Can any TI calc Equation Edit??!!
03-08-2014, 11:04 PM
Post: #1
 Matt Agajanian Senior Member Posts: 542 Joined: Dec 2013
Can any TI calc Equation Edit??!!
Hello all.

I've seen Sharp's EL-W516X, Casio's fx-115es and TI's own TI-36x Pro give the user interface which allows for direct equation entry just like HP-48 and 50's Equation Writer. BUT, after I spent a half hour at Office Max fiddling with a TI-89 Titanium to utter frustration & disappointment, I wonder if TI's N-Spire (or any other TIs for that matter) have the Equation Writer functionality that the TI-36x Pro, HP-48, HP-50G, Sharp EL-W516X and Casio fx-115es have?

Thanks
03-09-2014, 10:30 PM (This post was last modified: 03-09-2014 10:30 PM by Stefan.)
Post: #2
 Stefan Member Posts: 87 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Can any TI calc Equation Edit??!!
If by "Equation writer" functionality you mean that Inputs and outputs are shown as one would write them on paper or in Latex, then yes the NSpires can do that (I even think its the only mode), and actually really good, I would say its superior among my comparisons: fx-991ES+, Sharp EL-W506, HP Prime, Maple 12 (ordered from bad to good). Can't say anything about the HP-50g, but alone judging from the screen resolution I would guess its worse than the Prime (which in my opinion does rather poorly in this regard).

TI-89 and Voyages are basically from the 90s (and probably designed in the 80s :-D ), I would absolutely discourage one to buy them, unless you have to (e.g. some schools in Germany demand certain calculator models). They are probably the best example for overpriced electronics because of monopoly of some company (=TI).
03-09-2014, 11:59 PM
Post: #3
 Manolo Sobrino Member Posts: 179 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Can any TI calc Equation Edit??!!
Last expensive calculator I bought was a black HW4 TI 89 Titanium. I don't really like the screen, but it's definitely much faster than my old regular ones so I have mixed feelings about it. I could have got a shiny Nspire CX CAS for about that price, but I still prefer the 89's. It's just faster to go around and I don't want to recharge more batteries. Besides, Diff Eq. from Lars Frederiksen is enough reason to own one.

I never missed the equation writer (though I tried EQW and it was OK), but I suppose that if you got used to it you might feel like you do.
03-10-2014, 12:29 AM
Post: #4
 Stefan Member Posts: 87 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Can any TI calc Equation Edit??!!
(03-09-2014 11:59 PM)Manolo Sobrino Wrote:  [...] I don't want to recharge more batteries.[...]
^^ I've got exactly the opposite problem at the moment: My Nspire's batteries ran flat (I have the first version which runs on AAA batteries instead of rechargable LiIon) and I have no replacement at home. So I am glad the the Prime has a rechargeable LiIon battery (although everytime I use it I have to report a bug :-( ).

Quote: Besides, Diff Eq. from Lars Frederiksen is enough reason to own one.
There is a Diff Eq library for the NSpire aswell, however how it compares to the one you mention. However it could be based on the one by Lars Frederiksen aswell, because for example the Laplace library I have on my NSpire is based on the Laplace library by Lars Frederiksen for the Voyage (http://www.univers-ti-nspire.fr/activite...ress_id=82). I can't check the calc right now, as I've mentioned my batteries are empty.
03-10-2014, 11:19 PM
Post: #5
 Manolo Sobrino Member Posts: 179 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Can any TI calc Equation Edit??!!
(03-10-2014 12:29 AM)Stefan Wrote:  There is a Diff Eq library for the NSpire aswell, however how it compares to the one you mention. However it could be based on the one by Lars Frederiksen aswell, because for example the Laplace library I have on my NSpire is based on the Laplace library by Lars Frederiksen for the Voyage (http://www.univers-ti-nspire.fr/activite...ress_id=82). I can't check the calc right now, as I've mentioned my batteries are empty.

Thank you, I didn't know that. Apparently somebody ported the Advanced Laplace to the Nspire by rewriting it. I was talking about Diff Eq 2.06. I took a look at his TI-Basic code, it seems pretty terse so I can figure why nobody took the chance to migrate it.

Lars also wrote an RPN interface in 68k assembler for the 89. If the 89 had an inverse key I probably wouldn't consider any other RPN calculator, it's that good.

Other interesting things developed for the 89, not available in the Nspires, are for instance the Mathtools from Bhuvanesh Bhatt (then he went to work at Mathematica): http://www.technicalc.org/packages/mathtools/main.htm
03-11-2014, 11:29 PM (This post was last modified: 03-11-2014 11:30 PM by Matt Agajanian.)
Post: #6
 Matt Agajanian Senior Member Posts: 542 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Can any TI calc Equation Edit??!!
Hello all.

Several questions have been clarified, thanks to your elaborate posts.

First, since the N-Spire's entry logic is analogous to HP's Equation Writer,
the N-Spire's function set seems a subset of the 50g,
and the N-Spire runs off of a rechargeable pack,

it seems to me that the dynamic duo of my 50g and 48GX are more than what the N-Spire delivers.
03-12-2014, 07:52 AM
Post: #7
 HP67 Senior Member Posts: 654 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Can any TI calc Equation Edit??!!
(03-09-2014 10:30 PM)Stefan Wrote:  TI-89 and Voyages are basically from the 90s (and probably designed in the 80s :-D ), I would absolutely discourage one to buy them, unless you have to (e.g. some schools in Germany demand certain calculator models). They are probably the best example for overpriced electronics because of monopoly of some company (=TI).

I've been watching the prices on these since it would be neat to have an 84 and an 89 to do some Z80 and M68K coding on, respectively. Over the past few months the prices have gone from too high to just unbelievable.

TI-84 Plus Silver (15 MHz Z80-based calc with 24K RAM) $173.58 at Newegg and *only*$144.61 at WalMart.

TI-89 (12 MHz M68K-based calc with 256K RAM) $142.99 at Newegg, WalMart price similar. * Specs from ticalc.org, prices from store websites It ain't OVER 'till it's 2 PICK 03-12-2014, 08:18 AM Post: #8  Steve Simpkin Senior Member Posts: 626 Joined: Dec 2013 RE: Can any TI calc Equation Edit??!! Well yes. Processors that old and slow and memory that small is getting harder to find so it costs more. 03-12-2014, 08:29 AM Post: #9  HP67 Senior Member Posts: 654 Joined: Dec 2013 RE: Can any TI calc Equation Edit??!! (03-12-2014 08:18 AM)Steve Simpkin Wrote: Well yes. Processors that old and slow and memory that small is getting harder to find so it costs more. I'm sure TI has a hard time making them. Yes, that must be the explanation It ain't OVER 'till it's 2 PICK 03-12-2014, 04:38 PM Post: #10  Han Senior Member Posts: 1,881 Joined: Dec 2013 RE: Can any TI calc Equation Edit??!! (03-08-2014 11:04 PM)Matt Agajanian Wrote: Hello all. I've seen Sharp's EL-W516X, Casio's fx-115es and TI's own TI-36x Pro give the user interface which allows for direct equation entry just like HP-48 and 50's Equation Writer. BUT, after I spent a half hour at Office Max fiddling with a TI-89 Titanium to utter frustration & disappointment, I wonder if TI's N-Spire (or any other TIs for that matter) have the Equation Writer functionality that the TI-36x Pro, HP-48, HP-50G, Sharp EL-W516X and Casio fx-115es have? Please let me know. Thanks There is one for the TI-89 but it is not bulit-in. http://www.technicalc.org/packages/eqw/eqw.htm Graph 3D | QPI | SolveSys 03-12-2014, 04:49 PM Post: #11  Thomas Klemm Senior Member Posts: 1,447 Joined: Dec 2013 RE: Can any TI calc Equation Edit??!! XKCD: 1996 How come I can always reply to your posts with an XKCD comic? Cheers Thomas 03-12-2014, 11:08 PM Post: #12  Steve Simpkin Senior Member Posts: 626 Joined: Dec 2013 RE: Can any TI calc Equation Edit??!! I was about to respond to a post that was in response to my smiling comment on that the old, slow processors and small memory used in some of TI's graphing calculators must be the cause of their relativly high price, when the post disappeared? The post had commented that TI now uses ASICs to implement the descrete processors, memory and logic chips that they used to use to build their graphing calculators. After all, that is their core business and they are really experts at integration and cost reduction. I am sure they use modern production methods to reduce costs as well. If find it interesting that the TI 83 Plus with a 6MHz Z80, 32K of RAM, no USB and a 96x64 B/W display still sells for$100 at Walmart 15 years after it was introduced.
Must still be paying for the IP on that Z80 architecture
03-13-2014, 01:44 AM
Post: #13
 Han Senior Member Posts: 1,881 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Can any TI calc Equation Edit??!!
(03-12-2014 11:08 PM)Steve Simpkin Wrote:  If find it interesting that the TI 83 Plus with a 6MHz Z80, 32K of RAM, no USB and a 96x64 B/W display still sells for $100 at Walmart 15 years after it was introduced. Must still be paying for the IP on that Z80 architecture The students are indeed being ripped off you think about what they are getting for$100 dollars. Then there's also the cost of textbooks in the United States…

Graph 3D | QPI | SolveSys
03-13-2014, 07:10 AM
Post: #14
 Manolo Sobrino Member Posts: 179 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Can any TI calc Equation Edit??!!
(03-12-2014 11:08 PM)Steve Simpkin Wrote:  I was about to respond to a post that was in response to my smiling comment on that the old, slow processors and small memory used in some of TI's graphing calculators must be the cause of their relativly high price, when the post disappeared?

I was sincerely hoping no one would notice . I wasn't happy with the mood of it and it was getting late for copy editing, so I took it back, I'm sorry for the inconvenience.

The first part was OK:
Quote:Actually the 84 has an ASIC for both and the 89 has its memory in another ASIC. We're talking about Texas Instruments, they should know how to design these things.
(Eh? I'm quoting myself, how self-absorbed is that?)

At the second part I vented my obfuscated frustration about companies that don't design their ICs any more, maybe that's not fair and solely Kinpo is to blame.

I was thinking about the sudden calculator death syndrome (I own one of those hopeless sleeping beauties). After a bit of research I figured it was likely caused by writing the boot code in flash as everything else (I might be wrong, so if anybody really knows please enlighten me). You can be bored with Texas Inst., but at least they can avoid this as their ASICs should take care of storing these things.

And don't get me started with the really obnoxious things TI has done! For instance the absurd price of their calculators (although I doubt they are as cheap to manufacture as everybody assumes) comes from the even worse brain-damaging lock-in they have in education . The absurd limitations and encryptions they are keen to enforce, and above all their decision to kill and bury Derive, for which I will never forgive them.

But their hardware is fine and their programmers too.
03-13-2014, 07:32 AM (This post was last modified: 03-13-2014 07:33 AM by Manolo Sobrino.)
Post: #15
 Manolo Sobrino Member Posts: 179 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Can any TI calc Equation Edit??!!
(03-13-2014 01:44 AM)Han Wrote:  The students are indeed being ripped off you think about what they are getting for $100 dollars. Then there's also the cost of textbooks in the United States… Now, this really makes me angry: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB12...85295.html There is something very wrong when a textbook writer has 24M$ to spend because students trapped in loans are required to get some 300\$ Calculus book. Come on, it's Calculus, there are wonderful books out there for peanuts.

According to that logic, fancy calculators are a bargain. (My advice: get them at TAS, it's cheaper for you and just better for the kids who need to get rid of theirs.)
03-13-2014, 06:35 PM
Post: #16
 HP67 Senior Member Posts: 654 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Can any TI calc Equation Edit??!!
(03-12-2014 04:49 PM)Thomas Klemm Wrote:  How come I can always reply to your posts with an XKCD comic?

Another classic I think you have a good knack for this!

I have a buddy who could always find the perfect Dilbert for whatever happened to us at work that week.

It ain't OVER 'till it's 2 PICK
03-14-2014, 07:17 PM
Post: #17
 Dale Reed Junior Member Posts: 34 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Can any TI calc Equation Edit??!!
(03-13-2014 06:35 PM)HP67 Wrote:  I have a buddy who could always find the perfect Dilbert for whatever happened to us at work that week.

Yeah, but Scott Adams has a Dilbert collection (I think it's the 'Seven Years of Highly Defective People' one... IIRC) that is pre-sorted by job type, department, position, etc. So finding a dozen Dilbert strips for a given situation is a no-brainer. Like me.

Dale
04-06-2014, 06:52 PM
Post: #18
 debrouxl Member Posts: 258 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Can any TI calc Equation Edit??!!
Sorry for bumping the topic, I hadn't read this area of the board for a while
I'd just like to add to Han's post pointing eqw, that there's another great third-party equation writer for the TI-68k series: Samuel Stearley's Hail Equation Writer, http://www.stearley.org/exw.html

And I agree with the previous posters about the whole calculator market offering laughably underpowered hardware by modern standards, at insane price tags. Newer components wouldn't necessarily consume more energy: for instance, a Cortex-A5-based microcontroller instead of an ARM9-based microcontroller, or probably a Cortex-M using newer chip technology than a 68000 or Z80 ASIC from over a decade ago.
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