Is the 12C SDK still available?

[Katie Wasserman]

(11-24-2015 03:58 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  I wonder if anyone accidentally drew a diagram of where the accidental connector was placed? You know, just to document the accident accurately...

I accidentally opened up the latest version of the 12C then my camera fell off the shelf above it taking some pictures on its way down:

overview

closeup

closeup after scrapping off the solder mask where the resistors (zero ohm would be fine I think) and USB connector go (really bad job, but you get the idea)

edge view of where the case will need to be cut

[cyrille de brébisson]

Hello,

If my memory serves me well, there is also 1 or 2 other accidental connectors which are available. JTAG and GPIO. I do not remember which is which (JTAG has a small pitch while GPIO has a larger one)...

Have you looked under the white plastic sheet?

Note, you can turn ON USB on the calculator by pressing g and ENTER while turning the calculator ON. This, in turns allows you to send key presses commands to the calculator and request screen shots. the calculator enumerates as HID.

Cyrille

[walter b]

Hope your camera survived the accident (e.g. by a cushion forgotten accidentally on the floor). Quite a nice thread of accidents so far.

d:-)

[Massimo Gnerucci]

We should also thank the accidental auto-scrapping...

[matthiaspaul]

(11-25-2015 04:51 AM)Katie Wasserman Wrote:  closeup after scrapping off the solder mask where the resistors (zero ohm would be fine I think) and USB connector go (really bad job, but you get the idea)

J4
Pin 1: VBUS
Pin 2: USBD-
Pin 3: USBD+
Pin 4: ID (not connected)
Pin 5: GND

R105: 20R
R104: 20R
R28: ? (appears to be in GND path, then probably 0R or a ferrite bead)
R29: ?
C21: ca. 10uF/10V/X7R or 100nF/10V/X7R

J6: PH 2x5 / PT2.54mm? / straight / SMD
J3: PH 2x4? / PT? / straight / SMD

Greetings,

Matthias

[Katie Wasserman]

(11-25-2015 07:38 AM)matthiaspaul Wrote:  J6: PH 2x5 / PT2.54mm? / straight / SMD
J3: PH 2x4? / PT? / straight / SMD

Based on Cyrille's comments it would seem that J3 (2 x 5, I think) is JTAG and J6 is for GPIO.

I didn't look under the plastic sheet however, so there might be some other pads there.

[walter b]

For sure! The way it looks it must have been the renown accidental cat trying to catch the pcb in flight though to no avail.

d:-)

[Tim Wessman]

(11-24-2015 03:33 AM)Dwight Sturrock Wrote:  Awesome! Even better than HP selling us the "not JTAG just some crazy thing the HP came up with for these calculators" cables.

Well, the restriction was that NO component could be involved that would impact the cost of each unit. Hence the pins on the cable, and a little clip to hold then on the pads. Pads cost nothing. Even tiny costs cut into profits....

Either it was a wonky cable, or wouldn't happen. They probably could have found something a bit more standard though, but I'm guessing it was done as quickly/cheaply as possible.

[Katie Wasserman]

(11-25-2015 06:15 PM)Tim Wessman Wrote:  Well, the restriction was that NO component could be involved that would impact the cost of each unit. Hence the pins on the cable, and a little clip to hold then on the pads. Pads cost nothing. Even tiny costs cut into profits....

Either it was a wonky cable, or wouldn't happen. They probably could have found something a bit more standard though, but I'm guessing it was done as quickly/cheaply as possible.

The "wonky" cable worked out in the end for most of us and I'm sure that there would have been more than enough of them to go around had it not been for the popularity of the WP34. I like the new solution to this problem that allows for a standard USB plug to be added relatively easily. Now we need another WP34-like project for the 12C, or maybe the 10bii+. I haven't looked but can I assume that the same accident happened there too?

[walter b]

A standard USB plug is a good thing for certain as everybody who installed Harald's USB board in an HP-30b can confirm. But before anybody spends time for a repurposed HP-12C or HP-10bii+ with or without a plug please check their displays: you can't put in more in a calculator than its display is able to return. I've complained quite frequently here about the hi-tech LCD of the 20b and 30b, but the displays of the 12C and 10bii+ are even inferior, AFAIK. That's the reason why the display is the pinnacle of the 43S, whenever it's going to happen.

Just my 20m€.

d:-)

[ElectroDuende]

(11-25-2015 09:36 PM)walter b Wrote:  A standard USB plug is a good thing for certain as everybody who installed Harald's USB board in an HP-30b can confirm. But before anybody spends time for a repurposed HP-12C or HP-10bii+ with or without a plug please check their displays: you can't put in more in a calculator than its display is able to return. I've complained quite frequently here about the hi-tech LCD of the 20b and 30b, but the displays of the 12C and 10bii+ are even inferior, AFAIK. That's the reason why the display is the pinnacle of the 43S, whenever it's going to happen.

Just my 20m€.

d:-)

In fact, it is quite possible that HP15C is the summit you can reach with such a display... (being able to repurpose a 12C with a 15C LE firmware would be very nice, in fact).

[d b]

(11-25-2015 10:22 PM)ElectroDuende Wrote:  ........." it is quite possible that HP15C is the summit you can reach with such a display... (being able to repurpose a 12C with a 15C LE firmware would be very nice, in fact)."

Additionally: Not that it would be used that often, but there would be room for more than the standard 448 bytes of memory. If I read it right there could be four times that or more open for programs & data.

[Katie Wasserman]

(11-25-2015 11:52 PM)Den Belillo (Martinez Ca.) Wrote:  Additionally: Not that it would be used that often, but there would be room for more than the standard 448 bytes of memory. If I read it right there could be four times that or more open for programs & data.

Actually, much more than that. The processor in the latest 12C has the same amount of flash, 128K, as the previous one but 32K of SRAM vs 6K for the previous one.

[walter b]

Ok, so you can hack more lines of kryptic key codes in it than in the 15C - but wasn't that programming paradigm outdated in the Eighties already? The Pioneers featured much better readable programs due to their advanced displays. We can return to the crucial role of the displays as often as you like.

d:-I

[jebem]

(11-22-2015 08:04 PM)Dwight Sturrock Wrote:  

(11-22-2015 05:03 PM)Katie Wasserman Wrote:  You can confirm if you have the latest Atmel chip by checking the firmware date as follows:
Hold down <g> + <ENTER> when turning on the calculator.
You'll see the "1.L 2.C, 3.H" menu
press <2>
You'll see the checksum
press <ENTER>
You'll see the firmware date as YYYY-MM-DD
If it's in 2015, you have the new Atmel version. My sample is 2015-01-30.

For my 2015, 22nd week 12C, I get a firmware date of 2012-04-03. 

I just received my HP-12C 30th AE, new in the box (well, not anymore...).

I know I'm late to this show, but better late than never.
This uses the previous Atmel AT91SAM7L128 (ARM7TDMI) SoC.
I'm impressed at the speed of this beast!

Vital data:
P/N: NW258AA#B1S
S/N: CNA13204TC (2011 week 32)
F/W: 2009-07-02

[matthiaspaul]

The good news about the new 12C is that HP hasn't abandoned the 12C - apparently it is still a market where they can make some profit despite all this "calculators are dead", although keeping the 12C alive might also have to do with keeping the "HP calculator fire" burning at all until technically newer products might have earned some reputation somewhen in the future (potential professional-level Prime successors with userRPL? ;-).

Perhaps more interesting for us is the fact that HP hasn't given up on flashability in calculators of this class although (given enough volume) mask-programmed chips are cheaper and for a product as mature as the 12C flashability certainly isn't important. So, either the 12C's sales volume is too low for mask-programming already, or they couldn't trust their quality management (bugs in the firmware would kill the long earned reputation), or they deliberately did this to have a repurposeable platform in this range (hardy only for us, but they might hope for special customers of customized products).

The real question is if HP will bring out a HP 30b replacement with somewhat improved specs (slightly more RAM, flash, and pixels), and will it be reprogrammable as well? If so, they couldn't use the ATSAM4LC2CA, as this controller doesn't have enough I/Os to drive a dot-matrix LC display similar or better than the 30b's display without auxilliary circuits (which would increase costs and power consumption).

Greetings,

Matthias

[Dwight Sturrock]

Spotted in the wild last night at Office Depot: a HP12C with a 7CD serial number (marked on the back of the box). So the new units are in distribution.

The difference in packaging is of the serial numbers do not start with CNA (old version), and the CNA stickers are at the top of the package, whereas the new versions the start with:

“PHA” or “9CJ” or “7CD” or “3C"

and the new ones are toward the bottom of the box near the bar code.

[rprosperi]

(11-26-2015 03:48 PM)Dwight Sturrock Wrote:  Spotted in the wild last night at Office Depot: a HP12C with a 7CD serial number (marked on the back of the box). So the new units are in distribution.

The difference in packaging is of the serial numbers do not start with CNA (old version), and the CNA stickers are at the top of the package, whereas the new versions the start with:

“PHA” or “9CJ” or “7CD” or “3C"

and the new ones are toward the bottom of the box near the bar code.

Thanks for checking and posting these details, makes it easier to be sure one is getting the very latest 35-year old machine.

[emece67]

(11-26-2015 06:21 AM)walter b Wrote:  Ok, so you can hack more lines of kryptic key codes in it than in the 15C - but wasn't that programming paradigm outdated in the Eighties already? The Pioneers featured much better readable programs due to their advanced displays. We can return to the crucial role of the displays as often as you like.

d:-I

I suppose I agree with you. Repurposing a 12C into a 15C, even into an advanced 15C, would be fun, but no rival vs. a 42S or wp34s. I think that, nowadays, the LCD is the key.

[thomas]

(11-23-2015 05:08 PM)Tim Wessman Wrote:  Hello,

There are two ways to tell the new version of the 12C or 10bII+.
[...]
By serial number:
1. NEW 10BII+ starts with “PHA”
2. NEW 12C starts with “PHA” or “9CJ” or “7CD” or “3CD”

Do the serial numbers have more meaning to them; are there different codes for models sold in different part of the world?

So does this mean that only the 12C and 10BII+ were updated. But the 12C Platinum wasn't updated?

Another question: How do the speeds of the new12C compare with the Platinum?

thomas