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Help i am a Rookie - Bubu - 03-08-2023 09:05 AM
Hallo,
I am new here and at the beginning I have a question.
I have two offers to buy an HP-Calculator on an interesting price.
An HP 29C and an HP 41 CV. Both in good condition and working.
I am not so interested in collecting things. I am also not need complex programming.
So I only want an good old calculator and that’s it is.
I found a lot of interesting information in the internet (f.e. the HP 41 CV is an Halfnut ) , but nothing in the art of a compare between Woodstock an 41.
Is there an difference in Quality or durability of both? Or is there another Difference wich mak it sence to prefer one of the both?
Most things getting worse in newer Editions that’s the reason why I want an “old” Calculator”
Thanks for your Help
Bubu
RE: Help i am a Rookie - ThomasF - 03-08-2023 02:28 PM
Hello,
You will probably get as many different suggestions as replies ...
These are two similar but still very different machines, and the reply would differ depending on what you look at, and had I to choose only one of them, I would go for the 41 (but it is not obvious).
I think the build quality was better in the Woodstock (ie. the 29C), the 41 is much more fragile (I would rather drop my 29C to the floor than the 41), so as a good "old" calculator the 29C is better.
Looking at programming possibilities the 41 is miles ahead, with alphanumeric display, opcodes ("04 STO 02") instead of keycodes ("04 33 02"), better program handling and editing, and with options of a lot of peripherals such as modules, printer, interfaces etc. Even the possibilities to program both in assembler or Forth if one would like to ...
Just for "simpler" calculations they are just as great.
Using LCD the 41 is not as battery hungry as the 29C, on the other hand the rechargeable batteries are better in the long run. Nowadays this is a different problem, since original 29C batteries are no longer available and you have to rely on building your own or buy from someone (and never ever run the 29C (connected to a charger) with no or bad batteries since it might kill the calculator in a blink of the eye). On the other hand, the nice red LED display of the 29C gives it just that good "old" calculator feeling.
Not what you want to hear, but I would go for both - but either one of them will leave you with a wonderful nice feature rich "old" calculator you wont find any more!
And should they break, there are options to refurbish them with new electronics (provided by enthusiasts on this forum) to both upgrade and keep the original functionality of the calculator.
(There are also "new" alternatives with very good quality over in Switzerland but that is another story ...)
Just my two cents ...
Cheers,
Thomas
RE: Help i am a Rookie - Dave Britten - 03-08-2023 02:31 PM
This is where I would head to the feature comparison tool on this site and start looking at which calculator better suits my needs.
https://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-bin/compare.cgi?calc1=HP-29C&calc2=HP-41CV&calc3=none&calc4=none&calc5=none&calc6=none&calc7=none&calc8=none&diff=ON
I love the Woodstocks, but the lack of %-change and linear regression on the 29C would make it a slightly tougher sell for me. The Woodstocks do generally feel sturdier than the 41C, at least to me. As long as you NEVER connect a charger to a Woodstock, I would expect trouble-free operation. Use an external battery charger ONLY.
If you still can't decide, maybe consider an 11C. Sounds like that might be close to what you want.
RE: Help i am a Rookie - vaklaff - 03-08-2023 07:51 PM
There’s no bad answer to you dilemma. Given your expected usage I’d vote for the 29C. If one day you start thinking about the 41 series, you might be satisfied by the remake made by SwissMicros - not “good old” but “good new” and some advantages on top.
Welcome and good luck!
RE: Help i am a Rookie - cortopar - 03-09-2023 11:58 PM
There are a lot more working 41s than Woodstock. If you just want a calculator, any 41C, CV, or CX will be fine. Full nut/half nut is generally irrelevant if you don’t disassemble them. The Woodstock is a better form factor, and the LEDs are retro cool, but many of them have been fried by people trying to “test” them with an AC adapter and no or dead batteries.
Panamatik makes a replacement PCB for fried Woodstocks, so that’s a good option.
For day to day non-scientific number crunching, very little beats a 12C or 17bii.
A 41X from Swiss Micro is awesome, but the benefits are mostly for those who want to explore the vast library of software modules/ROMs, or write their own code for the 41 series.
Old HP calcs aren’t cheap, but they’re not unobtanium either. Buy one or a dozen, and play around to see what you enjoy most.
RE: Help i am a Rookie - aurelio - 03-10-2023 05:31 PM
Hi Bubu, if I understand you are not going to collect calculators and then to invest (which means spending a lot of money) in further purchases ... So choose the 41: you would get in terms of performance something more, compared to the oldest lovely LED calculator, without the risk of falling into temptation in front of a whole world of accessories available for this little computer: a fascinating way to thin the wallet of every collector nowadays
sigh!
RE: Help i am a Rookie - Jurgen Keller - 03-10-2023 06:15 PM
(03-08-2023 09:05 AM)Bubu Wrote: So I only want an good old calculator and that’s it is.
That's also what I thought when I revived mv 41C 20 years or so ago. It worked out very differently!
I like both, the 29C and (of course) the HP-41s a lot. There are strong pros for each of them. The Woodstocks are very handy and robust calculators and LED displays are nice anyway. However, the HP-41s have so many things to explore, it's just an amazing machine. My advise is to take both and use them in turn.
RE: Help i am a Rookie - AndiGer - 03-10-2023 08:58 PM
As you say
I have two offers to buy an HP-Calculator on an interesting price.
If you can afford: Take both. You won‘t regret
Andi
RE: Help i am a Rookie - Maximilian Hohmann - 03-11-2023 03:27 PM
Hello,
if I wouldn't already have one, I'd be ready to trade three HP-41s (one each of 41C, CV and CX) for a single working 29C in good shape. Both for collecting and for daily use. Soon there will be no 29s left, but 41s are in plentiful supply.
Regards
Max
RE: Help i am a Rookie - John Garza (3665) - 03-11-2023 10:13 PM
I agree with Max. If you have the chance to get a 29C in good shape, get it now. You can always pick up a 41C on the cheap later. It's a matter of diminishing supply. All those 'non-calculator folks' that find an old Woodstock in storage can't resist the urge to plug it in and see if it works - which fries it.
RE: Help i am a Rookie - Siegfried - 03-12-2023 07:37 AM
(03-08-2023 02:31 PM)Dave Britten Wrote: The Woodstocks do generally feel sturdier than the 41C, at least to me. As long as you NEVER connect a charger to a Woodstock, I would expect trouble-free operation. Use an external battery charger ONLY.
Is there any modern replacement available? Original external chargers are probably even harder to find than working Woodstocks, even more so for the 19C (for which I assume this advice to be valid as well).
Can the danger of the original chargers be overcome by replacing them with a regulated voltage supply?
RE: Help i am a Rookie - Steve Simpkin - 03-12-2023 07:50 AM
(03-12-2023 07:37 AM)Siegfried Wrote:(03-08-2023 02:31 PM)Dave Britten Wrote: The Woodstocks do generally feel sturdier than the 41C, at least to me. As long as you NEVER connect a charger to a Woodstock, I would expect trouble-free operation. Use an external battery charger ONLY.
Is there any modern replacement available? Original external chargers are probably even harder to find than working Woodstocks, even more so for the 19C (for which I assume this advice to be valid as well).
Can the danger of the original chargers be overcome by replacing them with a regulated voltage supply?
You can pull the batteries out of the pack and charge them in an external AA battery charger.
Replacing the original charger with a regulated power source might be safer but any “safe” voltage would not charge the batteries.
RE: Help i am a Rookie - Maximilian Hohmann - 03-12-2023 10:13 AM
Hello!
(03-12-2023 07:37 AM)Siegfried Wrote: Can the danger of the original chargers be overcome by replacing them with a regulated voltage supply?
Yes of course! A regulated voltage supply set to anything between 2.5 and 3.0V can be used safely with or without a battery in place. When you connect it via the charging port you need to add 0.6V because of the single-diode rectifier inside the calculator. Connecting it that way to something like 3.2V is safe and the diode will protect the calcultor against reverse polarity. Connecting the power supply directly to the battery connectors requires extra care because getting the polarity wrong will kill the calculator in an instant.
Regards
Max
RE: Help i am a Rookie - vaklaff - 03-12-2023 08:18 PM
Two more Woodstock battery tips, possibly interesting to new owners:
The external battery chargers are indeed rare but one can use another already broken Woodstock for the same purpose. Broken Woodstocks still can be bought cheaply, with some luck.
You can 3D-print or buy a battery holder that fits Woodstocks and accommodates ordinary disposable alkaline batteries. For example thecalculatorstore.com sells such holders.
RE: Help i am a Rookie - John Garza (3665) - 03-13-2023 05:59 PM
I find the easiest thing to do is cut out the center plastic bar in the battery pack. Then you can pop out the old cells - swab the area with alcohol to remove any chem deposits from decaying batteries, maybe replace the dual spring if it's corroded, then you can just put in single AA NiCd cells. When it's time to recharge, pop them out and use a standard AA cell recharger. Mark the + and - sides of the battery pack as a quick reminder when loading new cells.