DM 15L two line display

[Jase]

(12-21-2024 05:00 PM)dm319 Wrote:  Anyway, here is a quick video of it running.

Thanks!
Can you toggle between traditional and 2-line mode, or is the firmware set as only one or the other?

[AnnoyedOne]

(12-21-2024 05:40 PM)Jase Wrote:  Can you toggle between traditional and 2-line mode...

Based on a quick glance of the online (only--link posted earlier) manual you can toggle between the two.

A1

PS: Not a "toggle" setting but you can easily swap between the two.

[Jase]

Awesome. Thanks, A1.

[AnnoyedOne]

(12-21-2024 05:38 PM)dm319 Wrote:  Press g-on to enter the constant/conversions. The x<>y switches between the two sets.

I wish that I'd had that about 44 years ago. Instead I had to look in the back of a physics textbook (now gone).

A1

[rprosperi]

(12-21-2024 03:46 PM)Jase Wrote:  

(12-21-2024 01:52 PM)AnnoyedOne Wrote:  As far as I know the DM15C uses that exact same firmware as the DM15L so yes

Man, that would be cool if the mini-me gets a 2-line option.

To be clear:

-- Original DM15 cc-sized units cannot use the new f/w for the DM15L

-- Recently introduced DM15C cc-sized units do use the same f/w as the DM15L

[rprosperi]

(12-21-2024 05:16 PM)AnnoyedOne Wrote:  

(12-21-2024 05:00 PM)dm319 Wrote:  Anyway, here is a quick video of it running.

Thanks for that. Now if only the new manual (link above) was also in PDF format for offline reading.

A1

A PDF version will be coming, most likely some time after Christmas...

Meanwhile, please use the online version (which you can use locally by saving all the files locally in a single folder) and report any typos or actual issues in the SwissMicros Forum (https://forum.swissmicros.com/viewforum.php?f=8)

[Steve Simpkin]

(12-21-2024 06:12 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  

(12-21-2024 05:16 PM)AnnoyedOne Wrote:  Thanks for that. Now if only the new manual (link above) was also in PDF format for offline reading.

A1

A PDF version will be coming, most likely some time after Christmas...

Meanwhile, please use the online version (which you can use locally by saving all the files locally in a single folder) and report any typos or actual issues in the SwissMicros Forum (https://forum.swissmicros.com/viewforum.php?f=8)

Here is a print PDF save of the SwissMicros Voyager Series User Manual made today to use until the official one is available.
Voyager Series User Manual - PDF saved 2024-12-21

[dm319]

A couple of photos in bad light:


The constant menu:

[Johnh]

Great to see this released!

Also, dm319's short video shows that the machines looks really clear, both its display and its keyboard graphics.

Now we have two 2-line firmwares to consider? This through Moravia and also from jedbedeo:

https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-20...ight=dm15l

Setting aside resolving any remaining issues at beta stage, can anyone comment on differences in feature sets?

Also, given the dot-matrix display, I'm particularly interested in the potential for Apha features, op-code program listing's instead of just numeric key codes, any other apha features possible? I assuming alpha prompts when running programs probably not?

[dm319]

(12-21-2024 08:58 PM)Johnh Wrote:  Now we have two 2-line firmwares to consider? This through Moravia and also from jedbedeo:

I'm sure you meant to say SwissMicros and jedbedeo!

(12-21-2024 08:58 PM)Johnh Wrote:  Setting aside resolving any remaining issues at beta stage, can anyone comment on differences in feature sets?

I should really give jedbedeo's firmware a try, but this isn't technically my calculator. Though I really want one now!

One big difference between the two is that this is running original Nut code of the HP-15c, to 10 digit BCD precision. Jedbedeo's firmware is a complete re-implementation running on bare metal and using 15-16 digit binary precision. I'm not up to speed on everything that's been implemented so far though.

(12-21-2024 08:58 PM)Johnh Wrote:  Also, given the dot-matrix display, I'm particularly interested in the potential for Apha features, op-code program listing's instead of just numeric key codes, any other apha features possible? I assuming alpha prompts when running programs probably not?

Playing around with it, you feel that things could be taken even further. For example, there is easily space to split the display horizontally for easier visualisation of complex numbers.

[Steve Simpkin]

(12-21-2024 08:58 PM)Johnh Wrote:  Great to see this released!

Also, dm319's short video shows that the machines looks really clear, both its display and its keyboard graphics.

Now we have two 2-line firmwares to consider? This through Moravia and also from jedbedeo:

https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-20...ight=dm15l

Setting aside resolving any remaining issues at beta stage, can anyone comment on differences in feature sets?

Also, given the dot-matrix display, I'm particularly interested in the potential for Apha features, op-code program listing's instead of just numeric key codes, any other apha features possible? I assuming alpha prompts when running programs probably not?

Bob Prosperi showed a preview of what would be available for the DM15/DM15C in his HHC 2024: Update on SwissMicros’ Product Line presentation video. He shows examples of alpha op codes above the key codes in program mode and alpha error messages starting at 30:32.
https://youtu.be/ADUmQ5LX8gU?si=yjfgo7IMAaxEep2_&t=1832
.
   

[JAK08]

(12-21-2024 06:12 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  and report any typos or actual issues in the SwissMicros Forum (https://forum.swissmicros.com/viewforum.php?f=8)

So I should point out over there how start bootloader and system info state the keys for 1-5 yet start bootloader says its bound to 1-4?

Edit:

Also I see that the DM11 & DM12 both list that they have shortcuts for 2 line and 1 line mode. Does this mean that they gained this ability too or is it an error? The change-log only mentions the DM15 & DM16 with this functionality.

Also I need to have my posts approved on swissmicros forum. I posted there so we'll see.

[rprosperi]

(12-21-2024 10:43 PM)JAK08 Wrote:  Also I see that the DM11 & DM12 both list that they have shortcuts for 2 line and 1 line mode. Does this mean that they gained this ability too or is it an error? The change-log only mentions the DM15 & DM16 with this functionality.

The 2-line calculator feature is only for the DM15L/15C and DM16L, but the Setup Menu is available for all models (which uses 2 lines). It's indeed misleading to indicate the 11 and 12 have this option; while you can set the option, the feature itself is not implemented.

[dm319]

I got a nicer shot of it today:



And I also did a more in depth video. You'll have to excuse the quality, it was a first take only! Also, after I stopped it I realised I should have made some comment about what I thought of it*, which is a shame, but it wasn't a review I suppose.

https://youtu.be/XBZUv70-IDw?si=B_OP4i5EWxHLihg8

*which is I really really like it. It is absolutely delightful.

[AnnoyedOne]

(12-21-2024 08:58 PM)Johnh Wrote:  Setting aside resolving any remaining issues at beta stage, can anyone comment on differences in feature sets?

This firmware release has nothing to do with Moravia. It is from SwissMicros who makes clones of a few HP calculators. Inlcuding the DM15L which is a HP-15C look-alike.

With this firmware the main differences between the (Moravia) HP-15C CE and (SwissMicros) DM15L are

• The HP-15C CE has a HP-16C mode (for free) but only a single-line 7-segment display.
• The DM15L doesn't have a 16C mode (SwissMicros sells the DM16L) but does have a (2-line now) dot-matrix display.
  

Both emulate original HP code. The jedbedeo firmware is a simulator running on SwissMicros hardware.

FYI the SwissMicros firmware shows (on the second line if enabled):

• The X and Y register contents (see dm319's video).
• Instruction mneumonics (and codes) in program mode.
• Function name preview (not sure what this means).
• Text error messages (vs numbers).
  

BTW both allow memory contents to be saved/restored and both work with Pierre Excel spreadsheet (and hence data exchange with emulators/simulators).

Which is "better"? About equal I'd say but it really depends on you. The DM15L, with this new firmware, is "nice" but I already have a HP-15C and HP-15C CE so I need to "think about it". Other "irons in the fire" and all that.

To dm319: That DM15L is all yours when your son is asleep.

Quote:Possession is nine tenths of the law.

Or you could buy a second one.

A1

[rprosperi]

(Yesterday 01:30 PM)AnnoyedOne Wrote:  [*] Function name preview (not sure what this means).

Fundamentally, this means you have not used an HP-41C, lol.

This feature, boldly stolen from the 41C family means you can press the key and hold it down for over 0.5 second and the unit will display the selected function on the screen to verify the intended key-press.

If you continue holding the key down, it will eventually (btwn 1-2 secs) show NULL and cancel that key-press.

If you release the key before the timeout, the function is executed as if you had just pressed and released the key.

Why was this added? The 41 let you reassign the keyboard so what was printed on the key was not always what you got when pressing it; the preview let you be sure what you are getting with this key.

Why is this needed on the 15C where there are no assignable keys? 2 answers:

1. When in USER mode the unshifted A-F keys act as GSB A...GSB F rather than the intrinsic functions, so it is still kinda assignable, so the preview confirms the actual result pressing it

2. It's a much handier feature than one might expect, if you're accustomed to using it. Some users (typically non-41 users) pooh-pooh it as "I know which key I'm pressing, I don't need to have it confirmed" and they can simply ignore it, as press and release acts as normal, however the feedback is useful when interactively crucnching numbers in the stack, as quite often (oddly) we realize we've pressed the wrong key while still pressing it, so you can keep holding it down to cancel the function without losing the stack values.

Also, note that this works in the DM16L as well.

[Nigel (UK)]

(12-21-2024 06:06 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  

(12-21-2024 03:46 PM)Jase Wrote:  Man, that would be cool if the mini-me gets a 2-line option.

To be clear:

-- Original DM15 cc-sized units cannot use the new f/w for the DM15L

-- Recently introduced DM15C cc-sized units do use the same f/w as the DM15L

I think that if your cc-sized unit has been successfully updated to firmware version > 16 then you can have the two line display. Here's mine:



It is cool!

(Note: my machine may not actually be a DM-15 Silver Edition inside, but it's still pretty old - 2017, I think.)

Nigel (UK)

[ctrclckws]

(12-21-2024 03:46 PM)Jase Wrote:  

(12-21-2024 01:52 PM)AnnoyedOne Wrote:  As far as I know the DM15C uses that exact same firmware as the DM15L so yes

Man, that would be cool if the mini-me gets a 2-line option.

It does work on the older credit card size DM15 and DM16

[AnnoyedOne]

(Yesterday 02:01 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  ...this means you have not used an HP-41C, lol.

Correct. I've only seen one, once, in 1983 or so.

They were way too expensive back then (3x plus the HP-15C) and offered nothing more for me.

Thanks for the "function preview" detail.

A1

PS: I've never wanted (now or ever) a 41C, its variants, or clones.

[dm319]

(Yesterday 01:30 PM)AnnoyedOne Wrote:  With this firmware the main differences between the (Moravia) HP-15C CE and (SwissMicros) DM15L are

• The HP-15C CE has a HP-16C mode (for free) but only a single-line 7-segment display.
• The DM15L doesn't have a 16C mode (SwissMicros sells the DM16L) but does have a (2-line now) dot-matrix display.
  

And to add - the 15L remains in production and has a titanium back, the 15c has bevelled HP keys with long key travel, will be slightly lighter and slightly slimmer in the hand. (though I don't have a HP-15c/CE, but I think this is correct).

(Yesterday 01:30 PM)AnnoyedOne Wrote:  To dm319: That DM15L is all yours when your son is asleep.

Quote:Possession is nine tenths of the law.

Or you could buy a second one.

Got to admit, coveting it a lot.