HP41CL Extreme Functions Install

[haweskg1]

So I'm new to all of this and apologize if this is too basic of a question but I cannot find the answer anywhere.

Question is: If I already have the standard extra functions, YFNZ loaded PLUG1L, and want to load the extreme functions, YFNX can I just load them with the PLUG1L again or do I have to remove batteries and start over again with the process outlined in the manual? Reason I ask is that I already have Library 4 loaded with SM44 along with the advantage ROM.

Related question: does the SM44 do everything that the ADVG does, making it redundant?

Thanks in advance,
K. Hawes

[Monte Dalrymple]

(08-27-2019 02:38 PM)haweskg1 Wrote:  So I'm new to all of this and apologize if this is too basic of a question but I cannot find the answer anywhere.

Question is: If I already have the standard extra functions, YFNZ loaded PLUG1L, and want to load the extreme functions, YFNX can I just load them with the PLUG1L again or do I have to remove batteries and start over again with the process outlined in the manual? Reason I ask is that I already have Library 4 loaded with SM44 along with the advantage ROM.

Related question: does the SM44 do everything that the ADVG does, making it redundant?

Thanks in advance,
K. Hawes

MMUDIS
"YFNX" PLUG1L
MMUEN

Only one of them should be installed at a time. You need to disable the MMU before the change because otherwise the machine will get confused during the PLUG1L function, because the YFNZ code will no longer be there to finish up the function.

I'm not sure about the SM44 question. I haven't used it.

[Ángel Martin]

(08-27-2019 02:38 PM)haweskg1 Wrote:  Related question: does the SM44 do everything that the ADVG does, making it redundant?

The SandMath is entirely different from the 41Advantage, I suggest you check the manuals for a detailed description. What I can tell you is that the Matrix functions are in the SandMatrix (4MTI), not in the SandMath. If you plug both you'll have a super-set of the ADVT in every respect.

http://www.systemyde.com/hp41/documents.html

[haweskg1]

Thanks for the response Monte,
I'm thoroughly enjoying the exploration of the transformed calculator.
Tremendous amount of work that you have done there......any more boards left?

Thanks for the response Angel,
To be clear, if I load the SM44 and 4MTI I really don't need the ADVG module?
I started to read the manual for the SM44.....there is a lot to absorb!!!
It truly is a fantastic set of programs/functions you have put together!

By chance, do you have anymore overlays available for the SandMath?

Thanks very much to both of you gentleman for taking the time to answer
my questions, it is very much appreciated.

K. Hawes

[burkhard]

Hmmm... Has any thought ever been given to just deprecating YFNZ and making YFNX the default?

I ask because I find the juggling mentioned above a bit of a hassle (and confusing for beginners) when I need to do it.

It seems that just about anybody wanting to do a 41CL would want the full YFNX (which some of ÁM's module require) anyhow. Aren't we all starting things up on YFNZ and then immediately replacing with YFNX? Why have YFNZ at all anymore?

Also, the UI for YFNX (e.g. having prompts for a single PLUG command instead of PLUG1L, PLUG1H, &c.) is a lot nicer also. Those times when I am back in YFNZ (briefly) I am always lamenting the different command syntax.

Rest assured, no complaints here, just trying to give a non-superuser's perspective on how things might (maybe, perhaps) be improved and simplified a bit for beginners without giving up any power.

Thanks again Monte and collaborators for the great product!

[Monte Dalrymple]

(08-29-2019 12:06 PM)haweskg1 Wrote:  Tremendous amount of work that you have done there......any more boards left?

K. Hawes

I have 16 boards left.

[Sylvain Cote]

(08-29-2019 06:03 PM)Monte Dalrymple Wrote:  

(08-29-2019 12:06 PM)haweskg1 Wrote:  Tremendous amount of work that you have done there......any more boards left?

I have 16 boards left.

Arrgg, the last 16 boards, my current struggle is: do I buy another one or not!

[Monte Dalrymple]

(08-29-2019 02:16 PM)burkhard Wrote:  Hmmm... Has any thought ever been given to just deprecating YFNZ and making YFNX the default?

I ask because I find the juggling mentioned above a bit of a hassle (and confusing for beginners) when I need to do it.

It seems that just about anybody wanting to do a 41CL would want the full YFNX (which some of ÁM's module require) anyhow. Aren't we all starting things up on YFNZ and then immediately replacing with YFNX? Why have YFNZ at all anymore?

Also, the UI for YFNX (e.g. having prompts for a single PLUG command instead of PLUG1L, PLUG1H, &c.) is a lot nicer also. Those times when I am back in YFNZ (briefly) I am always lamenting the different command syntax.

Rest assured, no complaints here, just trying to give a non-superuser's perspective on how things might (maybe, perhaps) be improved and simplified a bit for beginners without giving up any power.

Thanks again Monte and collaborators for the great product!

YFNZ is a 4k image in the OS sector. It will always be available, even if you manage to erase the rest of the Flash contents. YFNX requires 8k. While it would be possible to replace the YFNZ image (plus one other) in the OS sector, I don't really want to do that because of all the side effects. Documentation, returned boards because the update of the OS sector went wrong, two separate versions of YFNX because the location of YLIB is hard-coded in the image, to name a few.

I recognize that YFNZ is sub-optimal. It was my very first attempt at mcode, and there are a number of things that I should have done differently. That said, it does all that it needs to for beginners with the 41CL, while protecting them somewhat from inadvertent mistakes. With YFNX there is both more and less protection. For example, with YFNZ you cannot write to Flash without some involved steps. With YFNX you can directly poke bytes into Flash if you want. But YFNX still protects the OS sector of Flash as much as possible. It's a trade-off. Given my experiences with first-time users, I think that limiting them to YFNZ at the start is still the best choice. (But I could be wrong.)

Monte

[Sylvain Cote]

(08-29-2019 06:19 PM)Monte Dalrymple Wrote:  I think that limiting them to YFNZ at the start is still the best choice.

I agree!

[burkhard]

Thanks for the kind response, Monte. I of course defer to your expertise in all this—was just checking to see if there remained some real reasons for keeping YFNZ around still :-)

[Ángel Martin]

(08-29-2019 07:03 PM)Sylvain Cote Wrote:  

(08-29-2019 06:19 PM)Monte Dalrymple Wrote:  I think that limiting them to YFNZ at the start is still the best choice.

I agree!

Same here, it may be a small annoyance but it's good to have a safe fallback in case of trouble.

[grsbanks]

(08-29-2019 06:03 PM)Monte Dalrymple Wrote:  I have 16 boards left.

Are these the last 16 *ever* or just the last 16 in the latest batch?

[Monte Dalrymple]

(08-30-2019 07:30 AM)grsbanks Wrote:  

(08-29-2019 06:03 PM)Monte Dalrymple Wrote:  I have 16 boards left.

Are these the last 16 *ever* or just the last 16 in the latest batch?

At this point every batch is potentially the last. Several components are getting difficult to find.

[grsbanks]

Hmm... I'll have to seriously consider getting another one just in case the one I have already gives up the ghost.