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Matt Agajanian · 03-20-2014, 09:29 PM

Hi all.

I just had quite an amusing conversation with a friend about, of all things, the progression of calculator entry logic methods. We traverses from the parentheses lacking SR-50 to today's monumental jump into direct logics such as Equation Writer, DAL, MathPrint and Casio's VPAM.

In addition, we discussed the technology leaps from register-based variables to the abilities and functionalities via direct algebraic and symbolic equation handling. Both, unheard of in the pre-HP-28C/28S days.

So, in light of the HP-65 and its mag card programability to today's capabilities of direct formula entry, full graphics as well as extensive symbolic math capabilities of the 50G, I say we've reached quite a plateau. Just as well, how do you see the calculator progress from these impressive tech achievements?

HP67 · (This post was last modified: 03-21-2014 11:55 AM by HP67.)

I'd rather see a quality focus than a feature focus. And I'd like to see a dedicated calculator processor again rather than using a generic microprocessor or microcontroller.

Computers and cellphones have calculators beat in the hardware department and that's never going to change. And there are already dedicated numerical packages for computers that are more powerful than what a calculator is going to be able to offer. There's no point banging heads against that stuff. It has its place. But a calculator also has its place.

For calculators to be viable and for HP to stand apart from the unwashed masses they should focus on their core values- putting out the best hardware and software possible and refining it. We really don't need a revolution in calculators, just careful evolution like HP used to be great at.

The 50g is a good example of something that went in the right direction and is very good but could be great. The power, memory capacity, SD card support, and screen are big improvements over the 48. Physically the device feels solid. Yet, improvements can be made. I'd like to see a new Saturn processor running at 100-250 MHz (and still provide HP 48 class battery life) and perhaps with optional 128 bit integer registers that could be run as 64 bit wide in compatibility mode until the OS could be reworked to exploit it. I'd like them to get rid of the algebraic mode entirely, give us a big ENTER key where it belongs, keep the USB connection but offer a real RS-232 port, revamp the IR so that it's compatible with the 48. The keyboard feels very good on mine but it's new and I have no idea how durable it will be in the long run. Double-shot plastic keys instead of the rubber ones would make it better like it was in the old days. The 50g is top-heavy because the 4 AAAs are at the top of the case. The balance is bad and the device wants to rotate out of your hand. The 48 was like a mid-engine car, it sits well in your hand and is balanced.

There's also a very big problem that somebody mentioned in the other thread about the issue of lead-free solder that is a ticking-timebomb for all electronics. There's no way around this so that makes the likelihood of us using 30 and 40 year old 50gs damn slim. Given everything is now more or less disposable, maybe it's just not reasonable to expect any device to last the test of time anymore. But then again HP has innovated enormously in the past. Maybe they can find a new construction process that overcomes these problems and once again ship devices that are built to last indefinitely. If they do, there will always be a small market that will be willing to pay premium prices for the best we can get.

I realize none of what I said is likely to show up on HP's radar, but since you asked Wink

Matt Agajanian · 03-21-2014, 05:26 PM

HP67, I couldn't have said it better myself!

One point that I truly wish HP reatained is the double-shot tactile keyboard. Plus, as they did with the 67, the triple function slanted key design was (and I think still is) the best keyboard motifs and designs.

Garth Wilson · 03-21-2014, 09:51 PM

Quote:the issue of lead-free solder that is a ticking-timebomb for all electronics. There's no way around this

It has to be lead-free for the European market, but not the American or that of many other countries. The PCB manufacturers and assembly houses we use offer lead-free but leaded is still rather standard. Because of the problems with lead-free and the long lives our products are expected to be in service (20 years or so), our company has basically said the European market is just not worth the trouble.

Didier Lachieze · 03-22-2014, 03:53 AM

(03-21-2014 09:51 PM)Garth Wilson Wrote:
Quote:the issue of lead-free solder that is a ticking-timebomb for all electronics. There's no way around this
It has to be lead-free for the European market, but not the American or that of many other countries.

Doesn't California requires lead-free solder ?

brouhaha · 03-22-2014, 04:01 AM

(03-22-2014 03:53 AM)Didier Lachieze Wrote: Doesn't California requires lead-free solder ?

No, California just requires a Proposition 65 Warning.

A friend suggested that California should put Prop 65 Warning signs right under the "Welcome to California" signs:

"WARNING: The State of California contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer and reproductive harm."

walter b · 03-22-2014, 05:42 AM

(03-22-2014 04:01 AM)brouhaha Wrote: "WARNING: The State of California contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer and reproductive harm."

One hypothesis about the decline of the Romans was telling it being caused by their lead drinking water pipelines. I know of a country feeling like the successor of the Roman Empire. Wink

d;-)

Thomas Radtke · 03-22-2014, 09:03 AM

(03-21-2014 09:51 PM)Garth Wilson Wrote: It has to be lead-free for the European market, but not the American or that of many other countries.

You know by chance whether lead-free solder was used in the 15C LE? I got one from the USA missing the usual RoHS sticker.

HP67 · 03-22-2014, 06:17 PM

(03-21-2014 09:51 PM)Garth Wilson Wrote:
Quote:the issue of lead-free solder that is a ticking-timebomb for all electronics. There's no way around this
It has to be lead-free for the European market, but not the American or that of many other countries.

This is potentially great news. All my 50gs were marked North America on the packaging. I wonder if anybody can verify whether HP is using regular solder or unleaded based on market, or whether it was cheaper to do it all unleaded.

(03-21-2014 09:51 PM)Garth Wilson Wrote: The PCB manufacturers and assembly houses we use offer lead-free but leaded is still rather standard. Because of the problems with lead-free and the long lives our products are expected to be in service (20 years or so), our company has basically said the European market is just not worth the trouble.

Interesting...

Thanks for your comments. I wasn't aware of these details.

HP67 · 03-22-2014, 06:18 PM

(03-21-2014 05:26 PM)Matt Agajanian Wrote: One point that I truly wish HP reatained is the double-shot tactile keyboard. Plus, as they did with the 67, the triple function slanted key design was (and I think still is) the best keyboard motifs and designs.

The 67 is certainly one of the most beautiful handheld devices of any kind I've seen. They really nailed that one.

Matt Agajanian · 03-22-2014, 10:58 PM

(03-22-2014 06:18 PM)HP67 Wrote:
(03-21-2014 05:26 PM)Matt Agajanian Wrote: One point that I truly wish HP reatained is the double-shot tactile keyboard. Plus, as they did with the 67, the triple function slanted key design was (and I think still is) the best keyboard motifs and designs.

The 67 is certainly one of the most beautiful handheld devices of any kind I've seen. They really nailed that one.

I'll second, third, fourth and fifth you on that one! The HP-67 is truly a work of art!

walter b · 03-23-2014, 05:54 AM

(03-22-2014 10:58 PM)Matt Agajanian Wrote:
(03-22-2014 06:18 PM)HP67 Wrote: The 67 is certainly one of the most beautiful handheld devices of any kind I've seen. They really nailed that one.

I'll second, third, fourth and fifth you on that one! The HP-67 is truly a work of art!

Thus, also the WP 34S has all its shifted labels located below of the primary labels - like the HP-67 Wink

d:-)

Massimo Gnerucci · 03-23-2014, 09:38 AM

(03-23-2014 05:54 AM)walter b Wrote:
(03-22-2014 10:58 PM)Matt Agajanian Wrote: I'll second, third, fourth and fifth you on that one! The HP-67 is truly a work of art!

Thus, also the WP 34S has all its shifted labels located below of the primary labels - like the HP-67

d:-)

Just the one thing I dislike on the 67 and the 34S... :/

HP67 · 03-23-2014, 12:23 PM

That's now. But back then what did you have to compare it to Wink

walter b · 03-23-2014, 01:43 PM

(03-23-2014 12:23 PM)HP67 Wrote: That's now. But back then what did you have to compare it to ;)

To which post does your response belong?? Please use <Quote> as recommended here more than once. TIA.

d:-/

d b · 03-24-2014, 07:49 PM

(03-22-2014 03:53 AM)Didier Lachieze Wrote:
(03-21-2014 09:51 PM)Garth Wilson Wrote: It has to be lead-free for the European market, but not the American or that of many other countries.
Doesn't California requires lead-free solder ?

Building code in my town since the very late '80s demands lead free solder for joining copper and brass in water pipes. I'm guessing this goes for all of California and maybe UBC (which is advisory for all 50 states) That might be where you heard it. The silver solder is stronger but needs more heat and is a little bit harder to use in tight positions and with valves. I've been lucky with it so far.
BTW: UBC is advisory not because of soft regulation, but because some solutions that work in Florida aren't so useful in northern Alaska and a house at 8000' in California or Colorado has different challenges than a shotgun house in New Orleans.