2 Release
(01-11-2017 07:55 AM)JDW Wrote:  Any thoughts on what the problem could be?

Hi James,

Well, I've read that the HP48 slows down when receiving large files over kermit (see here), so this might be the reason Hoppi is timing-out. I've uploaded a temporary version of Hoppi with an enforced 30-second packet timeout for you to try, filename is Hoppi-1.3.4-T30.dmg.

As for the reason for your HP48 crashing I have no idea really, but then I've not tried receiving such large files before. Will try it myself now, but I don't have a memory card for my 48GX so can't try the Meta-kernel.

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01-12-2017, 12:32 AM
Post: #35
RE: Hoppi 1.3.2 Release
Hi Paul,

Thank you for preparing Hoppi-1.3.4-T30.dmg for me. I just tried it, as follows:

1. ON-A-F, then OK to wipe RAM.
2. Right-Shift & 1 to open I/O.
3. Used CHOOS to grab the RECV.KER file (10 packets received OK).
4. Used CHOOS to start download of MKRAM.KER, but my HP48 beeped and displayed the following error at 44032 bytes:

Error: Transfer Failed

Hoppi 1.3.4-T30 said:

Received ERROR message: Transfer Failed
MKRAM.KER
Bytes: 44032
ABORTED

At this point, how do I determine what the problem really is?

Is it Hoppi?
Is it my HP48?
Is it my 128k FRAM card?
Is it my cable?

But smaller files transfer perfectly and reliable all the time, even with the FRAM card inside and merged.

Very frustrating!
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01-12-2017, 01:21 AM (This post was last modified: 01-12-2017 01:22 AM by Han.)
Post: #36
RE: Hoppi 1.3.2 Release
(01-11-2017 07:55 AM)JDW Wrote:  Settings within I/O:

FMT: ASC
XLAT: Newlyweds
CHL: 3
BAUD: 9600
PARITY: None

Cable is connected nicely to the Mac's USB at one end and the HP48 at the other.

Any thoughts on what the problem could be? (Batteries are still good -- no low battery warning at all.)

Thanks,

James W.

Format should probably be BIN (binary) and not ASC. I'm not sure what is meant by "newlyweds" for XLAT (translation). My guess, though, is that translation should be set to 1. Did you also make sure to MERGE the RAM with a RAM CARD in SLOT1? This is required, as the built-in RAM is not enough to download Metakernel into the calculator.

EDIT: Also, what ROM version do you have. Some ROM versions have issues with file transfers if certain flags are not set/cleared properly. Consult the HP48 FAQ for more info on bugs.

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01-12-2017, 01:30 AM (This post was last modified: 01-12-2017 02:11 AM by JDW.)
Post: #37
RE: Hoppi 1.3.2 Release
(01-12-2017 01:21 AM)Han Wrote:  ...I'm not sure what is meant by "newlyweds" for XLAT (translation)... Did you also make sure to MERGE the RAM with a RAM CARD in SLOT1?
EDIT: Also, what ROM version do you have....

Stupid auto-correct!
XLAT = Newl
Newl = "Newline (Ch 10)"

The only other 2 choices for XLAT (character translations) are:
Chr 128-159
Chr 128-255

There is no way to change it to "1" so I don't understand what you mean.


Stupid auto-correct also made another goof in my earlier post. It should have read this:

CHK: 3 (checksum)
3 = Three-digit CRC

There are 2 other choices in that popup:
One-digit arith
Two-digit arith


When I type VERSION on my 48GX, I see the following:

"Version HP48-R"
"Copyright HP 1993"

Yes, I have the 128k FRAM card properly inserted into Slot1 and I used MERGE1 to merge it. But now that you bring that up, how do I UNMERGE it?

Any further thoughts in light of this?

Thanks,

James W.
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01-12-2017, 03:06 AM
Post: #38
RE: Hoppi 1.3.2 Release
(01-12-2017 01:30 AM)JDW Wrote:  how do I UNMERGE it?

[LS] [LIBRARY] [FREE1] will restore the card back to an independent RAM Card. See Chapter 28 in the 48GX Users' Guide

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01-12-2017, 04:10 AM (This post was last modified: 01-12-2017 06:07 AM by JDW.)
Post: #39
RE: Hoppi 1.3.2 Release
Bob,

Per your advice, I unmarked my 128k FRAM Card, turned off the calc, then removed it.

[Image: HP48_UnmergeMemory.png]

I then loaded Hoppi and started the transfer again. I downloaded all 10 packets of RECV.KER and then I downloaded 123904 bytes of MKRAM.KER before I got the following error:

Received ERROR message: Insufficient Memory MKRAM.KER ABORTED

I then wiped RAM and tried it again, this time only transferring MKRAM.KER. It got to 124928 before giving me the Insufficient Memory error.

Since I never got that far with the 128k FRAM card inserted and merged, such would indicate the FRAM card is at fault. (The seller said he tested the card extensively using his own Port Memory Stress Test prior to selling it to me.)


Here is a front & back scan of my FRAM card:

https://cl.ly/2q0E3P1j1M2S/FRAM_Card_128k_forHP48GX.jpg

The chip shown just to the right of the Write Protect Switch is marked as a "74HC00D". The chip directly below than is marked RAMTRON FM28V100-TG. Chips U21 & U26 are TI chips marked "NJ245" which seems to correspond to this "SN74LVCH8T245 8-BIT Dual-Supply Bus Transceiver". The last chip, U20, is an NXP chip marked "LVC16244A".

I know you can't always get accurate capacitance measurements in-circuit, but I used my Fluke meter to test the capacitance of the three brown caps (C1, C3, C4). They all tested to be roughly 10uF each.

Prior to purchase, I was informed that the 128k FRAM cards were relisted only after capacitance had been increased to enhance stability of the card. Any thoughts on the card design?
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01-12-2017, 01:38 PM (This post was last modified: 01-12-2017 01:39 PM by Han.)
Post: #40
RE: Hoppi 1.3.2 Release
(01-12-2017 01:30 AM)JDW Wrote:  Stupid auto-correct!

Hah! Makes sense now :-)

Quote:XLAT = Newl
Newl = "Newline (Ch 10)"

The only other 2 choices for XLAT (character translations) are:
Chr 128-159
Chr 128-255

There is no way to change it to "1" so I don't understand what you mean.

Newl and 1 are equivalent. In the "Transfer" menu (under I/O), it is displayed as Newl whereas if you press [Left Shift][1][ B] to view the IOPAR display, it is listed as 1. So what you have should be fine.

Quote:Stupid auto-correct also made another goof in my earlier post. It should have read this:

CHK: 3 (checksum)
3 = Three-digit CRC

There are 2 other choices in that popup:
One-digit arith
Two-digit arith


When I type VERSION on my 48GX, I see the following:

"Version HP48-R"
"Copyright HP 1993"

Yes, I have the 128k FRAM card properly inserted into Slot1 and I used MERGE1 to merge it. But now that you bring that up, how do I UNMERGE it?

Any further thoughts in light of this?

Thanks,

James W.

All your other settings look fine. I presume, then, that you switched from ASC mode over to BIN mode and that enabled you to download more of the metakernal file. Is this correct?

Here are the steps for installing metakernel.

1) MERGE your RAM card with main memory. (It takes more than 128KB of memory to download and install metakernal. This is why memory must be merged.)
2) Download the RECV.KER program -- this is the "installer" for metakernel.
3) Download MKRAM.KER -- this is the actual metakernel file.
4) Place 'MKRAM.KER' onto the stack (i.e. put the name of the variable holding the metakernel onto the stack)
5) Run RECV.KER with 'MKRAM.KER' on stack level one to "install"

You will not need to do anything to FREE your merged memory. This should be done by the installer.

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