Your Opinion about JeanMarc Baillard's RNGs

02252017, 10:02 PM
(This post was last modified: 02262017 08:04 AM by Namir.)
Post: #1




Your Opinion about JeanMarc Baillard's RNGs
Hi,
I was browsing in the old HP41C program library and I found this link for "Random Number Generators for the HP41" by JeanMarc Baillard. This link points out to five PRNGs (the first four are more serious). The first four HP1C programs seem very usable. Has anyone used these PRNGs? Your take on these algorithms? Namir 

02262017, 06:51 AM
Post: #2




RE: Your Opinion about JeanMarc Baillard's RNGs
Just looking quickly leads me to guess that program #2 is best. Which number to use for the multiplier depends on the continued fraction expansion of that multiplier and 9,999,999,967. One with smaller partial quotients will generally be better.
Program #1 isn't too bad; the multiplier (9821 in this case) seems designed to give the longest period modulo a power of 10. Again, one should choose a pair with a continued fraction expansion with small partial quotients. 

02262017, 03:17 PM
Post: #3




RE: Your Opinion about JeanMarc Baillard's RNGs
Note that though it references the wellknown formula xn+1 = FRC ( 9821 xn + 0.211327 ), his program 1 is actually xn+1 = FRC ( 9^8 xn + 0.236067977 ).
Programs 1 and 2 both sound interesting. As JeanMarc's post is 13 years old, I wonder if anyone has tested these RNG's using Knuth's spectral test or other methods? John 

02262017, 03:23 PM
(This post was last modified: 02262017 03:23 PM by Ángel Martin.)
Post: #4




RE: Your Opinion about JeanMarc Baillard's RNGs
(02262017 03:17 PM)John Keith Wrote: Programs 1 and 2 both sound interesting. As JeanMarc's post is 13 years old, I wonder if anyone has tested these RNG's using Knuth's spectral test or other methods? Here's the current link to his own web site, likely to be more current that the one in the forum: http://hp41programs.yolasite.com/alea.php 

02272017, 12:15 PM
Post: #5




RE: Your Opinion about JeanMarc Baillard's RNGs
(02262017 03:23 PM)Ángel Martin Wrote:(02262017 03:17 PM)John Keith Wrote: Programs 1 and 2 both sound interesting. As JeanMarc's post is 13 years old, I wonder if anyone has tested these RNG's using Knuth's spectral test or other methods? JeanMarc's site has mainly put the same information in a nicer and colored format. I did not see any significant change. Still good code in my book!! Namir 

03032017, 01:18 AM
Post: #6




RE: Your Opinion about JeanMarc Baillard's RNGs
There has been a lot of work in PRNGs in the last decade or so.
Many older PRNGs, particularly the simpler ones, are no longer considered adequate for many purposes, despite the fact that they pass the spectral test. While there are many prominent researchers in this area, I have appreciated the work done by George Marsaglia. See the Wikipedia page for more information. 

03032017, 05:56 AM
Post: #7




RE: Your Opinion about JeanMarc Baillard's RNGs
(03032017 01:18 AM)Chris Hanson Wrote: There has been a lot of work in PRNGs in the last decade or so. I do make a big distinction between simpler PRNGs for calculators and PRNGs for computer aplications. The two PRNGs belong in two different classes. The PRNGs by J.M Bailliard belong to vintage calculators and, in most likelihood, will not provide highstandard randomness for computer applications. Nevertheless, calculator PRNGs provide adequate random numbers for calculator games and simulations where the total number of random number generated is relatively small, compared to computer applications. 

03032017, 06:04 AM
(This post was last modified: 03032017 06:04 AM by Ángel Martin.)
Post: #8




RE: Your Opinion about JeanMarc Baillard's RNGs
(03032017 05:56 AM)Namir Wrote: I do make a big distinction between simpler PRNGs for calculators and PRNGs for computer aplications. The two PRNGs belong in two different classes. The PRNGs by J.M Bailliard belong to vintage calculators and, in most likelihood, will not provide highstandard randomness for computer applications. Nevertheless, calculator PRNGs provide adequate random numbers for calculator games and simulations where the total number of random number generated is relatively small, compared to computer applications. Complete agreement. On the CX of course the dilemma is nonexisting: TIME does the randomness for you... 

03032017, 08:09 AM
Post: #9




RE: Your Opinion about JeanMarc Baillard's RNGs
The 34S has a reasonably modern Tausworthe generator. I'd have liked to have included a Mersenne twister based RAND but there wasn't enough RAM for it. Neither of these is up to cryptographic standards but they are decent enough for other purposes.
Pauli 

03032017, 11:01 PM
(This post was last modified: 03042017 04:19 AM by Namir.)
Post: #10




RE: Your Opinion about JeanMarc Baillard's RNGs
(03032017 08:09 AM)Paul Dale Wrote: The 34S has a reasonably modern Tausworthe generator. I'd have liked to have included a Mersenne twister based RAND but there wasn't enough RAM for it. Neither of these is up to cryptographic standards but they are decent enough for other purposes. Pauli, I agree that the 34S has the best PRNG. The WP42S is in a class apart. Namir 

03042017, 12:10 AM
Post: #11




RE: Your Opinion about JeanMarc Baillard's RNGs
The microcontroller inside the dm42/wp43 does have a true random number generator inside it. We are at the threshold of a new kind of "randomness" in our machines.
César  Information must flow. 

03042017, 03:06 AM
Post: #12




RE: Your Opinion about JeanMarc Baillard's RNGs
(03032017 11:01 PM)Namir Wrote: ... I've never seen a WP24S. I'm guessing this was a WP34S instead? (Post 55) Regards, BrickViking HP50g Casio fx9750G+ Casio fx9750GII (SH4a) 

03042017, 09:08 AM
Post: #13




RE: Your Opinion about JeanMarc Baillard's RNGs
(03042017 12:10 AM)emece67 Wrote: The microcontroller inside the dm42/wp43 does have a true random number generator inside it. We are at the threshold of a new kind of "randomness" in our machines. I'm actually be a bit sceptical of TRNGs in hardware  I've seen more than a few that were biassed and that needed software assistance to produce good random output. Of course this fix is entirely possible in the dm42/wp34. I'd be more than able to implement a NIST SP 80090b compliant RNG.  Pauli 

03042017, 03:37 PM
Post: #14




RE: Your Opinion about JeanMarc Baillard's RNGs
(03042017 03:06 AM)brickviking Wrote:(03032017 11:01 PM)Namir Wrote: ... I do have my own unique version of the WP24S ... I just took an existing WP34S and relabeled it WP24S ... :) Namir 

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