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spiff72 · 07-22-2023, 03:38 AM

(07-21-2023 06:20 PM)Eric Rechlin Wrote: The Sharpie wipes off without a trace if you use isopropyl alcohol again to clean it, so you are not harming the calculator permanently.

However, some 30b calculators (a small percentage, well under 5% I'm sure) have the blue legends printed on with an alcohol-soluble ink, so the alcohol will wipe the blue key legends off too. But 95%+ of the time this won't be a concern. I've long wondered why some were like that -- I am pretty sure they were towards the end of the production run, maybe even at the end.

Interesting! I guess mine have been 95%-ers...

Are these 30b calcs out of production now?

**rprosperi** · 07-22-2023, 12:09 PM

(07-22-2023 03:38 AM)spiff72 Wrote: Are these 30b calcs out of production now?

Yes, for about 5 years now, maybe even a bit more?

Miguel Toro · 07-24-2023, 10:34 PM

Hi,

Just received the vinyl overlays for two WP34s from Jeff. They are perfect. One is for my old WP34s made from a HP20b. The old overlay from the keys, have lost their adhesive and are falling out. The other will be for a new WP34s I will make with a new HP 30s (luxury keys in comparison) I just bought.

Thank you, Jeff. Very great quality on these. I hope you will continue to make them available.

Cheers.

spiff72 · (This post was last modified: 07-24-2023 11:14 PM by spiff72.)

(07-24-2023 10:34 PM)Miguel Toro Wrote: Hi,

Just received the vinyl overlays for two WP34s from Jeff. They are perfect. One is for my old WP34s made from a HP20b. The old overlay from the keys, have lost their adhesive and are falling out. The other will be for a new WP34s I will make with a new HP 30s (luxury keys in comparison) I just bought.

Thank you, Jeff. Very great quality on these. I hope you will continue to make them available.

Cheers.

You're welcome - and thank you for the kind words!

spiff72 · 07-26-2023, 03:08 AM

Hello all...

Exciting times! (For me at least). The DM42 was delivered today, and I went straight to work on overlay trials for the C47. (I haven't even loaded C47 on it yet!)

I have a good template for fitting the key cutouts now, but only tested so far with paper overlays so I am not wasting my good vinyl.

One thing that surprised me is that it almost appears that the printed background for the DM42 is a separate piece that doesn't seem to be adhered all that well. It's hard to explain, but there seems to be some "float" when I push down on it - especially at the edges. This revelation made me a little nervous about sticking one of my overlays on right away out of concern what would happen when I try to peel it away. (I may try one from my old batch of vinyl (which I have plenty of!) with the weaker adhesive just to try it out).

I wasn't even sure that there were slots on one side of the calculator frame, but then I pushed down on the stock overlay and they became visible.

So I resurrected my idea of using the tabs to hold the overlay in place. I first tried with just a sheet of office paper and it seemed to engage in the slots reasonably well. I then moved on to a sheet of 28# office paper + a layer of my older glossy laminating sheets. Even this thickness seemed to fit in the slots. I feel like I could go even thicker than the .18mm, but probably not by much.

The trouble with this approach (tab attachment - no adhesive) is that while it may work on MY calculator, it may not work on all DM42 calcs. From what I have read here and on the other forum, the height of the opening on these slots is quite variable.

I'm including an imgur link to some photos of the glossy test sample for your reference (I would use the matte finish for the real deal once I get everything figured out). It's a little rough around the key cutouts because I haven't dialed in the cut pressure on the Cricut machine yet - it was set for the vinyl/laminate combo.

Photo Link

Work continues...

spiff72 · 07-26-2023, 04:07 AM

One more update:

I went ahead with making an adhesive overlay with my old vinyl and a matte lamination sheet. Photo link is below. I already made some adjustments to improve the contrast of the color of the blue and orange to make them more visible against the gray background, but I am not sure I did enough. I think I may need to tweak the colors a bit more - maybe make the background darker? The matte finish of the lamination sheet makes it look lighter...

My printer just doesn't recreate the colors in the graphics provided by the C47 team, so tweaks are necessary to even get them close! Then that matte lamination sheet throws another wrinkle in...

I also include a side-by-side image of the installed C47 next to my 50g overlay, which has a true black background (RGB 0,0,0), while the C47 color is RGB 70,70,70.

https://imgur.com/gallery/xyA0BNL

**rprosperi** · 07-26-2023, 11:52 AM

(07-26-2023 03:08 AM)spiff72 Wrote: [snip]

The trouble with this approach (tab attachment - no adhesive) is that while it may work on MY calculator, it may not work on all DM42 calcs. From what I have read here and on the other forum, the height of the opening on these slots is quite variable.

I'm including an imgur link to some photos of the glossy test sample for your reference (I would use the matte finish for the real deal once I get everything figured out). It's a little rough around the key cutouts because I haven't dialed in the cut pressure on the Cricut machine yet - it was set for the vinyl/laminate combo.

This overlay looks excellent, it should be even better in matte finish.

Regarding the slits, they are are all the same height. What varies is folks ability to estimate sub 1mm heights accurately, which unless done carefully can indeed be non-trivial to measure. Also, as you noted on your DM42, the default label can be tight or slightly raised at the edges, depending on the proximity of the adhesive underneath, which can lead to seeing the slits differently.

IMHO, inf you're going to use labels with an adhesive back, I would not attempt to also use tabs, as installing this would be a nightmare, and is almost certainly not needed. If removal of the vinyl overlay were to lead to partial separation of the original bezel, which I think quite unlikely, it can be easily restores with thin double-sided tape as is often used for phone repairs. I don't recall any reports of a DM42 bezel coming loose, though 1 or 2 users have reported removing them early on, and they noted this is harder to do than expected.

Continued good luck, these labels are excellent and are helping the community adopt these various machines for daily use in their new personalities.

spiff72 · 07-26-2023, 03:40 PM

(07-26-2023 11:52 AM)rprosperi Wrote:
(07-26-2023 03:08 AM)spiff72 Wrote: [snip]

The trouble with this approach (tab attachment - no adhesive) is that while it may work on MY calculator, it may not work on all DM42 calcs. From what I have read here and on the other forum, the height of the opening on these slots is quite variable.

I'm including an imgur link to some photos of the glossy test sample for your reference (I would use the matte finish for the real deal once I get everything figured out). It's a little rough around the key cutouts because I haven't dialed in the cut pressure on the Cricut machine yet - it was set for the vinyl/laminate combo.

This overlay looks excellent, it should be even better in matte finish.

Regarding the slits, they are are all the same height. What varies is folks ability to estimate sub 1mm heights accurately, which unless done carefully can indeed be non-trivial to measure. Also, as you noted on your DM42, the default label can be tight or slightly raised at the edges, depending on the proximity of the adhesive underneath, which can lead to seeing the slits differently.

IMHO, inf you're going to use labels with an adhesive back, I would not attempt to also use tabs, as installing this would be a nightmare, and is almost certainly not needed. If removal of the vinyl overlay were to lead to partial separation of the original bezel, which I think quite unlikely, it can be easily restores with thin double-sided tape as is often used for phone repairs. I don't recall any reports of a DM42 bezel coming loose, though 1 or 2 users have reported removing them early on, and they noted this is harder to do than expected.

Continued good luck, these labels are excellent and are helping the community adopt these various machines for daily use in their new personalities.

Thanks - my second post has a link showing the matte overlay applied to the "old" printed vinyl and adhered to my DM42.

And I agree - there is no reason for the tabs on an adhesive backed overlay.

I already peeled off the one from the photo I mentioned above - as I was peeling it was pulling the stock faceplate away from the calculator - it appears to me that the stock faceplate may be applied with adhesive only along the top and bottom edges of the faceplate, leaving the middle "floating". I will post a photo I took of the process showing the stock faceplate pulling away in the center later tonight.

spiff72 · 07-27-2023, 04:16 AM

I made some good progress tonight...

I spent some time tweaking the colors of the C47 overlay, changing the background to true black, and lightening up the blue and orange text slightly - they may actually be close to the original colors on the overlay in the repo because I darkened them slightly to try to improve contrast with the original background color.

Here is a side by side of the new color tweaks (installed on calc) and the one I posted about yesterday. Both are printed on my old vinyl and have the matte lamination sheet applied.

I am quite pleased with this arrangement. If anything, I could probably go a bit lighter yet on the orange and blue to help even more with contrast. As much as I like the matte lamination sheets, it really has a tendency to "cloud" the sharpness of the printed background. (I am NOT moving away from it though! It is still better than the glossy lamination sheets -- they were too reflective of overhead lighting.)

I also stopped at Staples on my way home from work looking for some light cardstock to try another (thicker) tabbed overlay. I rolled the dice on some 61# photo paper and lost. It is too thick compared to the 28# paper plus lamination sheet. I should have known since it is over double the thickness of the paper I already tried. I need to see if I can find some middle ground weight paper (around 45#)... I got the printed paper overlay installed except for the top right tab which I couldn't get into the slot. I did print another set WITH the lamination sheet to give one more try, but I am not holding my breath. I will give that one a go tomorrow.

Here is an imgur link for the new color scheme I mentioned above:
https://imgur.com/gallery/LYsnM0I

spiff72 · 07-28-2023, 01:03 PM

Hello again!

I have updated the first post to notify that the C47 vinyl adhesive label is now available for sale too!

Thanks

Gilles · 07-29-2023, 08:19 PM

(07-17-2023 01:06 PM)spiff72 Wrote: I just sent you a PM. I did respond to an email from who I think was you stating that you received them on July 14. Was there another message I missed?

It seems that i've a problem with the email in hpmuseum :/ My email begin by gilles.carp..... I try again this evening ;D

spiff72 · 07-30-2023, 05:37 AM

Hello again everyone...

I have been hard at work doing more trials on a tabbed version of my C47 overlay template, and I have successfully made one from some thicker (45# - 148 g/m^3) paper, and to a lesser extent from Canon 45# photo paper (170 g/m^3).

Both versions use my satin matte front lamination sheet and a clear Avery lamination sheet on the back (mainly for durability). The 40# paper version measures about 0.36mm thick, while the Canon version is very slightly thicker - around 0.37-0.38mm.

The unfortunate part of this is that the two paper overlays described here don't come out as dark as the vinyl ones once the lamination sheet is installed on the front face. The 40# paper is noticeably lighter, while the 45# photo paper may be slightly lighter than the vinyl. A couple of photos of them appear in the link below...

The one installed on the calculator is the 40# Amazon general purpose paper. The second photo shows the two tabbed overlays next to my vinyl overlay. 40# paper on the left, 45# Canon Photo paper in the middle, and the vinyl sample on the right:

https://imgur.com/gallery/EOJrBV9

Installation was a bit challenging - and even more so on the thicker Canon photo paper version. The method I have been using involves carefully inserting the tabs on the left side of the calculator frame, and then bowing the overlay upward in the middle, and stabbing the RH tabs into position, keeping them pointed downward as best I can. I then carefully squish the tabs into the slots one at a time. It usually takes some coaxing with the back edge of an X-acto knife to massage them into place.

I am considering making these available, but my hesitation is around the apparent variability of the slots in the frame of various DM42 calculators. Mine is brand new, so presumably it was manufactured recently. I have no idea if this would work in EVERYONE's DM42.

I'm considering offering a limited number of them available as a trial run - perhaps at a discount to get some feedback from other owners.

Would anyone be interested in this?

I would probably limit it to 2 per person, and maybe make the price 2 for $5 (plus normal shipping - $1 for USA and $3 for international since this would fall below the 1oz limit). There would have to be an understanding that there are no guarantees that these will work on every calculator - so there is a risk that you may order these and not be able to use them. Nothing would stop someone from chopping off the tabs and using some adhesive (removeable!) to hold them in place. If anyone wants to give it a shot, I would likely do the Canon paper for these since they look better/darker. I will have to limit how many I offer - maybe 10 orders of 2 tabbed overlays - first come, first served.

If you want to roll the dice and give them a try, please follow the ordering instructions the first post of this thread, but please use the subject line "Tabbed Overlay Trial Order"!

Thanks!

spiff72 · 07-31-2023, 03:16 PM

(07-30-2023 05:37 AM)spiff72 Wrote: Hello again everyone...

I have been hard at work doing more trials on a tabbed version of my C47 overlay template, and I have successfully made one from some thicker (45# - 148 g/m^3) paper, and to a lesser extent from Canon 45# photo paper (170 g/m^3).

Both versions use my satin matte front lamination sheet and a clear Avery lamination sheet on the back (mainly for durability). The 40# paper version measures about 0.36mm thick, while the Canon version is very slightly thicker - around 0.37-0.38mm.

The unfortunate part of this is that the two paper overlays described here don't come out as dark as the vinyl ones once the lamination sheet is installed on the front face. The 40# paper is noticeably lighter, while the 45# photo paper may be slightly lighter than the vinyl. A couple of photos of them appear in the link below...

The one installed on the calculator is the 40# Amazon general purpose paper. The second photo shows the two tabbed overlays next to my vinyl overlay. 40# paper on the left, 45# Canon Photo paper in the middle, and the vinyl sample on the right:

https://imgur.com/gallery/EOJrBV9

Installation was a bit challenging - and even more so on the thicker Canon photo paper version. The method I have been using involves carefully inserting the tabs on the left side of the calculator frame, and then bowing the overlay upward in the middle, and stabbing the RH tabs into position, keeping them pointed downward as best I can. I then carefully squish the tabs into the slots one at a time. It usually takes some coaxing with the back edge of an X-acto knife to massage them into place.

I am considering making these available, but my hesitation is around the apparent variability of the slots in the frame of various DM42 calculators. Mine is brand new, so presumably it was manufactured recently. I have no idea if this would work in EVERYONE's DM42.

I'm considering offering a limited number of them available as a trial run - perhaps at a discount to get some feedback from other owners.

Would anyone be interested in this?

I would probably limit it to 2 per person, and maybe make the price 2 for $5 (plus normal shipping - $1 for USA and $3 for international since this would fall below the 1oz limit). There would have to be an understanding that there are no guarantees that these will work on every calculator - so there is a risk that you may order these and not be able to use them. Nothing would stop someone from chopping off the tabs and using some adhesive (removeable!) to hold them in place. If anyone wants to give it a shot, I would likely do the Canon paper for these since they look better/darker. I will have to limit how many I offer - maybe 10 orders of 2 tabbed overlays - first come, first served.

If you want to roll the dice and give them a try, please follow the ordering instructions the first post of this thread, but please use the subject line "Tabbed Overlay Trial Order"!

Thanks!

I have filled 5 orders for these tabbed overlays, so I still have room in my presumed run of 10 orders for some more. If I fill the total of 10 I may expand it a bit more if there's enough interest...

Thanks to those who have already ordered! I am looking forward to finding out how many of them fit...

Also, I did send in a note to swissmicros a few days ago to inquire if they could provide any info on the tolerance of those slots, but I didn't hear back yet. (I am not sure that I will hear anything, but maybe I will get lucky...)

toml_12953 · 08-01-2023, 01:01 AM

I received the adhesive C47 overlay for the DM42 today. Wow! It goes on easily, even for me with my shaky hands. Once on, it looks like it's a native part of the machine. Of course I can't talk about the durability or how well the adhesive holds after long use yet but other than that, it was a very positive experience.

Jeff sent out the overlay as quickly as anyone could and seems to genuinely desire that the customer has a positive experience.

Just in case you couldn't tell, I'm a very satisfied customer!

spiff72 · 08-06-2023, 03:43 AM

UPDATE 8/05/23:
Thanks to a botched software update from Cricut for their DesignSpace software, I am now unable to make any more overlays. Their software automatically updates itself, and it has a bug that causes all of the cuts to misalign with the printed graphics by about 1.5mm in two directions! There are a lot of angry Cricut users out there unable to fill orders, and I am one of them. As a result, I am going to be putting a hold on accepting any more orders until this software is updated again to fix the issue. You can still email me at the link in the first post to hold a place in line for future orders, but I won't be sending my PP/Venmo info in response so I won't have to hold your money while we wait for a fix.

Sorry for the inconvenience!

spiff72 · 08-06-2023, 03:52 AM

On a more positive note, I have finally started working on a new WP43 overlay. I have it "mostly done" to a point where it is ready for a trial install, but this @#%!#$ software update threw a monkey wrench in the works!

The following image shows a couple of test cuts I did while trying to troubleshoot the issue. One was done with "bleed" enabled, and the other was not. This is just a feature in the software that adds extra printing around the edges of graphics to make sure there isn't any white edge visible after the cuts. You can see the misalignment of the cuts relative to the graphics...

https://imgur.com/gallery/dxs6Ljt

Gilles · (This post was last modified: 08-07-2023 11:36 PM by Gilles.)

The overlay newRPL for HP50g is perfect ! The newRPL HP39gs is nice too (but the original colors of the 50g are far better) and this calc was unusable in newRPL without overlay because all keys change...

spiff72, you are a master ;D

It's not too difficult to set up. I used tweezers and patience ;D As the keys of the HP39 and 50 "pivot" a little upwards, you just have to be careful to leave a little space above the keys for the final cover. I am really very satisfied. We'll see if it holds up well over time. The 50g is even more beautiful with this matte black than with the slightly shiny original color. Cheer !

spiff72 · 08-07-2023, 11:49 PM

(08-07-2023 11:31 PM)Gilles Wrote: The overlay newRPL for HP50g is perfect ! The newRPL HP39gs is nice too (but the original colors of the 50g are far better) and this calc was unusable in newRPL without overlay because all keys change...

spiff72, you are a master ;D

It's not too difficult to set up. I used tweezers and patience ;D As the keys of the HP39 and 50 "pivot" a little upwards, you just have to be careful to leave a little space above the keys for the final cover. I am really very satisfied. We'll see if it holds up well over time. The 50g is even more beautiful with this matte black than with the slightly shiny original color. Cheer !

Thanks!

spiff72 · 08-08-2023, 02:48 AM

I'm back in business!

I found a workaround that involved "fudging the numbers" during calibration to trick the machine into shifting the cuts back to the right position. I will have to recalibrate when the software is updated, but I can at least continue making overlays now...

Now I have a question for everyone about my C47 overlays:

Over the weekend, I decided to completely rebuild the overlays for the C47 from scratch. Previously I was just using the image provided in the repository, and added some cuts to make the key openings, along with some photo editing to make the colors contrast better (black background, different shades of orange and blue, and pure white for the alpha characters). I designed a DB48X overlay from scratch initially, and I am leveraging that work to try to improve the C47 overlay. (I also have a WP43 overlay in the works).

The new version has larger and bolder fonts and I think it is much easier for my aging eyes to read. I am attaching a photo of the two side by side (top by bottom actually). The original version is on top, and the new version is on the bottom. I'm curious to hear feedback on the changes from everyone...

I would prefer NOT to offer both - since it gets confusing for buyer and for me. I would rather just make a running change and anything ordered after a certain point gets the new one.

https://imgur.com/gallery/pkCGNho

Massimo Gnerucci · 08-08-2023, 05:01 AM

I prefer the upper (older) one, even to my old eyes. :)