Valentín's website update thread - comments and appreciation

[EdS2]

As Valentín continues to update his site and announce updates on this updates-only thread, I thought it might be useful to have a thread dedicated to comments on and appreciations of his website. It's always nice to have some visibility of how one's work is received.

I for one do appreciate the effort which goes into producing and maintaining all the materials. And it's handy to know when something new has appeared - otherwise it might be some time before I happen to visit again.

My own favourites are I think the ones which highlight what can be done in programming HP calculators, and particularly mathematical explorations, whether trigonometry, fractals, primes, or something else.

Large, clear, and well-lit photographs are very nice to have of course, and perhaps a little easy to overlook, in case one is already familiar with a machine.

[David Hayden]

Wow! What an update. I just spent a couple of hours scanning through most of the files in the most recent update.

I was particularly happy to a scan of the Spanish 34C Advanced Math book, since Valentín had mentioned that in the past. I haven't had a chance to look through the programs yet, but I was really impressed with the detailed instructions. Most of all, I appreciate the program listings with comments on how the program works. One of my pet peeves in the calculator world is that we have so many great programs but most seem to be completely uncommented, leaving the curious reader to figure out how they work. Even though I don't speak or read Spanish, it will be worth it to study this book. I'll just have to get Scottie to translate for me.

I also enjoyed the article on the sodoku-like domino game (sorry, I can't find that now).

If I'm even thrown in solitary confinement with just one website to read, it will be Valentín's.

[Fernando del Rey]

I´ve been a close friend of Valentín for many, many years, and I feel privileged for that friendship. The memories brought back by these "HAM" materials are amazing!

I still owe a fully working 34C, so you can be sure, Valentín, that I am going to rerun some of those programs in the 34C Matemática Avanzada book.

Please keep your publishing effort going! I'm sure it is immensely appreciated by the community of HP calc fans, even though many of us don’t usually take the effort to post a short message to express it.

Stay healthy, Valentín, and let's try to see each other soon!

[BillBee]

The "Long Live" articles have always been my favorite and are a good read (& re-read too). The letter to the PPC Melbourne was just fantastic and a great example of the community spirit seen in the community (I had to order the PPC USB drive after reading that).

Sharing one's life work like Valentin has is truly a gracious act.

-Bill

[ijabbott]

(10-13-2021 05:58 PM)Valentin Albillo Wrote:      
Ok.   From now on, I'll announce all Updates to my site in this one post, which I'll edit as needed to reflect the most recent update. This way, this post will appear just once at the top of the posts in this Forum, thus not bothering uninterested people. Conversely, those actually interested should revisit this post and/or my site regularly to be aware of each new update.

Are you sure that merely editing an existing post moves its thread back to the top of the forum?

[rprosperi]

(10-13-2021 07:57 PM)ijabbott Wrote:  

(10-13-2021 05:58 PM)Valentin Albillo Wrote:      
Ok.   From now on, I'll announce all Updates to my site in this one post, which I'll edit as needed to reflect the most recent update. This way, this post will appear just once at the top of the posts in this Forum, thus not bothering uninterested people. Conversely, those actually interested should revisit this post and/or my site regularly to be aware of each new update.

Are you sure that merely editing an existing post moves its thread back to the top of the forum?

I'm fairly sure it does not do that.

Also Valentin, each post is of some certain maximum number of characters (idk size?), which will likely mean that you would eventually have to trim older update messages to make room for the new ones. I hope there is way to retain all the update notes, as I find your comments about the new items quite helpful to select items to read (and sometimes just download for later...).

[Valentin Albillo]

(10-13-2021 07:57 PM)ijabbott Wrote:  

(10-13-2021 05:58 PM)Valentin Albillo [...' Wrote:  I'll announce all Updates to my site in this one post, which I'll edit as needed to reflect the most recent update. This way, this post will appear just once at the top of the posts[...]

Are you sure that merely editing an existing post moves its thread back to the top of the forum?

Of course not, read the part I've bolded in your quotation of what I said, in fact I say exactly the opposite, to wit: editing a post will not make its thread appear at the top, which is exactly what I intended.

V.

[ijabbott]

(10-13-2021 09:10 PM)Valentin Albillo Wrote:  

(10-13-2021 07:57 PM)ijabbott Wrote:  Are you sure that merely editing an existing post moves its thread back to the top of the forum?

Of course not, read the part I've bolded in your quotation of what I said, in fact I say exactly the opposite, to wit: editing a post will not make its thread appear at the top, which is exactly what I intended.

V.

Sorry Valentin, I misread.

Personally, I don't see what is wrong with posting each update in its own thread and allowing people to comment on it. If they want the full update history, they can follow the link to your site.

[Valentin Albillo]

(10-13-2021 08:23 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  Also Valentin, each post is of some certain maximum number of characters (idk size?), which will likely mean that you would eventually have to trim older update messages to make room for the new ones.

The maximum number of characters per post must be enormous, just consider my posted original solutions to my latest S&S Math Challenge or even my recent post for the previous Update, i.e., Update #28.

As every Update from now on will take just one or two lines of added text at most, it would be possible to add hundreds of updates in the one post before the limit (if any) is reached, and well before that I'd have stopped posting in the MoHPC fora.

Quote:I hope there is way to retain all the update notes, as I find your comments about the new items quite helpful to select items to read (and sometimes just download for later...).

I don't understand. The previous posts in the Updates thread for Updates #1 to #28 will not be edited ever (at least by me), so they'll remain intact indefinitely. And the one post for all Updates #29, #30, ..., will not include comments about the new items, other than a brief 1- or 2-line indication of the Updates' content.

Judging by ijabbott's reply and yours, it seems my (allegedly) simple and clear post has been thoroughly misunderstood, can't figure why.

Best regards.
V.

[Valentin Albillo]

(10-13-2021 09:38 PM)ijabbott Wrote:  Sorry Valentin, I misread.

No problem.

Quote:Personally, I don't see what is wrong with posting each update in its own thread and allowing people to comment on it.

It's not a question of right or wrong, it's just a personal preference of mine. I've never done that, since Update #1, all following Updates have been posted to the one Updates thread, politely asking people to not post comments to it but to do it in some other thread(s) instead.

People can comment as much as they want in any other thread, either existing or newly created for the purpose, such as this one. The problem is, they don't want to comment in other threads or for that matter, simply to comment, period.

Regards.
V.

[Dave Britten]

I am eagerly - and somewhat patiently - awaiting the arrival of more PC-1211 materials.

[Valentin Albillo]

(10-13-2021 11:19 PM)Dave Britten Wrote:  I am eagerly - and somewhat patiently - awaiting the arrival of more PC-1211 materials.

Then you're all set for a nice surprise, I'm now processing all my vintage (ca. 1980) SHARP PC-1211 aka TRS-80 PC-1 materials for uploading in a next Update (perhaps #33) as part of my Project HAM. This includes several dozen programs for it.

Thanks for your interest, and regards.
V.

[rprosperi]

(10-13-2021 09:40 PM)Valentin Albillo Wrote:  The maximum number of characters per post must be enormous, just consider my posted original solutions to my latest S&S Math Challenge or even my recent post for the previous Update, i.e., Update #28.

As every Update from now on will take just one or two lines of added text at most, it would be possible to add hundreds of updates in the one post before the limit (if any) is reached, and well before that I'd have stopped posting in the MoHPC fora.

I am not sure of the limit, but I know when Sylvain was creating his epic posting of his HP-71B Compendium, he was forced to break it into 4 separate posts as a single post could not hold it all (though it was truly enormous...).

Since new updates will be limited to just a few lines, I agree this approach makes good sense. I thought future updates would be for many items, similar to past updates.

(10-13-2021 09:40 PM)Valentin Albillo Wrote:  I don't understand. The previous posts in the Updates thread for Updates #1 to #28 will not be edited ever (at least by me), so they'll remain intact indefinitely. And the one post for all Updates #29, #30, ..., will not include comments about the new items, other than a brief 1- or 2-line indication of the Updates' content.

Sorry, my intention was to say that if new updates were large, and were to eventually exceed the single-post limit, you would have to cut some of the earlier content in that new post. But ignore this, based on incorrect assumptions.

(10-13-2021 09:40 PM)Valentin Albillo Wrote:  Judging by ijabbott's reply and yours, it seems my (allegedly) simple and clear post has been thoroughly misunderstood, can't figure why.

I did indeed misread your post, and like ijabbott, thought your intention was to have a message indeed be at the top; a slower reading clarifies your point.

However, I'll add here that I truly prefer new posts (including updates) actually be at the top, to get my attention that there is something new to explore. Updating a post whose original posting may be weeks or months old means that it is down, well below the fold, and thus out of sight. It will only be seen by folks that think to bookmark the post and then go check it to see if there has been an update.

One easy way to achieve both is to copy/paste the prior posting into a new one, add the new content for the update and then post it. Once done, the prior post can be easily deleted, since all that content is now in the new one.

[ijabbott]

(10-14-2021 01:24 AM)rprosperi Wrote:  

(10-13-2021 09:40 PM)Valentin Albillo Wrote:  Judging by ijabbott's reply and yours, it seems my (allegedly) simple and clear post has been thoroughly misunderstood, can't figure why.

I did indeed misread your post, and like ijabbott, thought your intention was to have a message indeed be at the top; a slower reading clarifies your point.

However, I'll add here that I truly prefer new posts (including updates) actually be at the top, to get my attention that there is something new to explore. Updating a post whose original posting may be weeks or months old means that it is down, well below the fold, and thus out of sight. It will only be seen by folks that think to bookmark the post and then go check it to see if there has been an update.

One easy way to achieve both is to copy/paste the prior posting into a new one, add the new content for the update and then post it. Once done, the prior post can be easily deleted, since all that content is now in the new one.

Another option would be for Valentin to update the top post of the thread and post a reply when he has updated the top post. The same thread can be used for replies from other people. This is similar to how the "summation based benchmarks" thread works. I don't think the model of having replies in a separate thread has been working that well in the past for Valentin's previous updates, at least until the recent big update.

[EdS2]

As a possible compromise, Valentín (or anyone else) could comment on this thread when the update thread's head post has been revised, to let people know. (Because this thread points back to that one.)

(Personally I would also prefer to see a new post to the update thread to bring it to the top, but it is Valentín's thread to use as he sees fit.)

(I hope I've understood the intention correctly.)

[BillBee]

Make the thread a "sticky" and it will always be at the top.

For me, I use the "View New" and am always rewarded.

-B

[Valentin Albillo]

.
Hi, all:

Important note: all the many "you" that follow are generic "you", not referring to you as the particular reader of this, so don't take issue.

It seems I've failed to make myself clear. I thought people would get what I was implying in my post but it seems not, so I'll try again and this time I'll be utterly explicit.

I assumed people would've read (and taken notice) of what I said at the very end of the previous Update #28, under Last but not least. Seems it was also a wrong assumption.

There I stated that creating and posting those long and elaborated announcements took me considerable effort, in addition to scanning and making available the materials proper, and if I got no feedback at all then I wouldn't be able to distinguish between "People like them even if they don't provide any feedback, so my effort is worth it" and "People ignore them and that's why no one provides any feedback, so my effort is useless", so let's look at the evidence to see which is the case.

I posted three messages in separate threads and after several weeks elapsed, I found the following:

• My recent announcement of Project HAM got just 540 views in a whole month and only two people posted some brief comment on it. That number of views (and much more) is obtained by any casual post in a day or two, but it took me long to write the announcement telling people that I'd share 2,000 pages (now 4,000) of vintage (even historic) materials. Alas, the users of the Museum of HP Calcs didn't care at all. This alone was devastating.
        
• Then, the same happened to my post announcing mega-Update 28, which consisted of 25 files totalling 400 pages of contents. People can't (shouldn't) post there but it got less than 300 views in three weeks. It took me hours to create and post it, with all 25 descriptions and links for every file. And for less than 300 views ... in three weeks !
        
• I then announced the 2nd Anniversary of my site. Last year's announcement got 17 comments and 3,651 views. This year it got two comments and 275 views. 'Nuff said.

Also, a kind forum member, EdS2, created this very "Comments and appreciation" thread about my updates. Well, after more than two weeks it got only 340 views and only 4 people took the trouble to post anything, and that includes EdS2 himself and my friend FdR, clearly demostrating that most people don't care to comment or show appreciation for my updates.


So much for evidence. The conclusion is crystal-clear to me, so I've done exactly what I said I'd do in "Last but not least": no more wasting my time on lengthy and detailed announcements which most people don't care about, and no more announcements taking the top position in the Forum.

What now ? Well, people not interested in my materials won't have to see my occasional update announcements at the top, while the four or five people actually interested (you know who you are) will have to make the minimal effort of bookmarking my one Updates post and/or my site's main page, and checking for updates regularly, say once a week.

I know, I know, it's a tremendous effort having to click a bookmark once a week to check if there's something new, and you'd rather have the materials' availability and detailed descriptions spoon-fed to you but there you are ! The good news is that now you aren't expected to provide any feedback ... which you weren't doing, anyway ... !

It's also quite revealing that now that this "Comments ..." thread does get some comments, none of them are about the materials but about the post announcing them.

Reminds me of the old proverb: "Cuando el dedo apunta al cielo, el tonto mira el dedo".

Thanks for your comments about anything, and regards.
V.

[ijabbott]

Hi Valentin,

Have you noticed the correlation between the number of replies on a thread and the number of views?

[cdmackay]

hi Valentin,

I value your articles, posts, and collection. I never comment, because I feel i've nothing to say worthy of contribution in comparison, I just gaze in awe.

But perhaps a few more thank-yous would be in order, so… thank you for all your efforts!

[Siegfried]

(10-15-2021 09:38 AM)cdmackay Wrote:  I value your articles, posts, and collection. I never comment, because I feel i've nothing to say worthy of contribution in comparison, I just gaze in awe.

I share that sentiment. As I mainly and probably blasphemously collect calculators for nostalgia's sake and technical fascination most of your, Valentin's articles are far beyond my mathematical grasp. From time to time I resolve to improve my maths to be able to appreciate their finer points (and enjoy my HPs more) but life with a job and a family tend to get in the way. So I am still looking for a good book to revive my long-forgotten highschool maths and show a path beyond it.

I also like your "long live" articles and can't praise Isaac Newton's peek into 20th century technology enough. I am not a regular visitor even here, so I won't see every update, but please be assured that your articles are welcome and appreciated very much. Thank you and my apologies for not expressing that sooner!